RTVs - ridiculous response from West Midlands Trains

[GB71]

Not sure if this is the right area - please move if necessary.

I have just had the most ridiculous response ever from Customer Relations at West Midlands Trains.

I split my time between South Yorkshire and Northants - in Northants my nearest station is Long Buckby (LBK) which in what seems forever has never had the ticket office open even at advertised times. I have plenty of options when I'm back up north to spend them but I wanted to find out how I was ever supposed to use them should I wish to travel from LBK so I phoned WMT to ask. Long story short I got a completely unhelpful response which was basically go to Rugby as Avanti normally open their ticket office there. Never try to board a WMT train without a ticket first I was told clearly. To be fair if they were WMT vouchers they would cash them for me I was told. Mine are from a variety of TOCs - and I know there is differing opinions on here with others not liking RTVs - I tend to give them to friends family etc to use

So not happy with this as LBK will not re-open for the forseeable future I escalated my issue - and this is the farcical response I have received:

Dear Garry,

Thank you for your email.

I understand you have Rail Travel Vouchers and are wondering how to use them. My colleague XXX was correct - they cannot be used in place of a ticket. They are to be exchanged for tickets at a ticket office.

You mentioned you had them by different train companies, this is where it becomes a little more confusing so bear with me. The rail vouchers can only be exchanged for a ticket in a station owned by that train company. So, if you have Avanti rail vouchers, you can only exchange them at an Avanti station. The same for Chiltern, CrossCountry, and London Northwestern.

As Long Buckby station is currently unstaffed, your nearest exchange point for London Northwestern vouchers will be Northampton station. If you have Avanti vouchers, your nearest exchange point is Rugby.

I understand this is complex and long winded. The rail industry is working for more cohesion, and this being one of those points needed.

I advise you to look at your vouchers of origin and find your nearest stations by selecting them below:
Station information | LNR | London Northwestern Railway
Train Station Information | Station Facilities | Avanti West Coast
Our stations | Chiltern Railways
Train Station Information and Route Maps | Great Western Railway (gwr.com)
Stations | CrossCountry (crosscountrytrains.co.uk)

If the company you need isn't on here, just search 'Company name, Stations'

Kind regards,

XXX
Customer Relations Advisor

Seriously how are ordinary customers who know little about the railway expected to deal with this rubbish?

I have removed the names of the staff in case anyone is from LNR

 

[ainsworth74]

I appreciate that Customer Services probably don't deal with people having RTV issues very often anymore but I'm sure a quick check of the Internal Knowledge Base (something which someone who hasn't dealt with such a thing might want to do before advising the public) will make it very clear they can be used on train and do not have to be used at the stations of the company that issued them. I'm fascinated to know how they think someone with an RTV issued by XC will redeem at a station operated by XC for instance...

 

[Buzby]

Just incredible. And they wonder why so many cannot be bothered with Delay Repay as the resulting credit will cause more hassles at encashment.

 

[skyhigh]

And they wonder why so many cannot be bothered with Delay Repay as the resulting credit will cause more hassles at encashment.

Only if you choose RTVs. I can't imagine many people do these days when there's the option to get the cash paid directly into your bank account.

 

[yorkie]

West Midlands Trains don't have sufficient safeguards in place to ensure that their customer services / customer facing staff are knowledgeable; therefore this sort of nonsense does not surprise me.

Most people just believe what they are told, so the company benefits.

You are entitled to travel with an RTV; if your origin station has an open ticket office then you are required to purchase the ticket(s) of your choice there. If it does not, you are entitled to board the train and purchase at the first opportunity.

The first opportunity may be on board a train, or at an interchange (if this would not cause you to miss a connection) or at the destination.

If no opportunity occurs, then that's not your problem.

Seriously how are ordinary customers who know little about the railway expected to deal with this rubbish?

Most people accept what they are told and either accept being mistreated or use other transport modes. There is no incentive for WMT to provide good customer service.

 

[Haywain]

And they wonder why so many cannot be bothered with Delay Repay as the resulting credit will cause more hassles at encashment.

How many people ask for vouchers rather than a payment to their bank account or card? It must be a tiny proportion.

 

[GB71]

How many people ask for vouchers rather than a payment to their bank account or card? It must be a tiny proportion.

And whilst I appreciate it is a smaller proportion than request cash and that you may wish to defend colleagues it is a valid method of payment. The reason I request RTVs is irrelevant but for the record I am the trustee of a charity dealing with mental health and homeless issues - I donate vouchers to volunteers and supporters of our events. so for the record in my case a valid reason I hope to request RTVs

 

[MrJeeves]

Only if you choose RTVs. I can't imagine many people do these days when there's the option to get the cash paid directly into your bank account.

Sometimes you don't have a choice. With GTR, if you claim compensation via customer services, they can only issue RTVs, but you can convert them to cash or credit on a debit card at a GTR ticket office.

