Royal Mail discussion

[DelW]

Yes. Tends to happen at all the less busy / little-used collection boxes. The collection time might not be exactly 9.00 a.m. during the week, it could be then, or possibly a little later. Would be useful if the day of the next collection (metal plate) was always in use at such post boxes. (It's seemingly missing from the one in the pic).

Or even quite a bit later ... I walked past a box showing those times at about 13:45 yesterday - just as it was being collected. As has been said, I think it just means that collection may be as early as the times shown, but may sometimes be much later.

 

[XAM2175]

As has been said, I think it just means that collection may be as early as the times shown, but may sometimes be much later.

Exactly this. If you get a letter in by the time shown you can be confident that it'll be collected that same day (barring some unusual circumstance); after that, you're taking your chances.

I can actually see my local "9 am" box from my kitchen window, so I can reliably assure you that it gets cleared during the delivery rounds (almost always within touching distance of half-10 in the morning, incidentally).

This is being done on extremely busy pillar boxes in the middle of Epsom as well... I think it's a national standard they're rolling out. I'd regard it as a national sub-standard, personally...

I mean, yes, but at the same time... the number of people for whom an afternoon/evening clearance is needed, or even just of significant and frequent value, is unquestionably falling, and falling fast. Merging many clearances into delivery rounds strikes me as pretty decent increase in efficiency, even at the cost of adding one extra day maximum to time-in-transit for an article - and a significant number of people affected will presumably have the option of going to a post office (which should still have a 5 pm clearance).

There will still be losers, I don't deny this, but it's simply not possible to maintain the old standard of service without the old volume of paying post.

 

[swt_passenger]

I spotted a new collection times plate a few weeks ago and managed to get a photo this morning. It shows that the last collection time is 9am Monday to Friday and 7am on a Saturday.
Surely this means for most users their post will now be collected the following day. Is this becoming a common occurrence?

View attachment 132946

This was first discussed on page 1 of this thread. As I replied in post #31, my postie explained that what it means in practice is “will be emptied at any time after 9am”. They don’t zoom round all the boxes just after 9am.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I mean, yes, but at the same time... the number of people for whom an afternoon/evening clearance is needed, or even just of significant and frequent value, is unquestionably falling, and falling fast. Merging many clearances into delivery rounds strikes me as pretty decent increase in efficiency, even at the cost of adding one extra day maximum to time-in-transit for an article - and a significant number of people affected will presumably have the option of going to a post office (which should still have a 5 pm clearance).

Our local posties have been told they cannot collect and deliver on the same round... we recently had something at work that was missed for collection the previous day when a trainee roundsman didn't realise there was a separate out tray for each tenant in the building and we asked the morning delivery man the next day to take it; he told us he wasn't allowed to as he was doing deliveries... it would have to wait for the booked collection round that afternoon.

 

[Typhoon]

Our local posties have been told they cannot collect and deliver on the same round... we recently had something at work that was missed for collection the previous day when a trainee roundsman didn't realise there was a separate out tray for each tenant in the building and we asked the morning delivery man the next day to take it; he told us he wasn't allowed to as he was doing deliveries... it would have to wait for the booked collection round that afternoon.

It probably depends on the situation. Most of those quoted above are referring to collections from a post box, this seems to be a different arrangement. In our case (estate of a couple of hundred, one box on estate, two just off it), there are two postmen. One does entirely deliveries, the other drives, empties the boxes, delivers larger parcels, and does some letter delivery (there is some flexibility whereby a few roads get whichever postman has finished first). There are a sort of set of (V. expensive) flats but I would be surprised if they weren't required to use the post box like the rest of us.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

It probably depends on the situation. Most of those quoted above are referring to collections from a post box, this seems to be a different arrangement. In our case (estate of a couple of hundred, one box on estate, two just off it), there are two postmen. One does entirely deliveries, the other drives, empties the boxes, delivers larger parcels, and does some letter delivery (there is some flexibility whereby a few roads get whichever postman has finished first). There are a sort of set of (V. expensive) flats but I would be surprised if they weren't required to use the post box like the rest of us.

The same roundsmen who collect at the office do cover the nearby pillar boxes as well.

Don't think they do the domestic delivery rounds, though. That's definitely a different lot of people.

 

[tigerroar]

roundsmen? that's a new one on me!

 

[XAM2175]

Most of those quoted above are referring to collections from a post box, this seems to be a different arrangement.

Yes, I was referring to domestic services. Commercial arrangements will be different.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Got a card through my door today saying they are moving to doing an automatic day two redelivery, the effect of which is that you won't be able to collect from the depot or redirect to a post office until day three.

What on earth is possessing them to do that? In most cases if someone is out on a weekday they'll also be out on the next weekday.

Personally I'd like a feature (and I'd pay a small fee for it) where I could arrange for ALL parcels that don't fit my letterbox to be taken to the local post office for collection automatically, ideally on the same day.

