Route that goes round loop twice - is this unique?

[gingerheid]

Because of a strange confluence of historical reasons (and because public transport in the UK is alwaysa bit half baked and on the cheap) the Stagecoach 8A route in Cambridge has been amended so that it goes round a complete circle in a housing estate twice at one end of the route, in the same direction. Is this unique?

The background is that the service was created to add additional services around the Orchard Park end of the guided busway. Guided buses were arriving in Orchard Park full, and were being held up serving stops on Histon Rd where the alternative stopping route from Cottenham / Histon / Impington had been cut back after being undermined by... the guided busway services.

A new route was created to serve Orchard Park and the stops on Histon Rd by doing a single loop around Orchard Park, and it's since been amended to serve another estate (Buchan St) that hasn't had services for a few years.

However:

- Double deckers on the guided busway would have solved the problem, but can't be used on the Orchard Park branch because these are the services that go under the low bridge on the southern guideway
- Short services on the guided busway would have been ideal, but there's nowhere local for them to get off the busway and turn round. Creating a turning circle at the junction between the two branches of the busway would of course have had a cost
- King's Hedges Road used to be a rural country road with little more than a bus depot where one of the housing estates is now, and development around it has been piecemeal. There's no pavement on the north side of King's Hedges Road, and the guided busway being in the way now prevents adding a pavement or bus stops there.
- They have used the existing stops from a pre guided busway service in Orchard Park that did a loop with stops on only one side of the road, presumably as they don't want to add any more on the other side of the road for a new and perhaps expiremental service
- There was previously a bus gate in Walnut Tree Way that could have let the service get to stops (that are still in place but unused) in another estate south of King's Hedges Road, but it's been blocked off since that service was abandoned years ago

We're therefore left with quite a strange service, but... it works (unless you're in King's Meadows, then it's all just a bit of a shame. You have a several bus routes that pass within about 200m of the entire estate, but the nearest stops aren't very close! There's one unused stop in Howgate Rd that is a 5m walk from an unmarked school bus stop where service buses don't stop because there's no equivalent stop on the other side of the road, and that's a 10 min walk from the nearest currently used bus stop.)

 

[Citistar]

Given that there are only a couple of stops around the loop, would there be anything to stop buses from Cambridge turning in to Circus Drive, then doing Chieftan Way to terminate at Kings Hedges Rbt, then doing the reverse on the return?

 

[gingerheid]

That's what I assumed they'd do when they announced the changes. I assume they didn't want to either add extra stops on the other side of the road / try and keep people on the bus past their stop.

In fact two of the stops are steps from each other, so it could be better if they'd just move one sign across the road!

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Because of a strange confluence of historical reasons (and because public transport in the UK is alwaysa bit half baked and on the cheap) the Stagecoach 8A route in Cambridge has been amended so that it goes round a complete circle in a housing estate twice at one end of the route, in the same direction. Is this unique?

The 583 (Leigh-Tyldsley) is supposed to (sometimes cut with no notice when delayed) loop around the town centre twice before and after running through the houses and past the train stations. It's a bit of a mess in the timetable data as it doesn't seem to like the multiple calling at one stop.
It also calls at both stop B and A when coming back from Tyldesley, but doesn't re-trace the same road (and no bus stops) til after running past the train stations.

 

[Simon75]

X51 Cannock to Birmingham loops round Walsall Town centre bus station

 

[markymark2000]

Stagecoach 119 in Manchester does a loop twice it basically finishes at the last stop on the loop but then turns left and starts the loop again from the first stop and goes back into Manchester.

I'm not near a computer to do nice graphics but let's say, A-B-C, B-C-A

 

[01d-and]

Not sure if it is supposed to but I have travelled on Stagecoaches X19 between Stratford and Redditch and on more than one occasion the bus has done two loops around the housing estate to the north of the town.

 

[fgwrich]

Because of the nature of the town, most services in Basingstoke do a loop around the town - One in particular has a loop at either end (the 6 from Town Centre - Houndmills - Winklebury - Houndmills - Town Centre - South View - Oakridge - East Popley - Oakridge - South View - Town Centre).

