Rumour: New cycle policy?

[brianthegiant]

Dear all,

I recently got into conversation with a cross country train manager, who said that cycle reservations are shortly becoming compulsory on all trains, including trains that are currently non-reservable. Also that it is all TOCS not just XC.

I haven't heard anything about this elsewhere, is it a bit of an exaggeration?

Understandable on some services ( rush hour & inter city), but on others a bit pointless.

 

[Goatboy]

It's another example why just because somebody is staff does not make the words they speak gospel.

 

[Laryk]

I avoid using any TOC which doesn't have a large space to put bicycles (Guard compartment, DVT etc) simply because of the hassle. Compulsory reservations may make it easier for me as my journeys are planned in advance.

 

[jopsuk]

I doubt- there's little chance of cycle reservations being at all a thing on TOCs and services that don't do seat reservations. It would be such a hassle for everyone concerned, especially on DOO services!

 

[185]

Dear all,

I recently got into conversation with a cross country train manager, who said that cycle reservations are shortly becoming compulsory on all trains, including trains that are currently non-reservable. Also that it is all TOCS not just XC.

I haven't heard anything about this elsewhere, is it a bit of an exaggeration?

Understandable on some services ( rush hour & inter city), but on others a bit pointless.

Haha. Total rubbish. May be one or two other operators tightening their policies but rest assured if anything as ridiculous as a compulsory day-before reservation programme came in there would be riots. Well, Raleigh Choppers being chained to the front of Pendos.

I mean, what happens if you get a flat tyre and then miss your train? - are cyclists then technically banned from all other trains that day? Bonkers.

XC is pretty much the only operator outside of the South to have an across the board comp-res policy for cyclists, and they created their own problem by playing musical buffets with the Voyagers.

 

[mrredrunner100]

I don't think it should be compulsory for reservations because sometimes I find its a spare of the moment decision for me to take my bike on the train and then there isn't enough time to reserve places. I haven't really had the need to reserve places, but I can see during rush hour and when big bike events are on, there is a need but I don't think it should be. it does sound a bit unusual.

If that makes sense

 

[Qwerty133]

just wish certain TOCs would enforce their bike policy's. If I remember rightly XCs is 2/3 per train but I have seen 7 on a 2 car Turbostar and EMTs is 2 per train but I have seen at least 6 on a Meridian- most of which were blocking doors, and 4 on a dogbox (seriously). There clearly not bothered about it as the same AM peak trains have more than the permitted number every day for a number of months and no member of staff has ever said anything except ask the cyclists to move a bike to a different part of the vestible.

 

[185]

just wish certain TOCs would enforce their bike policy's. If I remember rightly XCs is 2/3 per train but I have seen 7 on a 2 car Turbostar and EMTs is 2 per train but I have seen at least 6 on a Meridian- most of which were blocking doors, and 4 on a dogbox (seriously). There clearly not bothered about it as the same AM peak trains have more than the permitted number every day for a number of months and no member of staff has ever said anything except ask the cyclists to move a bike to a different part of the vestible.

Meh. Amateurs. I got over twenty comfortably & safely on a 185.

 

[mrredrunner100]

What happens if one of the guards refuses to load a bike? Does the cyclist have to wait for the next train? Also on GA I have only ever seen no bike spaces available once and that was when NXEA was in control during use of the trains with bikes

 

[Silv1983]

What happens if one of the guards refuses to load a bike? Does the cyclist have to wait for the next train? Also on GA I have only ever seen no bike spaces available once and that was when NXEA was in control during use of the trains with bikes

Well if its the bloke who gets on at Levenshulme only to alight at Manchester Piccadilly he'll have to get peddling - all 2 miles into Manchester :roll:

 

[Bob Ames]

Doesn't VT on WCML already have such a policy? Some very good points made concerning missed services etc., and something to chew on as I contemplate my first cycle purchase (I intend to replace my car with train+bike). Does anyone have any experience with folding cycles (presumably you wouldn't have to reserve space if you're just throwing it on the overhead rack or placing into baggage space)?

 

[jopsuk]

If you're putting a folding bike on the luggage rack- even Bromptons are a bit heavy to be going overhead, other brands you'd struggle to lift that high- on services where there's lots of people with "normal" luggage, I'd reckon it would be polite to get a bag for it. But no, no reservations- they basically count as "luggage" even without a cover.

As for travelling with a bike reservation on a later train? Practically, it comes down to if the space is there or not. I once booked to travel Poole-Edinburgh, changing at Bournemouth onto Virgin XC, with a bike. Got to Bournemouth to find emergency engineering chaos. Persuaded the coach driver that we could put my bike in the hold, wrapped in bin bags (they always have bin bags), at my risk. Got to Southampton, had to get a train two hours after my booked one. Thankfully space was available.

 

[185]

Well if its the bloke who gets on at Levenshulme only to alight at Manchester Piccadilly he'll have to get peddling - all 2 miles into Manchester :roll:

Good luck to him if he's using the train from there. The A6 into Manchester from Levvie and both Hyde Road and the A34 are notorious death traps for cyclists. There really is no safe alternative route around that way into the city.