 

[jfollows]

The management of the Post Office appears to be totally uninterested in the Horizon affair, to the extent that they - deliberately or otherwise - fabricated statements in its accounts to enable a larger bonus of £450,000 to be paid to its chief executive, Nick Read. He has now agreed to "return" part of this bonus on the basis of errors in the accounts which wrongly stated that all the company's executives had met all their obligations to support the inquiry into the problems of the Horizon system (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65520699):

Horizon scandal: Post Office boss to pay back part of bonus​

• • Published
    9 hours ago

By Lucy Hooker
Business reporter, BBC News

The chief executive of the Post Office, Nick Read, will return part of his £450,000 bonus for last year, after a rebuke from the chairman of the inquiry into the Horizon computer scandal.
In its financial accounts for last year the Post Office said its executives had met all their obligations to support the inquiry into the system.
But the inquiry is still taking place.
They also wrongly said inquiry chairman Sir Wyn Williams had approved bonuses relating to that support.
Mr Read apologised for what he described as "unacceptable errors".
In a letter to the inquiry chairman, Mr Read admitted the firm had made an "incorrect statement" in its accounts.
The Horizon inquiry is investigating how hundreds of sub-postmasters became victims of a vast miscarriage of justice.
They were blamed for discrepancies in their sub-post office's finances and prosecuted, with many receiving prison sentences, criminal records or going bankrupt. The discrepancies were down to the Post Office's glitch-prone IT system, called Horizon.
In the Post Office's annual accounts for last year published on 1 March, there was a target for executives defined as: "All required evidence and information supplied on time, with confirmation from Sir Wyn Williams and team that Post Office's performance supported and enabled the Inquiry to finish in line with expectations".
The metric was marked as '"achieved" although at the time the bonuses were agreed the inquiry was still in its first phase. It is likely to continue until 2024.
After a lawyer acting on behalf of Sir Wyn questioned the accounts, the Post Office issued a statement apologising for the "inappropriate sub-metric related to the Horizon IT Inquiry".
In a letter addressed personally to Sir Wyn, Mr Read apologised and said he would return the remuneration associated with that sub-metric.
The Post Office board is considering whether other members of the leadership should do the same.
The inquiry has heard moving testimony from dozens of sub-postmasters who were falsely accused of fraud. Hundreds lost their livelihoods, were stigmatised in their communities, and some sent to prison.
Dozens of convictions have now been overturned in the courts, but many of those wrongly convicted are still awaiting compensation.
The next phase of the inquiry due to start next month will look at the action taken against the sub-postmasters, and knowledge of and responsibility for failures in investigation. A later phase will explore governance including whistleblowing over the scandal.
Mr Read said in his letter that he regretted the errors made particularly against the background of "deeply concerning" evidence presented to the inquiry.
He added: "Our clear intent remains to offer full and fair compensation as quickly as possible and we are doing all we can to work with the government to achieve that."

Of course, mistakes can happen. But this just looks yet another case of the people running the Post Office being more interested in lining their own pockets at the expense of people they wronged. Chief executives are responsible for the contents of their reported accounts, and it's correct that this has been acknowledged, but it's hard to understand how the mistake was allowed to happen in the first place if the people in charge had their priorities right. So it's not hard to conclude that they don't, just as their predecessors didn't either.

 

[Gloster]

And Paula Vennells still has her CBE for ‘services to the Post Office…’

 

[Baxenden Bank]

And Paula Vennells still has her CBE for ‘services to the Post Office…’

She served the Post Office well. How she served postmasters/mistresses is perhaps a different matter.

 

[tigerroar]

She should be in prison.

 

[jfollows]

She should be in prison.

Yes, but they don't, do they?
Anyone old enough to remember Equitable Life might agree with me that the people then responsible for the debacle and lies should have gone to prison, but they didn't. If nothing else "pour encourager les autres", but the opposite happened, and these people know that their incompetence which ruins peoples' lives will go unpunished.

The "chief executive" of Royal Mail - Simon Thompson - is expected to "step down" within weeks, according to The Guardian.
Who are all these bosses of Royal Mail? It seems to have more chiefs than it has workers these days. I'm probably confusing Royal Mail with the Post Office I guess.
Anyway, here's the article, it's at https://www.theguardian.com/busines...n-thompson-expected-to-step-down-within-weeks

Royal Mail

Royal Mail chief expected to step down within weeks​

Simon Thompson has had a turbulent two-year stint at the helm

Gwyn Topham
@GwynTopham
Mon 8 May 2023 17.29 BST
Royal Mail boss Simon Thompson is expected to step down within weeks, after a turbulent two-year stint at the helm.
The chief executive has been accused by unions of inflaming the bitter industrial dispute, and his credibility was put in question after a Commons select committee appearance.