 

[northwichcat]

Normally in instances like this a bus would terminate but passengers could stay on beyond the terminus for subsequent stops.

For example, the withdrawn 300 Knutsford circular went Canute Place to Knutsford station to Longridge to Knutsford station to Knutsford bus station to Canute Place. So in theory you couldn't do Knutsford bus station to Longridge. But in practice you could get on at Knutsford bus station and remain on the bus at Canute Place. So it prevented the bus from looping around the one way streets to and from the bus station twice.

 

[Statto]

Befree the timetable was altered September 2022, the Stagecoach MCSL 41, 42 (Mill Park-Woodchurch) did a loop at both ends of the route, 41, 42 was effectively a circular route between Bromborough Allport Road & Mill Park, but 41, 42 operated a one way loop around Woodchurch.

However due to no slack in the timetable, main issue was reliability you could often get the 41, 42 running in pairs, or 3s, so last September Stagecoach altered the Woodchurch end of the route that it went to & from Arrowe Park Hospital & now they have a layover between trips at the Hospital.

Here's the 41, 42 timetable from when they had a loop at both ends of the route

Wirral 41 011121.pdf

drive.google.com

 

[Dai Corner]

I was going to cite the 11A and 11C in Birmingham, but the public timetable suggests buses no longer go all the way round.

Anyone know the actual workings?

 

[PTR 444]

Southern Vectis route 6 westbound loops over itself to serve Bannock Road and High Street in Whitwell, meaning the first stop on Kemming Road after Ventnor Road is served twice. In previous years, the bus carried straight on and turned into Bannock Road further up (as shown on attached map), the reverse of which the eastbound route still does today. I’m not sure why the Westbound route was looped over in the first place though.

 

[WM Bus]

I was going to cite the 11A and 11C in Birmingham, but the public timetable suggests buses no longer go all the way round.

Anyone know the actual workings?

Yes it runs as:
11A/11C Acocks Green to Perry Barr via Stechford, Fox & Goose, Erdington. East Side. With 1 afternoon 11S working also.
11A/11C Acocks Green to Erdington via Kings Heath, Selly Oak, Harborne, City Hospital, Handsworth, Perry Barr, Erdington. West Side.
With a crossover on the section between Erdington and Perry Barr. Meaning that section now recieves double the frequency.
But it doesn't do 2 loops anywhere I don't think?

The probably less well known Inner Circle 8 route still does a full loop in both directions.

 

[AB93]

Southern Vectis route 6 westbound loops over itself to serve Bannock Road and High Street in Whitwell... I’m not sure why the Westbound route was looped over in the first place though.

Issues with the old Newport-bound 'Nettlecombe Lane' stop basically being in someone's front garden, and lack of suitable alternative location to re-locate it.

 

[Magdalia]

I grew up near here, and can remember when it was (nearly) all fields! Here is an incomplete history of the last 50 years.

King's Hedges Road used to be a rural country road

Kings Hedges Road ended when it reached the railway line. There was then a gated crossing over the railway line with a farm track the other side that ended where it met the Mere Way Roman Road to Landbeach.

Arbury Road went straight through from St Laurence school to Histon Road. The allotments extended all the way from Histon Road to St Albans Road rec. The City boundary was (and I think still is?) just beyond St Laurence School, and it was the last bit of Arbury Road, next to the allotments, that was a country lane.

The area between the railway line and Arbury Road was mostly fields, apart from a bit of housing close to Campkin Road. If I remember correctly the Northern By Pass (now the A14) was built first. Then came what we used to call the periphery road, which joined up the end of Kings Hedges Road with Arbury Road near the St Laurence School, and then took the line of Arbury Road through to Histon Road. Building houses on the land within the periphery road then proceeded at some pace.

In those days the Arbury bus service was the 185/186, the predecessor of today's route 1. The northern terminus was in St Kilda Avenue.

it's since been amended to serve another estate (Buchan St) that hasn't had services for a few years.