I cycle some way on the A6 into Manchester each day and can understand why he does this. People seem averse to considering both sides of an opinion.

 

[Shimbleshanks]

Doesn't VT on WCML already have such a policy? Some very good points made concerning missed services etc., and something to chew on as I contemplate my first cycle purchase (I intend to replace my car with train+bike). Does anyone have any experience with folding cycles (presumably you wouldn't have to reserve space if you're just throwing it on the overhead rack or placing into baggage space)?

My folding bike (a Ridgeback, a bit heavier than a Brompton and a veteran of the London-Liverpool run) just about fits into the luggage spaces at the end or middle of a Pendolino but there's no way I'd ever get it into an overhead rack. The only issue I find is when boarding a train that is already full - especially at an intermediate station rather than the terminus - when it may not be possible to find a free luggage space and a seat for yourself in the same carriage. I tend to use the (empty) space intended for wheelchairs if I'm stuck.

Bear in mind that folding bikes tend to get a fair hammering, especially things like brake and gear cables and pedals, so will need a certain amount of TLC to keep them running. Folders aren't the swiftest beasts, nor are they great on steep hills, but should be fine for urban rides of up to five miles or so.

But on the whole, a great way to travel. I rarely take my full-size bike on the train these days, unless I'm going on a specifically cycling holiday.

 

[pemma]

I doubt- there's little chance of cycle reservations being at all a thing on TOCs and services that don't do seat reservations.

It would actually be easier to do with bikes as you would just need to reserve a space on a train - like Southern do with Advance tickets rather than a specific space.

 

[swt_passenger]

SWT's Waterloo - Exeter service has had compulsory reservations for bikes for ages:

On the West of England route (London Waterloo to Salisbury, Exeter and Bristol), you need to reserve space for your cycle.
You can do this at any staffed station, or from our Customer Service Centre on 0845 6000 650. Please book at least 24 hours in advance.

http://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/uploads/cyclesontrains2010map.pdf

No idea if it works, or is reliably enforced as I don't use the route much.

 

[jopsuk]

when I've used EMT on the Norwich-Liverpool route (between Ely and Peterborough) which has cycle reservations (158), I've found a seat-back reservation ticket by the bike rack, which I thought was quite neat. On EC and XC (only other rservation-required services I've used) the Guard has had a note of cycle reservations- especially needed on EC where the cycle storage area is not publically accesible, being either in the TGS van section (on HSTs) or in the DVT (mark 4s)

 

[mrredrunner100]

I have never had a problem with intercity services and reserving, I just go and put It in the guards van. I have never had to reserve or I have never been asked about it before. Although I found this on the GA site

London Liverpool Street - Norwich Intercity Services
Free of charge.

Reservations in advance are compulsory.

Six dedicated bicycle spaces are available in the Guard’s van.

The Guard’s van will be locked 3 minutes before departure time from London Liverpool Street and Norwich. Please arrive in good time to make sure your cycle is safely on board by then.

Reservations on the mainline Intercity service can be made by calling our Customer Relations team on 0845 600 7245 and selecting option 8. You must provide at least 24 hours in order to make a reservation. Spaces are subject to availability, on a first come, first served basis.

Also I have seen a lot more than 6 bikes per van

 

[Sleepy]

I have never had a problem with intercity services and reserving, I just go and put It in the guards van. I have never had to reserve or I have never been asked about it before. Although I found this on the GA site



Also I have seen a lot more than 6 bikes per van

more like 30 !!

 

[142056]

I've reserved bike spaces on TPE before and there's never been a ticket there saying it's reserved for me. FGW however, they did do that surprisingly enough.

The annoying thing about compulsory bike reservations is the reduction in flexibility where one has the luxury of choosing one's train company - take Lancaster to Manchester for example, which I have done with a bike several times. I've had to wait some time before now to get the TPE service, rather than jump on a Pendo or Voyager to Preston and change.
I guess it makes it more like we are 'flying' with Virgin Trains - a right hassle.

 

[MikeEastYorks]

My folding bike (a Ridgeback, a bit heavier than a Brompton and a veteran of the London-Liverpool run) just about fits into the luggage spaces at the end or middle of a Pendolino but there's no way I'd ever get it into an overhead rack. The only issue I find is when boarding a train that is already full - especially at an intermediate station rather than the terminus - when it may not be possible to find a free luggage space and a seat for yourself in the same carriage. I tend to use the (empty) space intended for wheelchairs if I'm stuck.

Bear in mind that folding bikes tend to get a fair hammering, especially things like brake and gear cables and pedals, so will need a certain amount of TLC to keep them running. Folders aren't the swiftest beasts, nor are they great on steep hills, but should be fine for urban rides of up to five miles or so.

But on the whole, a great way to travel. I rarely take my full-size bike on the train these days, unless I'm going on a specifically cycling holiday.

I use a Tern Link with a Shimano nexus hub gear, solidly built, folds quickly, and has a chain guard so no greasy trouser bottoms or other peoples luggage.