According to Sky News, his exit could be announced as early as this week, with some members of the board of International Distributions Services (IDS), the parent of Royal Mail, having concluded that new leadership is needed.
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...e-cluelessness-by-mps-ofcom-letter-deliveries
Other sources cited by Sky claimed Thompson had become increasingly disillusioned about the job in recent weeks.
A spokesperson for Royal Mail and IDS said they did not comment on rumour or speculation.
Thompson, who first joined IDS in 2017 as a non-executive, took over as chief executive at Royal Mail and tried to push through large-scale changes to working conditions and cost-cutting measures, but was met with fierce resistance and strikes.
A potential end to the long industrial dispute was reached last month in a provisional agreement with the Communication Workers Union, which has called strikes on 18 days in the past year. Members are voting on a three-year pay deal worth 10% that would also bring in Sunday working, but which the CWU said had headed off the “Uberisation” of Royal Mail jobs.
The union had accused the company’s management of “a complete lack of integrity” after changes to work practices that had not been agreed were imposed at offices across the country.

Thompson was accused of “incompetence or cluelessness” by MPs on the business committee after appearing before them in January and being recalled over questions about his evidence. They called on the regulator, Ofcom, to investigate whether the company had broken legal service requirements.

Thompson has also had to deal with a ransomware attack linked to Russian hackers that stopped international mail deliveries from the UK to other countries.

EDIT The BBC is running much the same story at https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65524835:

Royal Mail boss expected to resign within weeks​

• • Published
    13 hours ago

By Jemma Dempsey
BBC News

The boss of the Royal Mail is expected to step down within weeks following a difficult two years in charge.
The BBC understands talks around Simon Thompson's exit are in the advanced stage, after he was accused of misleading MPs when he denied the firm tracked workers' productivity.
The chief executive has also presided over a long-running dispute over pay and conditions.
The Royal Mail said it would not "comment on speculation".
It is understood his departure could be announced as early as this week.
Sky News reported city sources as saying Mr Thompson, 56, had become "increasingly disillusioned" during the strike action with the Communication Workers Union.
It said an industry source claimed leaders of Royal Mail's parent company, International Distributions Services, also believed the business required fresh leadership following the period of unrest.
Last month, bosses of the Communication Workers Union recommended that postal workers accept a new pay deal, which would end the long-running feud with the Royal Mail. Union members will be balloted later this month.
The company has said a return to industrial action, which it said had cost it £200m in lost business already, could result in the postal service going into administration.
Mr Thompson's position within the company was weakened after he was recalled to give evidence to MPs in January, following "hundreds" of complaints about the accuracy of earlier testimony in which he denied that the firm tracked workers' productivity through their handheld computers.
MPs also questioned his denial that Royal Mail prioritised parcels.

A Comment in The Times also thinks that the Post Office bonus payments are a failure of governance (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/post-office-chiefs-bonuses-are-yet-another-scandal-73nd7njwm), "There are only so many times the PO can apologise for astonishing misbehaviour, insist lessons have been learnt, and then expect us all to move on. The government, as the PO’s sole shareholder, should be demanding resignations."

DAN NEIDLE

Post Office chiefs’ bonuses are yet another scandal​

Dan Neidle

Monday May 08 2023, 9.00pm, The Times

Between 2000 and 2013, the Post Office falsely accused thousands of postmasters of theft. Some went to prison. Many had their assets seized and their reputations shredded. Marriages and livelihoods were destroyed. At least 59 postmasters have now died, never receiving any apology or compensation.

The PO then spent years fighting compensation claims in the courts, using every trick in the book to draw things out as long as possible. Now, finally, it is paying compensation — slowly. All of this is the subject of a statutory inquiry, chaired by the retired judge Sir Wyn Williams.

The PO has a moral and legal duty to fully co-operate with the inquiry. But the PO apparently didn’t think that was enough — it tied 25 per cent of its chief executive and senior leadership team’s bonuses to the inquiry’s outcome. A bonus would be paid if Williams confirmed that the PO’s support had enabled the inquiry to finish in line with expectations, and that the PO had started to implement its recommendations.

Many people would regard this as tasteless. Paying a bonus to the executive team for fulfilling what should be its duty sits poorly with the hundreds of postmasters who are yet to receive a penny of compensation.
But that’s not the scandal. The scandal is that the PO’s annual report reveals that it assessed these objectives as “achieved” and then paid the bonuses — even though Williams had not confirmed that the PO had helped the inquiry to reach a satisfactory conclusion. That would have been impossible — the inquiry won’t conclude before the end of the year. So the leadership team got their bonuses on the basis of what was transparently a false statement.

My immediate reaction was outrage. But the real question is: how could this happen? Everyone in the PO’s management and legal teams knew the inquiry was still proceeding. The remuneration committee, legal team, internal audit team, the chairman and the board — all should have realised something was wrong. The fact that they didn’t suggests a failure of governance, indeed a failure of basic competence.
There are only so many times the PO can apologise for astonishing misbehaviour, insist lessons have been learnt, and then expect us all to move on. The government, as the PO’s sole shareholder, should be demanding resignations.
If the management team are incapable of spotting a transparent falsehood in their own annual report, what else are they missing? How can we have any confidence in their ability to right the wrongs of the past? And what further debacles can we expect in the future?

Dan Neidle runs Tax Policy Associates