When the Buchan Street estate was built the 185/186 ran along Kings Hedges Road and terminated there. Buchan Street fell out of use when Northfields Road, which had previously been a dead end near the Kings Hedges Primary School, was extended through to Kings Hedges Road. From then on the buses terminated at the Kilmaine Close stop, going back towards the City on Northfields Avenue.

There was previously a bus gate in Walnut Tree Way that could have let the service get to stops (that are still in place but unused) in another estate south of King's Hedges Road, but it's been blocked off since that service was abandoned years ago

We're therefore left with quite a strange service, but... it works (unless you're in King's Meadows, then it's all just a bit of a shame. You have a several bus routes that pass within about 200m of the entire estate, but the nearest stops aren't very close! There's one unused stop in Howgate Rd that is a 5m walk

Walnut Tree Way and Howgate Road are on what used to be the allotments. 30 years ago allotment land was given up for housing, now there is a long waiting list for allotments. I've never heard it called Kings Meadow before.

Double deckers on the guided busway would have solved the problem, but can't be used on the Orchard Park branch because these are the services that go under the low bridge on the southern guideway

That applies now, but has only been the case since the pandemic. Prior to the pandemic busway route A to Trumpington with the single deckers ran via Milton Road, and non-stop between the Science Park and New Square. Busway route B ran via Orchard Park and Histon Road, terminating at Drummer Street, and those were double deckers. I'm not sure what prompted the switch, but it may have been to do with the County Council moving out of the Old Shire hall at the top of Castle Hill.

Stagecoach 8A route in Cambridge has been amended so that it goes round a complete circle in a housing estate twice at one end of the route, in the same direction.

Stagecoach in Cambridge do have form with this sort of thing. Until about a year ago route 25 was a figure of eight with both directions of the route travelling along Hobson Avenue and Lime Avenue in the same direction.

 

[Dr_Paul]

In London, the northbound G1 does a circuit of St George's Hospital in Tooting, but doesn't stop at any stops more than once. To confuse matters, the southbound G1 stops at the same stops as the northbound route on the circuit.

The southbound 265 manages to stop twice at the same stop in Roehampton, stop M on this map. It comes up Roehampton Lane, calls at stop M, then does a circuit of the Alton estate, then turns left into Roehampton Lane (facing north), then loops around an island at the junction with Medfield Street, and calls at stop M again. I was waiting for an 85 at that stop and wondered why the 265 that had stopped there a few minutes previously had stopped there again.

 

[Ianigsy]

The Keighley-Hebden Bridge B3 does a loop down from the main road to serve the middle of Oxenhope village.

A journey can easily be combined with a trip on the Keighley-Ilkley 62, which almost does a complete loop to serve the top end of Silsden.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

If I'm following you correctly, Team Pennine "Denby Darts" route D1 may qualify. Towards Denby Dale, it does an anti-clockwise loop around Scissett and Clayton West. On the return towards Huddersfield it does the same loop in the same direction. Previous iterations of the route have varied which way around the loop they go based on whether they're outbound or inbound, and sometimes (seemingly) on what time of day it was or whether the cows in the local fields were standing up or laying down.

 

[Paperyostrich]

Not entirely sure if this counts, but on its return to Yeovil, Buses of Somerset route 54 goes to Somerton Square before leaving the town meaning the stops of Behind Berry and Lynch House are served twice within a 5 minute period

 

[Taunton]

Bit of a different situation, but at Los Angeles airport, where all the terminals are arranged round a loop road, there are minibus operations to various suburban points. These are infuriating, they go around picking up at all terminals, and then go round again ... and again. It takes them about 5-10 minutes each time, the circuit being about a mile, depending on whether there are any passengers waiting, before they finally go off to their destination. The airport authority does not allow them to wait anywhere, but is apparently powerless without a court case to stop the congestion caused by them going repeatedly round. You would think a frequent service was being provided to each of their various destinations, before realising it's the same vehicles going round and round.

 

[gingerheid]

The City boundary was (and I think still is?) just beyond St Laurence School, and it was the last bit of Arbury Road, next to the allotments, that was a country lane.

