Running round at Cowes

[Rescars]

I have recently seen a video of the operation of Cowes station on the Isle of Wight during the BR steam era. As the platform was short, an unusual method was used to run the loco round the train. The normal sequence of events (shown in the video several times) appears to have been as follows:

1. Incoming train runs up to the stops to allow passengers off train.
2. Loco uncouples.
3. Loco propels carriages backwards to clear loco release.
4. Loco halts, whilst carriages continue to move backwards (loose/fly shunted).
5. Loco runs back to the stops, release points reversed and loco runs round.
6. Release points reset and carriages run back to the stops by gravity, braked by the guard.
7. Loco recouples at other end of the train and awaits departure

Is anyone aware of any similar method of working which took place elsewhere? Also, can someone please explain how it was possible to loose shunt carriages fitted with fully charged Westinghouse brakes?

 

[Railsigns]

Gravity shunting was used to run round trains at Killin.

 

[Sun Chariot]

Killin (Scotland) - at the end of the branch from Killin junction - was similar:
The loco crew would uncouple and shunt to the siding,
The guard would release the coach's brakes and gravity would roll the carriage past the loco, on the adjacent headshunt,
The loco would couple up to the other end of the coach and draw back into the single platform, ready for the return to Killin Jcn.

Alternatively, I offer a photo of running round cows....

Gravity shunting was used to run round trains at Killin.

My typing is too slow

 

[SteveM70]

Gravity shunting was used at some point for running round the Bridport branch train at Maiden Newton - it’s mentioned in the book about the branch

 

[Gloster]

It was also used on occasions at Windermere. On at least one occasion they seriously overdid it.

 

[341o2]

The Talyllyn used to use gravity shunting at Tywyn Warf. In pre preservation days, any carriages would be left at Pendre, and the wagons would be propelled into the various sidings at Warf. On one occasion, the driver got it wrong, and the wagons ended up on the Cambrian tracks. For the first year of the preservation society, the same method was used with the carriages, and Tom Rolt was always concerned that they might do the same thing.

There was also fly shunting, where an intermediate coupling was undone, with the aim of getting two rakes of wagons into two different sidings with one shunting movement

 

[Deepgreen]

Killin (Scotland) - at the end of the branch from Killin junction - was similar:
The loco crew would uncouple and shunt to the siding,
The guard would release the coach's brakes and gravity would roll the carriage past the loco, on the adjacent headshunt,
The loco would couple up to the other end of the coach and draw back into the single platform, ready for the return to Killin Jcn.

Alternatively, I offer a photo of running round cows....


My typing is too slow

I seem to recall, too, that gravity operation was actually used to move the passenger-carrying coach from the junction down to Killin sometimes. Photo from my late father's collection:

https://flic.kr/p/2je3aVz

 

[Sun Chariot]

I seem to recall, too, that gravity operation was actually used to move the passenger-carrying coach from the junction down to Killin sometimes. Photo from my late father's collection:

https://flic.kr/p/2je3aVz

What a fabulous, fascinating photo. Many thanks for sharing; and a credit to your father for capturing it so well.

 

[Gloster]

Another location was Eyemouth. There may not have been a run-round at Dyserth, but it may not have seen loco-hauled passenger trains, just railcars and push-pull.

 

[Deepgreen]

What a fabulous, fascinating photo. Many thanks for sharing; and a credit to your father for capturing it so well.

Thanks - I believe it was taken in 1963.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Also done at Yelverton on the GWR Plymouth - Launceston line in the Princetown platform. After the arrival of a train from Princetown, it would be propelled out of the platform 'up the hill' to allow the loco to be released onto the turntable road and the coach(es) then returned by gravity to the platform. The loco would then be attached at the head of the train for the next service out.

 

[ac6000cw]

Also, can someone please explain how it was possible to loose shunt carriages fitted with fully charged Westinghouse brakes?

AFAIK, assuming it's the same as on freight vehicles, there is a valve on each vehicle to dump the compressed air out of the vehicle reservoir and brake cylinders, thus fully releasing the brakes. After the loose shunting is done and the train coupled up, the air compressor on the loco charges the brake system back up to normal operating pressure, filling up the vehicle reservoirs again. Then a brake continuity test is performed.

(This is a commonplace activity in freight sorting yards, of course e.g. in a US hump sorting yard an incoming train will have yard locos coupled to the rear, the air dumped out of the train, then the locos push it slowly over the hump, someone pulls the coupler release lever on each vehicle at the top of the hump, the vehicle separates and the air hoses part then it rolls away down into the 'fan' of sorting tracks, with its speed controlled by ground-level retarders)

 

[Rescars]

Many thanks to everyone for their responses. Clearly these arrangements were not unique to the IoW.

Thanks for your explanation, ac6000cw. The video does not show anyone releasing air out of the system on each carriage, but that may be down to editing and film economy. Was there some way the continuous brakes on a rake of carriages could be released all at the same time, I wonder? This seems unlikely (and could encourage unsafe working) but others may know more. I have heard tales of trains in the 19th century being worked without vacuum after the brakes had leaked off as a coal economy measure, but the circumstances and timings then were very different.

