Rover / Ranger maps that you'd change

[lyndhurst25]

Following on from this thread
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/lancashire-ray-ranger-validity-question.167633/

What Rover / Ranger maps do you think could be changed for the better? I'm talking about sensible changes that don't undercut normal day return fares and might actually have a chance of being approved!

With the example above: the Cheshire Day Ranger allows travel between Liverpool and Manchester via both main routes - via Warrington and via Earlestown. However, the Lancashire Day Ranger only allows travel via Earlestown. I think that it would be a sensible change that the Lancashire ticket should also allow travel via Warrington too. That would make it easier to understand and more attractive to leisure travellers. I can't see the change leading to any significant revenue loss.

Another suggestion is the Lincolnshire Day Ranger. Currently, and inexplicably, it doesn't include the Brigg line or the Barton on Humber branch. I'd add Retford-Gainsborough-Brigg-Barnetby and the Barton branch to the map.

http://www.railrover.org/pages/cheshire-day-ranger.html
http://www.railrover.org/pages/lancashire-day-ranger.html
http://www.railrover.org/pages/lincolnshire-day-ranger.html

EDIT- I think I'd also add Sheffield-Retford-Gainsborough to the Lincolnshire Day Ranger. If Doncaster and Nottingham get a look in, then so should Sheffield.

 

[Kite159]

Agreed with the inclusion of the Barton & Brigg lines with the Lincolnshire rover.

Maybe only to Retford towards Sheffield though

 

[lyndhurst25]

Agreed with the inclusion of the Barton & Brigg lines with the Lincolnshire rover.

Maybe only to Retford towards Sheffield though

Maybe. That would at least save passengers the trauma of trying to buy a Lincolnshire Day Ranger at Sheffield ticket office. "This is Yorkshire, don't you know?!" (see other threads on people trying to buy rovers and rangers at Sheffield)

 

[Rover]

Chesterfield gets a pretty raw deal, apart from the ALR there's only two, the Derbyshire Wayfarer and the East Midlands Rover.

The Coast & Peaks finishes at Sheffield and Belper; The South Pennines Day Ranger finishes at Dronfield; The North East Rover also finishes at Sheffield although that one may be a little optimistic; The Heart of England Rover also finishes at Belper, again rather optimistic; and the East Midlands Day Ranger finishes at Belper and Alfreton.

There's no reason why the Coast & Peaks, South Pennines and the East Midlands Day Ranger can't start from Chesterfield.

 

[Wallsendmag]

I’d change the Scottish rover to start in Scotland

 

[BlueFox]

I'd extend the North West rover to go as far south as Crewe on the WCML. Currently it only goes as far as Warrington BQ.

I've used a North West rover in conjunction with a Heart of England rover before, but the only place on both maps is Chester, which is an annoying and time consuming detour if you're travelling up the WCML. Maybe not many people use the two tickets together so it's not much of an issue, but a lot of people think of Crewe being in the North West anyway, so it would be a good fit for the ticket.


I think the North Country rover should include Newcastle to Berwick.

 

[Ianno87]

Anglia Plus Day Ranger to include King's Lynn.

 

[lyndhurst25]

Something that has always stuck me as being odd (in a good way) is the Greater Manchester Wayfarer. A GMPTE product that also allows travel deep into the Derbyshire Peak District. Perhaps they thought that it would be a good thing for the citizens of Greater Manchester to escape the smokey city and spend some time in the countryside? There's no equivalent product for those on the other side of the Pennines. I'd introduce a South Yorkshire Wayfarer covering all the SYPTE area plus Sheffield to Chesterfield, Sheffield to New Mills, and New Mills to Buxton. I'd also include bus travel in the Peak District Plus Bus area.

 

[Haywain]

Chesterfield gets a pretty raw deal, apart from the ALR there's only two, the Derbyshire Wayfarer and the East Midlands Rover.

Much of the south of England doesn't get covered by anything other than the ALR. Chesterfield does pretty well by comparison.