Sadly the city boundary has never been updated, resulting in people being in random places based on history. Here in Orchard Park we're Cambourne for the Council or Ely for the MP, it's hard to register with doctors as the village that we're supposedly in correctly recognises that were more the built up area of Cambridge, we can't book the Meadows Community centre as that's Cambridge, and today we got yet another batch of political literature for the wrong consituency...

Walnut Tree Way and Howgate Road are on what used to be the allotments. 30 years ago allotment land was given up for housing, now there is a long waiting list for allotments. I've never heard it called Kings Meadow before.

There's a sign advertising it as such, and it seems to known that way for parish council purposes.

Stagecoach in Cambridge do have form with this sort of thing. Until about a year ago route 25 was a figure of eight with both directions of the route travelling along Hobson Avenue and Lime Avenue in the same direction.

I'd forgotten about this!

 

[Martin2012]

The short lived 47 route between Bristol and Yate that was introduced in October last year and withdrawn back in April did the same loop from Yate Bus Station to the Brimsham Park area and back again twice in quick succesion. Once at the end of the trip from Bristol and then again at the start of the next trip from Yate back to Bristol.

The 525 route that replaced it has buses doing the loop in one direction on journeys towards Yate and in the other direction on journeys towards Emersons Green.

 

[lloyd.penfold@]

Going back a few decades, when Midland Red 'accelerated' the X96 Birmingham - Shrewsbury, it looped Telford new town the same way in both directions. Everyone asked for a destination in those days (OAP passes just gave discounts, not free rides!) and I never had anyone ask for somewhere I'd just come from!

 

[WibbleWobble]

The 583 (Leigh-Tyldsley) is supposed to (sometimes cut with no notice when delayed) loop around the town centre twice before and after running through the houses and past the train stations. It's a bit of a mess in the timetable data as it doesn't seem to like the multiple calling at one stop.
It also calls at both stop B and A when coming back from Tyldesley, but doesn't re-trace the same road (and no bus stops) til after running past the train stations.
View attachment 142957

That's an arrangement that has been in place going back to the early 1990s I think - it was originally part of the Shearings/Timeline 51A to St Helens.

Historically the old 583 ran from Leigh up to the Hag Fold turning circle on Spa Road. When Shearings (unless the bus ops had been spun off by then) launched the 51A, it was extended back to Atherton town centre so that there was a link from Hag Fold to the new Kwik Save on Bolton Road (roughly where "from Loop" on the brown line is). The only place to spin the bus round was at Flapper Fold Lane (stop B), as otherwise the bus would have to do the full length of the one way system.

I think at the time, the 51A also diverted to serve Hamilton Street, so in order to get on to Hag Fold, it went via Flapper Fold Lane, as again, it would otherwise have had to do the full length of the one way system.

This went on for some considerable time - I'm not sure when the service was withdrawn, but if it wasn't by First then it lasted until close to the sale of Timeline.

Anyway, the 682 was the replacement tendered out by Greater Manchester PTE (as was), and was run by Jim Stones right through until retirement closure. The tender was reduced from full to partial at some point, as I recall the wording in later timetable leaflets stated such (something in the back of my mind suggests it was deminimis).

Diamond took it over commercially, then extended it to Tyldesley to replace the 683 - at this point the combined 682/683 became 583. They later pulled off but won it back on tender (and rerouted via Westleigh to replace the 595).

However, all through, it has served Atherton twice - the 682 did only serve Flapper Fold Lane once originally, but later served it twice because Flapper Fold Lane was much closer to the shops.

 

[asb]

- There was previously a bus gate in Walnut Tree Way that could have let the service get to stops (that are still in place but unused) in another estate south of King's Hedges Road, but it's been blocked off since that service was abandoned years ago

That bus gate was appallingly unreliable, and a nightmare to reverse away from if you got there in a bus and found it broken. The local children enjoyed "riding" it when it went back up, and the mechanisms couldn't cope.

 

[Lukeo2311]

the 902 in Canberra Australia loops around the jail stop twice, once before going towards Hume and once again going away from Hume towards Woden, most journeys do this