Route Code for London Metro Services

[hkstudent]

Often it's quite a confusion when looking for trains at the second or third on display board, to know where the train is exactly going as there would be multiple routes to get there.

For example a Waterloo East to Dartford service can go via both Bexleyheath or Sidcup.
Or a Waterloo to Shepperton service to go via Richmond or Kingston.

Why wouldn't UK TOCs learn from German S Bahn or those rail operators in Japan (e.g. JR EAST in Tokyo metro area) to alphabet code / alphabet+number coding the lines for better recognision? Like S1, S2, R1, RE1, REX1 / YM, KY, JO, etc

Image attched: display showing all services that are going to Dartford but not mentioning via routing

 

[PGAT]

Dartford via Bexleyheath should do the trick

 

[JonathanH]

Why wouldn't UK TOCs learn from German S Bahn or those rail operators in Japan (e.g. JR EAST in Tokyo metro area) to alphabet code / alphabet+number coding the lines for better recognision? Like S1, S2, R1, RE1, REX1 / YM, KY, JO, etc

They used to have route numbers, but such things fell away in usage.

 

[Bletchleyite]

For it to work well you also need consistent calling patterns, which the UK often lacks.

 

[Farigiraf]

Often it's quite a confusion when looking for trains at the second or third on display board, to know where the train is exactly going as there would be multiple routes to get there.

For example a Waterloo East to Dartford service can go via both Bexleyheath or Sidcup.
Or a Waterloo to Shepperton service to go via Richmond or Kingston.

Why wouldn't UK TOCs learn from German S Bahn or those rail operators in Japan (e.g. JR EAST in Tokyo metro area) to alphabet code / alphabet+number coding the lines for better recognision? Like S1, S2, R1, RE1, REX1 / YM, KY, JO, etc

Image attched: display showing all services that are going to Dartford but not mentioning via routing

Left departure board displays 'Dartford via Bexleyheath', and Hayes via Catford Bridge, so it's in their system and it's just a matter of installing that on the main departure board too.

 

[30907]

Left departure board displays 'Dartford via Bexleyheath', and Hayes via Catford Bridge, so it's in their system and it's just a matter of installing that on the main departure board too.

...but showing the calling points is important - more important for casual users I would have thought.
Does the average forum member know the difference between Bexley and Bexleyheath...?

 

[Farigiraf]

...but showing the calling points is important - more important for casual users I would have thought.

But most commuters (which the Southeastern 'metro' is mostly for) would know where they are going and would know if their station is 'via Bexleyheath' or Sidcup, Woolwich etc., so it would be better than waiting for the painfully slow departure board to read out which line it'll be calling on

Does the average forum member know the difference between Bexley and Bexleyheath...?

One is a London borough while the other is an urban town. Not to say it isn't confusing (I am a victim of quickly seeing 'Bexley' on the departure board and jumping on the train before it's revealed to be Bexleyheath).

 

[Basil Jet]

Not to say it isn't confusing (I am a victim of quickly seeing 'Bexley' on the departure board and jumping on the train before it's revealed to be Bexleyheath).

They should use Welling instead of Bexleyheath, for that reason. (Hang on, that sounds a bit like Welwyn).

 

[Sad Sprinter]

I think route codes are only really needed in South London and even then, the best thing to do first would be to build/improve infrastructure to get more frequent services and simplified service patterns across the multitude of routes sprawling South London before rebranding the services as anything. Hence why I'm an advocate of the "Turning South London Orange" plan which would expand the Overground south of the river, but with new works to improve connectivity and frequencies.

 

[30907]

But most commuters (which the Southeastern 'metro' is mostly for) would know where they are going and would know if their station is 'via Bexleyheath' or Sidcup, Woolwich etc., so it would be better than waiting for the painfully slow departure board to read out which line it'll be calling on

Most commuters know their train time too

One is a London borough while the other is an urban town.

....in the same borough!
In the railway context, though, Bexley is a station serving a small part of the borough, which has 12 stations (including 2 on the boundary).

 

[Farigiraf]

I think route codes are only really needed in South London and even then, the best thing to do first would be to build/improve infrastructure to get more frequent services and simplified service patterns across the multitude of routes sprawling South London before rebranding the services as anything. Hence why I'm an advocate of the "Turning South London Orange" plan which would expand the Overground south of the river, but with new works to improve connectivity and frequencies.

London is definitely ripe for suburban rail integration, the Overground, Elizabeth Line, Thameslink (Core, Rainham & Sutton), Southeastern, Southern and SWR (Plus the GA lea valleys which should all have been Overground + the disappointment that is chiltern London local services) all should be combined into a London RER/S-Bahn, with route codes (not silly line names like the tube) and proper scheduling. We'll get HS2 2A & 2B & 2C which extends to Westminster/Holyrood before this all happens though.

I've found this old thread which depicts what London really needs to be (and that despite nostalgia for the tube map, german maps look better). https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...il-and-thameslink-as-an-s-bahn-system.158537/

 

[Sad Sprinter]

London is definitely ripe for suburban rail integration, the Overground, Elizabeth Line, Thameslink (Core, Rainham & Sutton), Southeastern, Southern and SWR (Plus the GA lea valleys which should all have been Overground + the disappointment that is chiltern London local services) all should be combined into a London RER/S-Bahn, with route codes (not silly line names like the tube) and proper scheduling. We'll get HS2 2A & 2B & 2C which extends to Westminster/Holyrood before this all happens though.