 

[lyndhurst25]

Much of the south of England doesn't get covered by anything other than the ALR. Chesterfield does pretty well by comparison.

Yes, but the south of England has the Network Railcard to achieve similar aims - encouraging off peak leisure travel.

 

[Haywain]

Yes, but the south of England has the Network Railcard to achieve similar aims - encouraging off peak leisure travel.

Whereas all it has really done is allowed Off Peak fares to reach levels far higher than the rest of the country. For the value of most rover tickets and especially for many day ranger tickets, there is nothing comparable for travel outside of the London Travelcard area.

 

[lyndhurst25]

North-South divide. The south has higher wages, employment rates, house prices, life expectancy, rail investment and better weather. Rail fares in the south are consequently set higher. The north has higher levels of poverty, Pacers and a handful of cheapish rail rovers.

 

[alistairlees]

North-South divide. The south has higher wages, employment rates, house prices, life expectancy, rail investment and better weather. Rail fares in the south are consequently set higher. The north has higher levels of poverty, Pacers and a handful of cheapish rail rovers.

I'm pretty sure the weather hasn't got anything to do with rail fares.

 

[sheff1]

Something that has always stuck me as being odd (in a good way) is the Greater Manchester Wayfarer. A GMPTE product that also allows travel deep into the Derbyshire Peak District. Perhaps they thought that it would be a good thing for the citizens of Greater Manchester to escape the smokey city and spend some time in the countryside? There's no equivalent product for those on the other side of the Pennines. I'd introduce a South Yorkshire Wayfarer covering all the SYPTE area plus Sheffield to Chesterfield, Sheffield to New Mills, and New Mills to Buxton. I'd also include bus travel in the Peak District Plus Bus area.

My recollection is that that was one of the reasons for introduction the GM Wayfarer. There used to be a ticket, such as the one you describe, which covered S Yorkshire and much of the Peak District - I cannot remember when it was withdrawn.

 

[Haywain]

North-South divide. The south has higher wages, employment rates, house prices, life expectancy, rail investment and better weather. Rail fares in the south are consequently set higher. The north has higher levels of poverty, Pacers and a handful of cheapish rail rovers.

So give us rover tickets at higher prices.

 

[Darandio]

I'd add the ECML section between Darlington and York to the Tyne Tees day ranger, it's currently only valid to Northallerton if you go via Yarm. I don't think it's asking much.

 

[lyndhurst25]

My recollection is that that was one of the reasons for introduction the GM Wayfarer. There used to be a ticket, such as the one you describe, which covered S Yorkshire and much of the Peak District - I cannot remember when it was withdrawn.

It's a pity that it got withdrawn. I can imagine the powers that be making the decision "Subsidised rail travel to improve people's health and well being? We can't be having that."

A few good suggestions of obvious omissions so far, especially Kings Lynn for the Anglia Plus ticket and Newcastle-Berwick for the North Country Rover.

For the residents on southern England who are feeling left out of the whole northern rail rover experience, I'd introduce a NorthernMegaPacerPeakSeaside Rover:
- 4 in 8 days
- includes return Megbus journey from London to Manchester or Leeds coach stations.
- unlimited peak hours only travel on Northern services (*class 142 or 144 trains only).
- discount vouchers for 33% off bed and breakfast accommodation in the resorts of Blackpool, Morecambe and Cleethorpes.
- valid October to March only.

 

[lyndhurst25]

I'm pretty sure the weather hasn't got anything to do with rail fares.

Every winter, November to March, there are reduced fares on the Settle to Carlisle and Leeds to Morecambe lines for Dales Railcard and WYPTE ENCTS pass holders. These lines rely on leisure travel for big proportion of passenger numbers and usage plummets when the days get shorter and the weather gets grim, hence the special offer to keep usage up during the winter.

 

[40145 Panther]

I would also add Stalybridge and Ashton-under-Lyne to the Cheshire Day Ranger boundary. This would be valid on Manchester bound trains and the Stockport-Stalybridge service. Other glaring omissions on the map include Hyde North, Hyde Central, and Woodley.