Hub gears are better for folders as there is no exposed mechanism, this one has 7 gears which covers normal station - work journeys as long as there arnt any massive hills. I also carry a small padlock and chain to attach the bike to the luggage rack, as when the trains are busy some could easily make off with it with out me noticing, it wouldnt stop a determined thief but would stop the opportunist. This bike certainly wouldnt go in the overhead luggage racks. I have found that train plus bike works well where the end of the journey is with in 3-4 miles of the station, and a lot easier than a full size bike when on the train (mainly TPE journeys)

 

[brianthegiant]

well there we are,
thanks for all your responses folks,
I think in most cases the current situation is not a bad compromise.

My experience is that if you're doing a long journey or travelling on-peak a reservation is sensible otherwise you're possibly in for a stressful time & possibility of not getting on. But if only going 1 stop off peak yours is often the only bike anyway.

 

[Silv1983]

Good luck to him if he's using the train from there. The A6 into Manchester from Levvie and both Hyde Road and the A34 are notorious death traps for cyclists. There really is no safe alternative route around that way into the city.

I cycle some way on the A6 into Manchester each day and can understand why he does this. People seem averse to considering both sides of an opinion.

Hmm somewhat hypocritical in that you too have only voiced one side of a subject (the opposite of mine: and I substituted 'opinion' with 'subject' as that doesn't make sense considering opinions are inherently one-sided to start with).

Anyway, I digress, was a bit of fun - not criticising cyclists who carry their bikes to work on the train. I actually agree with you that the A6 through levenshulme and longsight being more dangerous than kandahar. I would cycle if it was safe.

However, cycling a little bit, then going through the hassle of going onto a train station, a train journey, and escaping another train station (such as piccadilly) sounds like a right pain. I cycle for recreation and then use the train for the entirety of a work journey (or walk or car etc).

 

[Chrisgr31]

As a commuter folding bikes are a right pain, They are either in the luggage rack which more usually should be used as seats or they are in the door vestibule (and there can be 3 or 4 of them there) getting in the way of passengers who want to get off and on.

As there is planty of bike parking space at London Bridge I think people should just have 2 bicycles, one at each end, allow the space on the train to be used by fare paying passengers.

 

[jon0844]

Having two bikes isn't such a bad idea, and with improved cycle parking and security that might soon be more viable - but for now it isn't practical.

If you were off work for a bit, your other bike would almost certainly be nicked or stripped!

 

[The Ham]

As a commuter folding bikes are a right pain, They are either in the luggage rack which more usually should be used as seats or they are in the door vestibule (and there can be 3 or 4 of them there) getting in the way of passengers who want to get off and on.

As there is planty of bike parking space at London Bridge I think people should just have 2 bicycles, one at each end, allow the space on the train to be used by fare paying passengers.

When there is enough cycle parking at ALL stations that could be viable, however at many of my local stations there is no or very limited cycle spaces after about 8:00, which is fine for heading into London. However there are alot of business parks near to these stations so people heading the other way wouldn't be able to do what you've suggested.

Although the ATOC's have guidace on cycles:
http://cycle-rail.co.uk/hq-cy/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/ATOC-Toolkit-low-res-single.pdf

One of the intresting things is that they suggest that once cycle parking reaches 80% a further 20% should be provided (page 39); so I think once knows a station reach that level they should write to their TOC and tell them that they need more parking spaces and explain the numbers involved (although it is proberbly best to wait until numbers are well above 80% so as not to be seen as being pedantic).

It also appears to suggest (although it is in relationship to working out the original number of spaces which should be provided) that if there is adhoc parking than there should be 50% more cycle parking than that which is needed to store the cycles which are parked there.

 

[jopsuk]

When there is enough cycle parking at ALL stations that could be viable, however at many of my local stations there is no or very limited cycle spaces after about 8:00, which is fine for heading into London. However there are alot of business parks near to these stations so people heading the other way wouldn't be able to do what you've suggested.

Although the ATOC's have guidace on cycles:
http://cycle-rail.co.uk/hq-cy/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/ATOC-Toolkit-low-res-single.pdf

One of the intresting things is that they suggest that once cycle parking reaches 80% a further 20% should be provided (page 39); so I think once knows a station reach that level they should write to their TOC and tell them that they need more parking spaces and explain the numbers involved (although it is proberbly best to wait until numbers are well above 80% so as not to be seen as being pedantic).

It also appears to suggest (although it is in relationship to working out the original number of spaces which should be provided) that if there is adhoc parking than there should be 50% more cycle parking than that which is needed to store the cycles which are parked there.

There's ~700 bike racks at Cambridge. Best estimates are that 1000-1200 bikes are parked there each day, with regular culls for derilicts. There's also over 1000 (with a large proportion folding) go through the barriers each morning (in both directions). There's been cries for many years to get something done- in a couple of years it might finally have something better, with a 2500 space multistory due to be built. Talk is that the design is configured to be expandable, for when the improved parking drives further deman. At some stations in the Netherlands they have parking for 20,000+ cycles!