 

[skyhigh]

And whilst I appreciate it is a smaller proportion than request cash and that you may wish to defend colleagues it is a valid method of payment. The reason I request RTVs is irrelevant but for the record I am the trustee of a charity dealing with mental health and homeless issues - I donate vouchers to volunteers and supporters of our events. so for the record in my case a valid reason I hope to request RTVs

Oh yes it's absolutely valid to request RTVs if you wish - they are a payment method that's offered so you're free to pick them if you wish (and expect that redeeming them would be simple). I'm just saying that issues with RTVs is unlikely to be a reason why people don't bother with delay repay.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sometimes you don't have a choice. With GTR, if you claim compensation via customer services, they can only issue RTVs, but you can convert them to cash or credit on a debit card at a GTR ticket office.

I wonder if they're confusing cashing in with spending?

I've rocked up inside Euston gateline with an RTV and no ticket and they've just asked me to go and buy one (though that was when there was an 8-11 booking office, so they could see that I did).

 

[MrJeeves]

I wonder if they're confusing cashing in with spending?

I would imagine so

 

[WesternLancer]

The reason I request RTVs is irrelevant but for the record I am the trustee of a charity dealing with mental health and homeless issues - I donate vouchers to volunteers and supporters of our events. so for the record in my case a valid reason I hope to request RTVs

Just noticed this - of course sounds perfectly reasonable - tho I note that RTVs have a space for a name of the person using them to be filled in on the reverse. I have always assumed this is so that in theory that can be checked against who the RTV was issued to. If RTVs are not transferable donating them on to others might not be permitted.

No doubt someone here will know if I am correct or not.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And whilst I appreciate it is a smaller proportion than request cash and that you may wish to defend colleagues it is a valid method of payment. The reason I request RTVs is irrelevant but for the record I am the trustee of a charity dealing with mental health and homeless issues - I donate vouchers to volunteers and supporters of our events. so for the record in my case a valid reason I hope to request RTVs

Why not just claim into your bank account then donate cash to the charity? And Gift Aid it, so it's worth 20% more?

 

[Haywain]

and that you may wish to defend colleagues it is a valid method of payment.

I have no idea who these 'colleagues' are that you seem to think I might "wish to defend". My comment was based on my own experience as a customer of the railways and of the way the vast majority buy tickets and claim Delay Repay.

 

[GB71]

Why not just claim into your bank account then donate cash to the charity? And Gift Aid it, so it's worth 20% more?

OK - I didn't want this to become an RTVs are archaic thread - I get that for many; but just to be clear we organise street sleepouts and as an example one colleague was desperate to participate, support and experience what the homeless go through. To join us would have cost him about £100 train fare and I felt that was too much to ask - I therefore gave him RTVs to thank him and make it possible for him to join us - and we've raised the best part of £10K sleeping rough on the streets last weekend - the guy would have insisted on not taking cash from me - but human nature as it is I was able to send him some RTVs.

Hopefully that makes sense and people understand why I request RTVs. Real point - I would welcome some advice on how to respond to the farcical email I have had - thanks in advance

 

[Bletchleyite]

Hopefully that makes sense and people understand why I request RTVs. Real point - I would welcome some advice on how to respond to the farcical email I have had - thanks in advance

I don't think I'd respond to it at all. Just travel with your RTVs and pay for your ticket at the first opportunity, which will probably be Euston gateline assuming that's where you're going. I've done this before and it wasn't a problem.

The one thing I'd say is that if some misguided RPI wrongly issues you a Penalty Fare, accept it and appeal, and the appeal should succeed (take a photo of the RTV to prove you had one). You don't want to get into the settlement process, that lacks the appropriate checks and balances.

 

[AlterEgo]

Never ever email a train company to "clarify" something, there's the lesson. The right answer has been posted in the thread.

 

[SteveM70]

Only if you choose RTVs. I can't imagine many people do these days when there's the option to get the cash paid directly into your bank account.

How many people ask for vouchers rather than a payment to their bank account or card? It must be a tiny proportion.

I do, for two reasons:

1 - my delay repay claims tend to be smallish values (£2 to £7 sort of thing) and so if the money drops into my bank account I don't really notice it, but if I build a few RTVs up I can get a free trip to somewhere nice. I know it's a trick of the mind and I'm no better off, but it *feels* like a treat. Same as allowing my Nectar points to build up and then buying Xmas food and booze with them

2 - and this is petty, but after the shambles of the last 8 years commuting to Manchester with Northern, because it inconveniences them most, and is most expensive for them to administer. I know quite a few people I work with who do similar because of the nightmare of commuting with Northern through the nightmare years

 

[Bletchleyite]

1 - my delay repay claims tend to be smallish values (£2 to £7 sort of thing) and so if the money drops into my bank account I don't really notice it, but if I build a few RTVs up I can get a free trip to somewhere nice. I know it's a trick of the mind and I'm no better off, but it *feels* like a treat. Same as allowing my Nectar points to build up and then buying Xmas food and booze with them

You could put the equivalent amount of cash (actual cash) into a piggy bank for that? Or if you use a bank like Monzo, drop them into a "savings pot" - I think you can probably even use something like If This Then That to make it do that automatically if it comes from your usual TOC.

