Royal Train

[DarloRich]

It isnt on thier website until after the event (as far as I know)

 

[nedchester]

I disagree - if you know in advance a route and timings or stabling location it is very easy for Mr Terrorist to casue trouble. Simply mine the line, sit back and wait ( i would hope the line would be checked before hand!)

However if you come accross the RT stabled somewhere, by chance, you would need Mr Terrorist to be armed and looking for tourble at all times.

For God's sake!!! If a load of trainspotters can work out what the Royal Train is doing then I am sure that a terrorist organisation can work it out too.

You are not doing anything wrong by reporting your sightings and where you think it'll be the next day.

We don't live in a police state yet?! No-one is going to get into trouble with the police/security services for reporting the Royal Trains whereabouts. Anyone who thinks that they are going to get carted off in the back of a van is just plain stupid!
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It isnt on thier website until after the event (as far as I know)

It is on plenty of on line media websites though.
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There is a big difference between people discussing when it's going to run (it's not the best kept secret) and walking right up to it - which is a far bigger security risk! :roll:

You can get quite close actually:

http://nedchester.fotopic.net/p5869344.html

 

[jopsuk]

It isn't as if by working out the movements of the train that you're doing anything that difficult or using any classified knowledge. You are certainly breaking no law by discussing its future movements.

 

[Dolive22]

The general practice is not to announce the time of visits except for morning or afternoon and only supply timings to credentialled members of the press who will be attending, on the understanding that such material is embargoed until they have left.

As to what you have seen while spotting, spotters who make themselves known etc. tend to not be worried about on the basis that if there were concerns special branch could cross check to see if anyone of concern has been watching anything sensitive. Once you start sharing that with everyone that system falls apart.

On balance it would probably be best if you don't share details of the movements of the royal train and trains carrying nuclear material until they have moved on unless it comes from official sources.

If in doubt, you could always ring 0800 40 50 40 and ask how BTP feel about it.

 

[nedchester]

The general practice is not to announce the time of visits except for morning or afternoon and only supply timings to credentialled members of the press who will be attending, on the understanding that such material is embargoed until they have left.

As to what you have seen while spotting, spotters who make themselves known etc. tend to not be worried about on the basis that if there were concerns special branch could cross check to see if anyone of concern has been watching anything sensitive. Once you start sharing that with everyone that system falls apart.

On balance it would probably be best if you don't share details of the movements of the royal train and trains carrying nuclear material until they have moved on unless it comes from official sources.

If in doubt, you could always ring 0800 40 50 40 and ask how BTP feel about it.

Does it really matter what the BTP think. If you see the Royal Train sitting in a siding (as it often does overnight at Hooton) and make an educated guess about it's movements then you are doing nothing illegal. I will certainly continue to do so.

Same applies to Nuclear trains (there's a regular working down the North Wales Coast each week for example)

Maybe the BTP aren't happy about but tough, we live in a free country. I don't expect to be arrested any time soon.

 

[Dolive22]

I never said it was illegal, although you could make an argument that it is, either under the suite of 'information of use to a terrorist' offences or as obstruct police. I was discussing what was responsible. I don't have to report gates left open that could let kids wander on to the railway, help a BTP PCSO give directions, tell railway staff that some dozy **** has parked across the access gate Network Rail will need later that night, check that that bag has an owner nearby etc. but I do because that's the responsible thing to do.

 

[nedchester]

I never said it was illegal, although you could make an argument that it is, either under the suite of 'information of use to a terrorist' offences or as obstruct police. I was discussing what was responsible.

I think you've been sucked in by the paranoia that pervades this country at the moment. You are merely reporting that you've seen the Royal Train and that it will probably go to X. There is no evidence that a terrorist is interested in that info.

I send gen out about all sorts of rail movements including the nuclear train to Valley for example:
6D41 05.35 Crewe – Valley
6K40 14:58 Valley – Crewe for your information

A competent terrorist would already know and doesn't need me to tell them.

