Royal train: is there a full list of journeys made?

[deltic]

Has anyone ever compiled a list of all the trips made by the Royal Train over the years it has been operating?

 

[Herbie]

Saw this online the other day, although not complete.

https://www.railwaymuseum.org.uk/sites/default/files/2018-03/Royal Trains List.pdf

 

[rogercov]

Saw this online the other day, although not complete.

https://www.railwaymuseum.org.uk/sites/default/files/2018-03/Royal Trains List.pdf

Interesting, but, as you say, it's sadly incomplete.
I've got some dated photographs from the 1950s of journeys that do not appear in that list.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Thanks for that link.
It reminds me of a Royal Train that ran in October 1965 which I would dwarly like photographic confirmation of, which I doubt I will ever see. Back in the Summer of 1965 D5380 and D5382 went into Derby Works and came out wearing a new coat of two tone green - the same livery as Brush type 4s and the "sister" BR/Derby Sulzer type 2s. these two locos also received the Royal Train communication "hole" in the gangway doors which a number of BR diesels received over the years. This can be identified by a small circular plate with a couple of bolt heads securing it.

I am pretty convinced that these two BRCWs were specially nominated and prepared for the Royal job on the night of 21st October 1965. I think they relieved the Royal Train at Leicester and worked it overnight to Crossgates near Leeds, where the train was to run back ECS. However, I believe it was foggy that night and the train was used to take the Royals (which ?) back to London the next day after their Royal flight was cancelled.

D5380 and D5382 were the only BRCWs to receive TTG livery and one of the pair subsequently received wraparound full yellow ends, sometime before they were transferred to Scotland. Should anyone discover a photo of these two locos multied together, I would really love to see it. The chances are very slim as the northbound journey was overnight, and it was reputed to be very foggy in Yorkshire the next day.

 

[deltic]

Saw this online the other day, although not complete.

https://www.railwaymuseum.org.uk/sites/default/files/2018-03/Royal Trains List.pdf

Thanks Herbie

 

[Peter Sarf]

Has anyone ever compiled a list of all the trips made by the Royal Train over the years it has been operating?

Yes I would be interested in info. Particularly formations. I am still waiting for proof, or otherwise, that 2919 ever turns a wheel !.

 

[LOM]

Yes I would be interested in info. Particularly formations. I am still waiting for proof, or otherwise, that 2919 ever turns a wheel !.

2918 and 2919 have both been wothdrawn and stored at Wolverton for years.

 

[Peter Sarf]

2918 and 2919 have both been wothdrawn and stored at Wolverton for years.

And they don't seem to be visible, are they ?. I recall 2919 was promised at the Wolverton open day that got cancelled a few years back. I cancelled a few important things to be able to go to that - Doh !.

 

[Taunton]

I think they relieved the Royal Train at Leicester and worked it overnight to Crossgates near Leeds, where the train was to run back ECS. However, I believe it was foggy that night and the train was used to take the Royals (which ?) back to London the next day after their Royal flight was cancelled.

Gerry Fiennes writes in his well-known autobiography that BR staff regularly used to point out to their Royal organiser contacts forecasts of bad flying weather etc, and that they were available!

 

[rogercov]

Interesting, but, as you say, it's sadly incomplete.
I've got some dated photographs from the 1950s of journeys that do not appear in that list.

Further to this, here are some memories of two Royal journeys that do not appear on that list.

1. Royal Train conveying the Queen to the Medway Towns
"Schools" class 30925 "Cheltenham" passing Shortlands 24th October 1956.
(from an original photograph by J. Head)



2. Royal Train conveying the Queen and Duke of Edinburgh from Shorncliffe to Windsor, after return from state vist to the Netherlands
Rebuilt "West Country" class 34037 "Clovelly" passing Bromley South 28th March 1958.
(from an original photograph by J. Head)

 

[30907]

Looks as though the NRM list only covers journeys using all or part of the Royal Train, whereas for day journeys the SR at least used Pullmans - Derby Day etc., as well as those above.

 

[theblackwatch]

Yes I would be interested in info. Particularly formations. I am still waiting for proof, or otherwise, that 2919 ever turns a wheel !.

Are you saying that you think 2919 may have never operated at all? Or just in recent years?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Are you saying that you think 2919 may have never operated at all? Or just in recent years?

2919 certainly has run in the past as I've seen it ( years ago ); it's the other one - 2918 - that I haven't seen!

 

[Peter Sarf]

Are you saying that you think 2919 may have never operated at all? Or just in recent years?

I have never seen 2919, though that might mean I am not trying hard enough !. I must have been trying since about 1985.