2 - and this is petty, but after the shambles of the last 8 years commuting to Manchester with Northern, because it inconveniences them most, and is most expensive for them to administer. I know quite a few people I work with who do similar because of the nightmare of commuting with Northern through the nightmare years

I think the phrase there is "biting off your nose to spite your face". A bureaucratic machine doesn't really care, but it inconveniences you.

 

[Haywain]

I do, for two reasons:

The fact that you do doesn't stop the number of people claiming RTVs being a tiny proportion.

 

[skyhigh]

I do, for two reasons:

1 - my delay repay claims tend to be smallish values (£2 to £7 sort of thing) and so if the money drops into my bank account I don't really notice it, but if I build a few RTVs up I can get a free trip to somewhere nice. I know it's a trick of the mind and I'm no better off, but it *feels* like a treat. Same as allowing my Nectar points to build up and then buying Xmas food and booze with them

2 - and this is petty, but after the shambles of the last 8 years commuting to Manchester with Northern, because it inconveniences them most, and is most expensive for them to administer. I know quite a few people I work with who do similar because of the nightmare of commuting with Northern through the nightmare years

For both of those points, surely you'd be better off claiming the free journey option with Northern? Could give you a lot more value and still lets you travel somewhere nice for free. I'm not convinced that RTVs are really that much more expensive for the TOC to process compared to a cheque or a free journey voucher either.

 

[SteveM70]

For both of those points, surely you'd be better off claiming the free journey option with Northern? Could give you a lot more value and still lets you travel somewhere nice for free. I'm not convinced that RTVs are really that much more expensive for the TOC to process compared to a cheque or a free journey voucher either.

Don't worry, I do if I'm delayed over half an hour - at the peak of the 2018 meltdown I had over 40 of them, down to my last half dozen now

 

[David57]

I have never had any problem boarding at Long Buckby with RTV's, my trips are to Birmingham, and I use the excess ticket window there.

 

[Skiddaw]

The fact that you do doesn't stop the number of people claiming RTVs being a tiny proportion.

I agree, and I'm not one of the tiny proportion, but that isn't the point really is it surely? Why make it so difficult? It can't be so hard to formulate an arrangement to allow them to be exchanged for tickets at any station can it? Or am I missing something?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I agree, and I'm not one of the tiny proportion, but that isn't the point really is it surely? Why make it so difficult? It can't be so hard to formulate an arrangement to allow them to be exchanged for tickets at any station can it? Or am I missing something?

They can be exchanged for tickets at any staffed station. It doesn't have to be the same TOC, that's only true if you exchange them for cash. You can't use them at TVMs because there's no barcode scanner.

The fix is to get rid of them. They're an anachronism. Another option exists for basically every situation, be that an e-voucher, actual money, a cheque or a Northern style free ticket instead.

 

[Darandio]

I agree, and I'm not one of the tiny proportion, but that isn't the point really is it surely? Why make it so difficult? It can't be so hard to formulate an arrangement to allow them to be exchanged for tickets at any station can it? Or am I missing something?

No, that's why the arrangement already exists.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Never ever email a train company to "clarify" something, there's the lesson. The right answer has been posted in the thread.

Indeed, in the unlucky event you can't buy one on board because the Conductor isn't sure how or has forgotten how to process (I've never seen one in over 6 years on the job), they will always tell you to purchase at your destination.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Indeed, in the unlucky event you can't buy one on board because the Conductor isn't sure how or has forgotten how to process (I've never seen one in over 6 years on the job), they will always tell you to purchase at your destination.

Or because it's a Bletchley guard and they don't do tickets, and definitely don't do selling them!

If going south from Long Buckby the purchase will almost certainly take place at Euston gateline.

 

[sheff1]

Real point - I would welcome some advice on how to respond to the farcical email I have had - thanks in advance

The reply is so farcical I think you would be wasting your time responding but if you do wish to maybe ask them to confirm this is their final answer adding that, if it is, you will be refering the matter to the Ombudsman.

 

[WesternLancer]

The reply is so farcical I think you would be wasting your time responding but if you do wish to maybe ask them to confirm this is their final answer adding that, if it is, you will be refering the matter to the Ombudsman.

The outstanding ones I have to spend are not to hand as I write this but the OP could scan the bit that I think is on them (or the back of them?, but perhaps it was the letter that came with them) that states that they can be used for tickets purchased from any operator, and ask how their answer, by the author's own admission, complex, matches up against the info supplied with or on the RTV

Mind you it is possible that, as mentioned up thread, they have assumed the question they were being asked was about exchanging the RTV for cash - not about buying a ticket.