 

[Taunton]

Another occasion where the brakes were released was at Bristol Temple Meads, on northbound cross-country services in steam and early diesel hydraulic times. The GWR used 25" vacuum, whereas others used 21", and when the Western loco was detached there and a Midland one came on, it might not fully release the brakes, so while standing a C&W examiner would make their way alongside the train, "pulling the cords" on each coach, having screwed down the handbrake in the van first (and it being level). Visible from the next platform across, I've heard the exercise described by passengers there to children as "that's the wheeltapper"!

 

[Gloster]

The slight oddity at Cowes seems to have been that normally the loco would either have stopped short of the crossover and then moved forward after uncoupling and then runaround, or that the loco would have pushed the coaches back and not moved back to the buffers until the coaches were stationary: they would then remain stationary until the the loco was coupled on to the other end. Then and only then would the loco propel the coaches up to the stops if necessary. I wonder if the loop was so short that this was the only way to runaround four-coach trains.

 

[ac6000cw]

The video does not show anyone releasing air out of the system on each carriage, but that may be down to editing and film economy. Was there some way the continuous brakes on a rake of carriages could be released all at the same time, I wonder?

Another way of doing it could be - before the loco uncouples, apply the handbrake on the brake coach, release the air brakes from the loco i.e. a normal release, then close the isolating valve at the buffer-beam end of the flexible pipe on the carriage next to the loco (the valve at the other end of the train will be closed anyway). This will keep the air brakes off. Then uncouple the loco and move it out of the way etc. After the carriages have rolled down to the buffer stops, couple up the loco and the brake pipe then open the valve.

This should be a faster way of doing it, as you don't have to wait for the air to discharge from the system or charge it up again.

I have heard tales of trains in the 19th century being worked without vacuum after the brakes had leaked off as a coal economy measure, but the circumstances and timings then were very different.

There were (continuous brake) unfitted or partially fitted freight trains running in the UK up into the 1970s, let alone in the 19th century...

Continuous brakes became mandatory on UK passenger trains in 1889, in response to the Armagh disaster which killed 80 people when a packed excursion train rolled backed down a steep gradient, colliding with a following train.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

I wonder if the loop was so short that this was the only way to runaround four-coach trains.

A four set would fit with in the loop to allow the loco to run round with out the need for gravity shunting, but a summer dated 6 set could not be run round without the guard to his thing with the hand brake! I think the oft' mentioned gravity shunting was just a way of speeding up the overall run round process.

 

[D Williams]

Penzance in the days of steam to save time. Coaches were pushed out of the arrival platform by the train loco then, when this was clear the guard allowed them to run back into the platform on the handbrake. Bodmin General used a novel method for running around clay trains from Boscarne. The brake van would be fly-shunted down the engine release loop, over the engine release crossover and into the platform road. The signalman reset the points at just the right moment and the van bounced off the stop blocks and onto the wagons. This didn't always end in success either.....

 

[Bevan Price]

That method of loco release was sometimes used for "short" local services at Liverpool Lime Street.

Long distance arrivals stock was often taken to Edge Hill, sometimes by the "station pilot" (e.g. a Jinty 0-6-0T), sometimes banked by the incoming locp.

 

[Sun Chariot]

Long distance arrivals stock was often taken to Edge Hill

Thank goodness those trains weren't gravity lioose-shunted back to Lime Street from there...

 

[Rescars]

Penzance in the days of steam to save time. Coaches were pushed out of the arrival platform by the train loco then, when this was clear the guard allowed them to run back into the platform on the handbrake. Bodmin General used a novel method for running around clay trains from Boscarne. The brake van would be fly-shunted down the engine release loop, over the engine release crossover and into the platform road. The signalman reset the points at just the right moment and the van bounced off the stop blocks and onto the wagons. This didn't always end in success either.....

I've seen the Bodmin General technique being tried out with Hornby "O" gauge tin plate, but never with the real thing!

 

[norbitonflyer]

Also, can someone please explain how it was possible to loose shunt carriages fitted with fully charged Westinghouse brakes?

It is certainly possible for automatic brakes to be "off" whilst not connected to a source of vacuum (or compressed air), by closing (deliberately or otherwise) the valve at the end of the carriage or rake whilst there is a vacuum (or pressure) in the system. It takes time for the brakes to leak on.

This was routinely done for slip coaches. It was also the cause of the recent runaway of the Caledonian Sleeper at Edinburgh, when the valve between the loco and leading coach was inadvertently closed at Carstairs after the brakes were released. Although never officially confirmed, a similar failure to ensure the loco and coaches were connected pneumatically after a loco change was the probable cause of the Grantham disaster in 1908.