2919 certainly has run in the past as I've seen it ( years ago ); it's the other one - 2918 - that I haven't seen!

Well mine is the other way round. Seen 2918 not ever 2919.

I have never seen a record of 2919 being used but I have not seen many records.

 

[theblackwatch]

It sounds like neither 2918 or 2919 have ventured out much. I've just had a look at Roger Harris' recent book on coaching stock, and it gives both these coaches as having been converted/entering service in 1989 and being put into store in 2012. I saw them both in the 405xx HST TRUK days!

 

[Peter Sarf]

It sounds like neither 2918 or 2919 have ventured out much. I've just had a look at Roger Harris' recent book on coaching stock, and it gives both these coaches as having been converted/entering service in 1989 and being put into store in 2012. I saw them both in the 405xx HST TRUK days!

That is about right. I think two others were converted from HST TRUKs as well - 2916 & 2917 iirc. Might be the staff accommodation or generator cars. I half expect to see a derelict coach 405xx at Wolverton matching 2919s former identity. When I visited Wolverton on an open day (probably last century) I ignored a derelict HST buffet coach and I have always wondered if that was it. This is because I have no proof that 2919 ever got used or converted apart from the above post from @Peter Mugridge.

Its a tease as 2919 is by far the oldest vehicle I need. Next oldest are the five extra 66s from Sweden (well Scandinavia) and then stuff currently being delivered !.

 

[LOM]

2918 and 2919 have definitely both been used as I have seen them (from memory in the same train). The February 2006 issue of Rail Express did a feature on the Train and it includes details of a few formations, 2919 was recorded in the formation of a journey to York in April 1996 which would be within a year or so of the last time I saw it. I will need to dig out my old notes. More recently 2915 and 2917 seem to have taken over the roles of 2918 and 2919.

 

[LOM]

You can find a photo of 2919 in service at Plymouth in 1991 here -

http://www.dawlishtrains.com/royal-train.html

Second row down, middle photo.

 

[theblackwatch]

Interesting replies everyone - I think we've confirmed 2918 & 2919 were actually converted. I do remember there being an Open Day at Wolverton in 1988 and I was quite disappointed that the only TRUK to be seen was 40514 - it was untouched in blue/grey and from what I can recall, was on accommodation bogies. I assume the
other 3 (40512/15/18) were hidden away in the Royal Train Shed. By then, I think 40512 may have already become 2916.

Thanks for the tip-off regarding Rail Express Feb 2006 @LOM - I'll have to dig my copy out and have a read (I have all the issues).

 

[Peter Sarf]

You can find a photo of 2919 in service at Plymouth in 1991 here -

http://www.dawlishtrains.com/royal-train.html

Second row down, middle photo.

Thanks for that. I just don't get many shots at seeing it !.

Interesting replies everyone - I think we've confirmed 2918 & 2919 were actually converted. I do remember there being an Open Day at Wolverton in 1988 and I was quite disappointed that the only TRUK to be seen was 40514 - it was untouched in blue/grey and from what I can recall, was on accommodation bogies. I assume the
other 3 (40512/15/18) were hidden away in the Royal Train Shed. By then, I think 40512 may have already become 2916.

Thanks for the tip-off regarding Rail Express Feb 2006 @LOM - I'll have to dig my copy out and have a read (I have all the issues).

Well well. The number 40514 rings a bell !. And I remember seeing an HST buffet coach on accommodation bogies at an open day.

The open day might well have been 1988 !. Round about then I was working in an office overlooking the west London Line and so I had an unfair advantage over my friends. I finished that job in about 1990 so it looks like I probably lost the opportunity just as 2919 might have started its use.

 

[theblackwatch]

Well well. The number 40514 rings a bell !. And I remember seeing an HST buffet coach on accommodation bogies at an open day.

The open day might well have been 1988 !. Round about then I was working in an office overlooking the west London Line and so I had an unfair advantage over my friends. I finished that job in about 1990 so it looks like I probably lost the opportunity just as 2919 might have started its use.

In the past year or two, I've seen a picture of 40514 at that Open Day - but despite spending the past 30 mins or so trying to find it, frustratingly I can't! Nor have I come across any pictures of those 4 at Wolverton before they were rebuilt - despite then having spent several years there. I suspect they were hidden away in the Royal Train shed for most of that period.

EDIT: Bingo, I have found it - it was on Facebook! Hope this link works for those who are interested.

 

[Helvellyn]

The Platform 5 books always stated that 2918 and 2919 were Royal Household cars, but is that actually the case? From the picture posted of 2919 it looks like it had a small kitchen in the middle and I wonder if it was maybe a Royal Saloon for use by more junior members of the Royal Family before use of the Royal Train was restricted to HM The Queen & HRH The Duke of Edinburgh and HRH The Prince of Wales & HRH The Duchess of Cornwall.