 

[Merseysider]

I’d introduce a SaveawayPlus that includes Warrington eastbound, and Neston southbound.

An additional £2 on top should be break-even.

 

[lyndhurst25]

I’d introduce a SaveawayPlus that includes Warrington eastbound, and Neston southbound.

An additional £2 on top should be break-even.

Although Saveaway is a Merseyside PTE product, it already includes "free" travel outside the county to Chester and Ormskirk, due to them being served by the Merseyrail electric network. If that network ever gets extended, as people keep talking about, to Burscough / Preston, Skelmersdale / Wigan, Wrexham and Warrington, then that would be a great area for a SaveawayPlus. I'd also add in Runcorn as it's more expensive to drive there now that they've introduced tolls on the bridge.

 

[Wirewiper]

I would invent these new Day Rover-type ticket products for London and the South East - these would be operator-specific, not available before 09.30 Monday-Friday and would be pitched at roughly the same price level as the highest-priced off-peak day return covering the area. All-line versions would include London Terminals.

1) c2c Day Rover.

Available in two versions: All-line, and Outer-zone (Upminster or Rainham (London) - Shoeburyness). Includes all c2c services (after 09.30 Monday-Friday). All-line also includes Romford-Upminster, Tilbury-Gravesend ferry and bus 99 in Tilbury. Not available at West Ham but valid for entry/exit.

2) Southeastern Day Rover.

Available in the following versions:
- All-line: All Southeastern services except on High-Speed Line between Ashford International, Ebbsfleet International, Stratford International and London St Pancras International. Includes Thameslink services between Rainham (Kent) and London Blackfriars, also between Sevenoaks and London Blackfriars, and can be used between Herne Hill and London Blackfriars. Also includes Southern between Ashford International and Hastings/Bexhill.
- All-line Plus Highspeed: As all-line, plus valid on High-Speed line between Ashford International and London St Pancras International.
- Kent Zone: Valid on all lines outside London (boundary at Ebbsfleet International, Dartford, Swanley, Orpington) except High-Speed Line between Ebbsfleet International and Ashford International. Also valid on Thameslink trains within the zone, and on Southern between Ashford International and Hastings/Bexhill.

3) Chiltern Day Rover

Valid on all Chiltern Railways services (after 09.30 Monday-Friday), except between Birmingham Snow Hill and Kidderminster. Not valid on services operated by any other Train Operating Company, including London Underground. May be used on Chiltern Railway services between London Marylebone and Great Missenden but not valid for entry or exit at Underground Stations between Harrow-on-the-Hill and Amersham inclusive.

 

[AM9]

I would invent these new Day Rover-type ticket products for London and the South East - these would be operator-specific, not available before 09.30 Monday-Friday and would be pitched at roughly the same price level as the highest-priced off-peak day return covering the area. All-line versions would include London Terminals.

1) c2c Day Rover.

Available in two versions: All-line, and Outer-zone (Upminster or Rainham (London) - Shoeburyness). Includes all c2c services (after 09.30 Monday-Friday). All-line also includes Romford-Upminster, Tilbury-Gravesend ferry and bus 99 in Tilbury. Not available at West Ham but valid for entry/exit.

2) Southeastern Day Rover.

Available in the following versions:
- All-line: All Southeastern services except on High-Speed Line between Ashford International, Ebbsfleet International, Stratford International and London St Pancras International. Includes Thameslink services between Rainham (Kent) and London Blackfriars, also between Sevenoaks and London Blackfriars, and can be used between Herne Hill and London Blackfriars. Also includes Southern between Ashford International and Hastings/Bexhill.
- All-line Plus Highspeed: As all-line, plus valid on High-Speed line between Ashford International and London St Pancras International.
- Kent Zone: Valid on all lines outside London (boundary at Ebbsfleet International, Dartford, Swanley, Orpington) except High-Speed Line between Ebbsfleet International and Ashford International. Also valid on Thameslink trains within the zone, and on Southern between Ashford International and Hastings/Bexhill.