Brakes can also be released in order to move a vehicle or unit on which the brakes are inoperable because of a failure or simply lack of power. This is how new electric units are delivered from Derby. ("Blow through" I think the term is - braking force is provided fore and aft by vehicles that are connected by pipes running through, over or under the unbraked vehicles. (The importance of having braked vehicles both sides of the unbraked vehicle was amply demonstarted by the runaway on the Northern Line a few years ago)

 

[ac6000cw]

It is certainly possible for automatic brakes to be "off" whilst not connected to a source of vacuum (or compressed air), by closing (deliberately or otherwise) the valve at the end of the carriage or rake whilst there is a vacuum (or pressure) in the system. It takes time for the brakes to leak on.

Traditional automatic air brakes don't leak on, they leak OFF if the vehicle/train is isolated from the source of compressed air. That's been the cause of countless runaway accidents around the world over the 150+ years since it was invented, where insufficient handbrakes have been applied and the air slowly leaks away. It was the primary cause of the Lac-Mégantic disaster in 2013 (a train of crude oil was parked unattended on a gradient, relying on the loco air compressor to compensate for the normal leakage along the train, loco developed a small fire and was shut down by fire brigade, train brakes leaked off and the applied handbrakes weren't enough to stop it rolling away....)

 

[Rescars]

Many thanks to all for your explanations of ways to circumvent continuous automatic brakes - and the perils of relying on them to remain effective over a long period.

 

[thesignalman]

It was also used on occasions at Windermere. On at least one occasion they seriously overdid it.

Not really "on occasions" - it was the only way to release the engine of a loco-hauled train at Windermere, and probably at the other locations mentioned too. I don't suppose gravitation would have been done anywhere if there was another way.

John

 

[norbitonflyer]

Traditional automatic air brakes don't leak on, they leak OFF if the vehicle/train is isolated from the source of compressed air. That's been the cause of countless runaway accidents around the world over the 150+ years since it was invented, where insufficient handbrakes have been applied and the air slowly leaks away. handbrakes weren't enough to stop it rolling away....)

I'm very confused now. I thought the whole point of continuous brakes was that they are "on" at atmospheric pressure and held "off" by vacuum or air pressure, so that if the train gets parted the airlines come apart, the ends are exposed to atmospheric pressure, and the brakes come on.

 

[ac6000cw]

I thought the whole point of continuous brakes was that they are "on" at atmospheric pressure and held "off" by vacuum or air pressure, so that if the train gets parted the airlines come apart, the ends are exposed to atmospheric pressure, and the brakes come on.

That's correct, but the force to actually apply the brake shoes (tread brakes) or pads (disc brakes) is compressed air from a reservoir on each vehicle. Because the brake system has rubber seals in it which inevitably leak slightly, the compressed air in the reservoir (and in the brake cylinders/actuators if the brakes are applied) slowly leaks away if the vehicle or train is disconnected from the loco, or the loco air compressor isn't running.

This is quite a good article about the basics of how automatic air brakes work - http://www.railway-technical.com/trains/rolling-stock-index-l/train-equipment/brakes/

 

[Rescars]

In a somewhat similar way, a vacuum brake creates a vacuum on both sides of the piston in the brake cylinder when the vacuum is initially created. In this state of equilibrium, the brakes rest in the off position. Admission of air to the brake pipe destroys the vacuum on one side of the piston, the differential in pressure applying the brake. If left unattended / unexhausted for a long period, the vacuum on the other side of the piston slowly dissipates, resulting in the brake gently returning to the off position.

 

[Taunton]

It is certainly possible for automatic brakes to be "off" whilst not connected to a source of vacuum (or compressed air), by closing (deliberately or otherwise) the valve at the end of the carriage or rake whilst there is a vacuum (or pressure) in the system. It takes time for the brakes to leak on.

This was routinely done for slip coaches.

Slip coaches had a special attachment on both ends of the vacuum pipe (and also on the steam heating pipe, for winter use), which was connected by mechanism to the slip guard's lever, so that when this was pulled both ends were sealed. A breakaway at any other point would apply the brakes in the normal manner. Slip coaches also had large vacuum cylinders underneath which retained the vacuum charge, allowing the slip guard to make several brake applications without issue. Someone will have a drawing of all the elements.

 

[edwin_m]

That's correct, but the force to actually apply the brake shoes (tread brakes) or pads (disc brakes) is compressed air from a reservoir on each vehicle. Because the brake system has rubber seals in it which inevitably leak slightly, the compressed air in the reservoir (and in the brake cylinders/actuators if the brakes are applied) slowly leaks away if the vehicle or train is disconnected from the loco, or the loco air compressor isn't running.

This is why hand brakes should be applied whenever a freight train is unattended, and failure to apply enough of them was the cause of a disaster a few years ago when much of the small community of Lac Megantic on the US-Canada border was obliterated by a runaway oil train. Modern passenger multiple units have spring-applied brakes that apply automatically if there is no air pressure, which are strong enough to keep a parked train stopped but not to stop a moving one. But freight wagons invariably have to have parking brakes applied by hand, usually with a wheel on the wagon side but occasionally a lever.