 

[Peter Sarf]

In the past year or two, I've seen a picture of 40514 at that Open Day - but despite spending the past 30 mins or so trying to find it, frustratingly I can't! Nor have I come across any pictures of those 4 at Wolverton before they were rebuilt - despite then having spent several years there. I suspect they were hidden away in the Royal Train shed for most of that period.

EDIT: Bingo, I have found it - it was on Facebook! Hope this link works for those who are interested.

Yes that looks familiar although at the open day I think it had less parked near it of course. Can date the photo as being after the introduction of the Swallow livery - now when was that ?.

The Platform 5 books always stated that 2918 and 2919 were Royal Household cars, but is that actually the case? From the picture posted of 2919 it looks like it had a small kitchen in the middle and I wonder if it was maybe a Royal Saloon for use by more junior members of the Royal Family before use of the Royal Train was restricted to HM The Queen & HRH The Duke of Edinburgh and HRH The Prince of Wales & HRH The Duchess of Cornwall.

Mmm, sadly I think that might well have been the cause of their lack of use. I also vaguely recall that two older (Mk2) coaches appeared to serve the same purpose. It followed that perhaps two coinciding demands on the Royal Train might force the use of one/both of 2918 & 2919. Lets face it 2919 must be getting fairly long in the tooth by now, but then again probably in pristine condition ?.

 

[theblackwatch]

Yes that looks familiar although at the open day I think it had less parked near it of course. Can date the photo as being after the introduction of the Swallow livery - now when was that ?.

Swallow appeared in 1987. The photo was captioned "HST trailer 40514 at Wolverton on 1st October 1988" which is the date of the Open Day - although my vague recollection is of it being parked by itself rather than among a load of other stock. As it is over 30 years ago, my mind may well be wrong though!

 

[Peter Sarf]

Swallow appeared in 1987. The photo was captioned "HST trailer 40514 at Wolverton on 1st October 1988" which is the date of the Open Day - although my vague recollection is of it being parked by itself rather than among a load of other stock. As it is over 30 years ago, my mind may well be wrong though!

Yes it was on its own, possibly by a wall or fence. I have a suspicion there might have been more than one HST buffet coach lying around so what I am recalling might not have been that one. What I remember is a few years later realising I should have noted them all down at the open day !.

I assume there has only ever been that one open day as otherwise I would have been trying to go. Like the one a few years ago that got cancelled.

 

[theblackwatch]

Yes it was on its own, possibly by a wall or fence. I have a suspicion there might have been more than one HST buffet coach lying around so what I am recalling might not have been that one. What I remember is a few years later realising I should have noted them all down at the open day !.

I assume there has only ever been that one open day as otherwise I would have been trying to go. Like the one a few years ago that got cancelled.

I definitely only saw one at that Open Day (and it was 40514), and that is backed up by the list at http://www.bropendays.co.uk/1965_1993.html . Note that it gives it as a 2 day event, which makes me wonder if some stuff was shunted around. There was another Open Day in 1985 according to that website, but none of the Royal (or to be Royal) coaches are listed - presumably they were hidden away.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I definitely only saw one at that Open Day (and it was 40514), and that is backed up by the list at http://www.bropendays.co.uk/1965_1993.html . Note that it gives it as a 2 day event, which makes me wonder if some stuff was shunted around. There was another Open Day in 1985 according to that website, but none of the Royal (or to be Royal) coaches are listed - presumably they were hidden away.

That is an interesting site. Compare the decline in stock at Wolverton from 1985 to 1988 then to 1993. The list stops in 1993 and I wonder how many (few) open days, for any location, there have been since then ?.

 

[dubscottie]

According to a book on the Royal Train I have, 2918 & 2919 are household coaches for use as offices by private/press secretaries etc. They are only used on journeys of 3 days/nights or more when extra staff need to travel with the train.

 

[Peter Sarf]

According to a book on the Royal Train I have, 2918 & 2919 are household coaches for use as offices by private/press secretaries etc. They are only used on journeys of 3 days/nights or more when extra staff need to travel with the train.

So a tour of various places rather than the big trek North to Balmoral ?.

 

[dubscottie]

Seems like it. It is a bit vague but it appears some senior staff travel by other means on single trips. On few longer, multi day/night trips these staff travel with the Royal so they are close at all times and require their own offices/accommodation.

It looks like the last time they were used extensively was on the Jubilee tours of various parts of the UK when the queen was onboard for 3-4 days at a time.

There is a pic of the interior of 2918 in that book also.