3) Chiltern Day Rover

Valid on all Chiltern Railways services (after 09.30 Monday-Friday), except between Birmingham Snow Hill and Kidderminster. Not valid on services operated by any other Train Operating Company, including London Underground. May be used on Chiltern Railway services between London Marylebone and Great Missenden but not valid for entry or exit at Underground Stations between Harrow-on-the-Hill and Amersham inclusive.

That's beginning to sound like a boundary zone 6 Ranger, i.e. an add-on to a zones 1-6 travelcard to one or more TOCs stations in the NSE area:

a GA rover could allow travel from Harold Wood and Turkey Street to the GA lines including those covered by the Anglis Plus Ranger
a GTR (north) Ranger would be from Elstree and Crews Hill to the limits of Thameslink services (even more useful if/when the East West route opens)
a Southeastern Ranger could be from Dartford*, Swanley and Knockholt to include all the SE non-HS1 services
a GTR (south)/Southern Ranger from Coulsdon South* or Ewell East to include services to the south coast as far as Havent and Ashford
a SWR Ranger would be from Feltham, Hampton Court, Surbiton, Ewell West and include serivices to the South Coast on the Portsmouth Direct, SWML to Southampton and the lines between Eastleigh and Southampton and Portsmouth.
a West Ranger could be from West Drayton, West Ruislip and Amersham* an include services to Reading, Oxford and Aylesbury​

* With the availability of some additional Travelcard zones extensions such as to Cheshunt, Brentwood, Dartford and Amersham plus the possibility of Dartford, Cheshunt and the possibility of some extensions to Epsom, Redhill and towards Reading, the inner boundary of these Rangers could be correspondingly adjusted.

 

[paddy1]

I'd extend the Heart of England 3 in 7 days or 7 day Rover further south to include Milton Keynes (via Weedon or Northampton) and valid on Virgin Trains also so that it facilitates a fast run up the Trent Valley WCML route through to Crewe, Chester or Stoke. At present, it is only valid from Northampton so starting from here and wanting to use it to or via these stations means one is restricted mainly to slow, tedious journeys on overcrowded Trent Valley LNWR trains or to the more frequent LNWR but still slow journeys via Birmingham. This must surely act as a disincentive for anyone travelling from Northampton (or Rugby) to purchase one of these rovers.

 

[Parallel]

It always baffled me as to why Pewsey is included in the Heart of Wessex day ranger, seeing as Dilton Marsh and Warminster aren’t. I’d probably add in Warminster and Dilton Marsh to the validity. What’s even more odd is Pewsey is omitted from the Freedom of the South West. Why is it included in one and not the other?

 

[bussnapperwm]

The WMCA DAYTRIPPER Plus ticket, I would extend to include electric 323 services, plus Leamington to Nuneaton via Coventry.

 

[boxy321]

The WMCA DAYTRIPPER Plus ticket, I would extend to include electric 323 services, plus Leamington to Nuneaton via Coventry.

Is there a ticket more descriminatory to Coventry people than this? Can get toWolverhampton, Rugely, Dorridge and Stourbridge but not Bedworth or Kenilworth.

 

[scrapy]

Is there a ticket more descriminatory to Coventry people than this? Can get toWolverhampton, Rugely, Dorridge and Stourbridge but not Bedworth or Kenilworth.

Not really, if your going to Bedworth or Kenilworth then you could simply buy the appropriate ticket. You could argue you can get further from Coventry for example to Wolverhampton, Rugeley or Stourbridge so it's discriminatory to people from Birmingham who can't use it to go as far from their origin.

 

[boxy321]

Good point! There will always be an issue about range I suppose.

 

[martinsh]

The WMCA DAYTRIPPER Plus ticket, I would extend to include electric 323 services.

So, the ticket wouldn't be valid if your service is unexpectedly subbed with a class 350 ?!