Stop being so paranoid!!!

 

[Dolive22]

If anything my paranoia is 10 years out of date, it's based on 10 year old advice. But, better safe than sorry.

 

[MggW]

On balance it would probably be best if you don't share details of the movements of the royal train and trains carrying nuclear material until they have moved on unless it comes from official sources.

You won't get the information from 'official sources' as it is kept relatively secure. The train does not appear on TOPS/TRUST and the timings are distributed on a need to know basis, and drivers diagrams are not published in the usual way. Even those involved with the Train on a regular basis only get timings for the specific train they are working.

The Train used to run with the headcode 1X01 most of the time, but now it has a different headcode for each trip which is in the usual special train range of 1Zxx.

 

[junglejames]

Use of the train by members of the Royal Family other than the Queen and Prince Charles was stopped a few years ago when Household costs were under the spotlight and were reduced.

I believe that the helicopters used by the Royal Household will be life expired soon, so there may be greater use of the Train in the future. But that may will depend on the personal preferences of Prince William.

The Train is owned by NR and operated and maintained by DBS.

The advantage the train offers is by saving on accommodation costs and separate travel costs, together with being easier to secure.

What is the 'only proper passenger train' on the WCML? The Royal is a proper train by most definitions! As are the many charters that operate over it.

Well depends if we call the RT and the charters as a passenger train. I did forget one though. The sleeper.
As mentioned though, no i dont like pendos or voyagers. I find both are plastic and tacky and have a horrible uncomfortable interior.
Impressive performance wise (but couldnt anything be if given all that power), but cant stand the interior.
Coincidentally, typing this whilst travelling on a pendo. My first actual trip on one (last time i got straight off it was so bad).
I really dont understand the hype about them either. It sounds very much like a Mk4 at speed, and has a worse ride quality than the Mk4s. Everything rattles as well.

Considering ive just stepped off the sleeper, this is a different world, in the bad sense!

Anyway, back to the Royal Train, which does have proper coaches at least!!! lol

 

[nedchester]

If anything my paranoia is 10 years out of date, it's based on 10 year old advice. But, better safe than sorry.

Sorry for what?

 

[DazDude]

Incidentally enough I saw the royal train this afternoon around 12ish in-between platforms 11 and 12 of Crewe station, waiting to head in a southernly direction. Anyone know where it had come from/was going to?

Daz

 

[nedchester]

Incidentally enough I saw the royal train this afternoon around 12ish in-between platforms 11 and 12 of Crewe station, waiting to head in a southernly direction. Anyone know where it had come from/was going to?

Daz

North Wales?

http://www.people.com/people/package/article/0,,20395222_20468803,00.html

 

[CrackBerry]

I never said it was illegal, although you could make an argument that it is, either under the suite of 'information of use to a terrorist' offences or as obstruct police.

Utter tripe, it cannot fall under the offence of obstructing the police, as you are not. And in relation to the information of use to a terrorist, again no chance. Unless you are planning a terrorist offence, of supplying the information directly to someone who you know is then there is no chance of an arrest, no chance of a charge and zero chance of a conviction.

 

[Dolive22]

It is not utter tripe. I didn't actually say it did fall within them, but if you want to discuss it, the offence under section 58 is complete when you collect or make any record of a kind likely to be of use to a terrorist or possess any a document or record containing information of that kind. There is no requirement for evidence of intention to use it for terrorism or of actual intent. The only defence is reasonable excuse, which would be things like having to have the records for your job such as where operations control staff possess records showing the movement of the royal train or a police officer is told the classified security plan for a facility.

Obstructing a police officer is somitted whenever you do something which makes it harder for a constable to do their job. That doesn't have to be standing in their way, it can be by removing police tools such as watching for suspicious activity.

Having said that, you are right that it is unlikely that you would be arrested. I never said you would.

MggW, by official sources I meant the relevant press office and reports indirectly from them such as press reports.