I've found this old thread which depicts what London really needs to be (and that despite nostalgia for the tube map, german maps look better). https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...il-and-thameslink-as-an-s-bahn-system.158537/

Surely we did have the German system? It was just called Network SouthEast

I think it's certainly a more English thing to name everything. I think that's common with the Japanese railways too. Network SouthEast of course had flowery names for their subeditors: South London Lines, Anglia Electrics and Kent Link are good examples.

Plus, I think in London we've kind of got used to the Overground as part of the cultural fabric of the city, it would be a shame to lose it.

 

[eldomtom2]

I think that's common with the Japanese railways too.

The Japanese go much farther than the British do - in Japan every single line and express has its own name. Also present in Japan but not in Britain is the idea that a service can change lines and service types along its journey.
For an example of how the Japanese would do it, I've taken the example of the TL6 service between Cambridge and Brighton from this Thameslink map - the Japanese would name this service as follows:

• Cambridge to Hitchin: Cambridge-Hitchin Line Rapid
• Hitchin-Finsbury Park: East Coast Main Line Rapid
• Finsbury Park-London Bridge: Thameslink Line Local
• London Bridge-Brighton: Brighton Main Line Rapid

You decide whether this improves wayfinding or not. Compare with the Central European method of giving each service its own number that stays the same for the entire journey.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

The Japanese go much farther than the British do - in Japan every single line and express has its own name. Also present in Japan but not in Britain is the idea that a service can change lines and service types along its journey.
For an example of how the Japanese would do it, I've taken the example of the TL6 service between Cambridge and Brighton from this Thameslink map - the Japanese would name this service as follows:

• Cambridge to Hitchin: Cambridge-Hitchin Line Rapid
• Hitchin-Finsbury Park: East Coast Main Line Rapid
• Finsbury Park-London Bridge: Thameslink Line Local
• London Bridge-Brighton: Brighton Main Line Rapid

You decide whether this improves wayfinding or not. Compare with the Central European method of giving each service its own number that stays the same for the entire journey.

That's like how the NYC subway does it "Broadway Express/6 Avenue Local" etc. For Thameslink such a naming system makes sense.

 

[miklcct]

They used to have route numbers, but such things fell away in usage.

The Southern route codes should simply be revived, with 2-digit codes for the route and 4-digit train number for reservable services (where the initial 2 digits are the route code)

...but showing the calling points is important - more important for casual users I would have thought.
Does the average forum member know the difference between Bexley and Bexleyheath...?

The calling points are not important because trains have fixed calling pattern. For example, standing at West Hampstead, if the train shows Clapham Junction it will stop at Kensington Olympia, no questions asked.

I think route codes are only really needed in South London and even then, the best thing to do first would be to build/improve infrastructure to get more frequent services and simplified service patterns across the multitude of routes sprawling South London before rebranding the services as anything. Hence why I'm an advocate of the "Turning South London Orange" plan which would expand the Overground south of the river, but with new works to improve connectivity and frequencies.

I think that route codes are needed for all services such that it is easier to recognise trains wherever I am.

 

[TommyL4]

The Japanese go much farther than the British do - in Japan every single line and express has its own name. Also present in Japan but not in Britain is the idea that a service can change lines and service types along its journey.
For an example of how the Japanese would do it, I've taken the example of the TL6 service between Cambridge and Brighton from this Thameslink map - the Japanese would name this service as follows:

• Cambridge to Hitchin: Cambridge-Hitchin Line Rapid
• Hitchin-Finsbury Park: East Coast Main Line Rapid
• Finsbury Park-London Bridge: Thameslink Line Local
• London Bridge-Brighton: Brighton Main Line Rapid

You decide whether this improves wayfinding or not. Compare with the Central European method of giving each service its own number that stays the same for the entire journey.

To be fair, different from many other services, Thameslink is very similar to the Shonan-Shinjuku Line or the Ueno-Tokyo Line: through services via central London/Tokyo that connect two (or more) distinct lines in different parts of the network, and simply calling it "Thameslink", or something like "southbound Thameslink service to Brighton via the Brighton Main Line" would better resemble the JR system, at least in the Tokyo area.

 

[eldomtom2]

To be fair, different from many other services, Thameslink is very similar to the Shonan-Shinjuku Line or the Ueno-Tokyo Line: through services via central London/Tokyo that connect two (or more) distinct lines in different parts of the network, and simply calling it "Thameslink", or something like "southbound Thameslink service to Brighton via the Brighton Main Line" would better resemble the JR system, at least in the Tokyo area.

The cross-city centre line is very common in Japan - there must be a least a dozen in Tokyo alone - and the various different companies all have various different means of referring to through-running services.

 

[telstarbox]

Some of these services only run half hourly so passengers don't turn up and go but will aim for a specific train. On the footbridge at Waterloo East and on the concourse at London Bridge there are "next train to..." screens for the most common destinations with more frequent services.