Running wrong direction down a line.

[Failed Unit]

Just interested what the process needs to be here, in my example we have the following. (From last Thursday)

1733 London Kings Cross - Harrogate fails at Hatfield
1803 London Kings Cross - Skipton and a Brighton - Cambridge service trapped behind it.

Initially all trains used the slow lines and the fast lines were blocked.

About 1900 all trains were stopped so the 2 services that were stuck directly behind the failed unit, we directed by the teams to go back to Potters Bar and then cross to the slow to continue north.

Just interested for this move would that have effectively blocked all 4 running lines while it happened? I didn't see anything travel south during that period, but that could very easily be because there was no stock to run the services anyway. I know that they didn't know how long the 1733 would be at Hatfield, but would they also need staff on the ground to run the trains in the wrong direction?

 

[Steddenm]

I've been on a GWR service that was behind another one on the fast lines out of Paddington which had been involved in an incident. At Heathrow Junction, we started reversing a few hundred feet before stopping and then the power being turned off (the pantograph dropped). After 5 mins we kicked into diesel mode and onto the slow lines passing the affected unit at 5mph before speeding up and crossing back over further up the line.

 

[westcoaster]

Unsignalled wrong direction movements happen quite often, especially if a train has/ will be stuck for a protracted length of time.

Signaller's and driver will be in communication via the GSMR about the whole move to be made.

 

[zwk500]

Just interested for this move would that have effectively blocked all 4 running lines while it happened? I didn't see anything travel south during that period, but that could very easily be because there was no stock to run the services anyway. I know that they didn't know how long the 1733 would be at Hatfield, but would they also need staff on the ground to run the trains in the wrong direction?

Staff on the ground would only be needed if the points needed to be manually worked for whatever reason. Otherwise the Signaller and driver will call each other on the GSMR, make sure they know the plan, then the signaller will set the points and any signals he needs to clear, then give the driver the appropriate instructions to pass signals at danger (they may have to talk them by more than one). Signallers will normally be able to control individual sets of points (or pairs for crossovers) from the Panel/Frame/Workstation without needing actual routes to be called for them.

 

[Failed Unit]

Thanks everyone. Just interested as nothing seemed to move on the slow northbound while the train was reversed down the fast northbound. But then best to keep the signalling staff focused on one task.

 

[43055]

Thanks everyone. Just interested as nothing seemed to move on the slow northbound while the train was reversed down the fast northbound. But then best to keep the signalling staff focused on one task.

The route that the reversal was probably into platform 4 at Potters Bar which is on the slow line. Maybe the full route has to be set while the train is reversing which would mean the northbound lines would of been blocked for this time. Some long distance services looked to have run via the Hertford Loop around this time.

 

[Failed Unit]

The route that the reversal was probably into platform 4 at Potters Bar which is on the slow line. Maybe the full route has to be set while the train is reversing which would mean the northbound lines would of been blocked for this time. Some long distance services looked to have run via the Hertford Loop around this time.

We passed the LNER after it finished its reversal, it was waiting between Hadley Wood and Potters Bar, waiting to use the cross-over onto 4. That was really why I was wondering if we had to wait while it was reversing. We were at Hadley Wood at the time, but the internet was rubbish so I couldn't see "real time" to watch what trains were doing what.

 

[PeterC]

A C2C train was stuck on the Down Electric at Maryland on Saturday. My TfL train right behind was routed on to the Up Main to use platform 3. According to RTT the following trains used the Down Main as would be expected .

It's the first time that I have seen a train on the wrong line on the GEML

 

[Ken H]

I assume there is no bi-directional signaling in the Hatfield area.
How would that have affected how the incident was handled?

 

[Snow1964]

There are a few places on the network where facing crossovers exist to allow wrong line working. I know Worting Junction (west of Basingstoke) has (or had) them because we got routed through them during engineering work about 30 years ago, long before Simbids was installed towards Winchester.

It saved a Z reversal but must have used signalman permission as there were no signals in reverse Direction on fast lines to Basingstoke then

 

[norbitonflyer]

I have travrlled "wrong road" from near Queenstown Road to Vauxhall because of some incident ahead. We were delayed for nearly three hours before authority to move was given - presumably there had been other trains backed up behind us that had to move first. Unfortunately no staff at Vauxhall seemed to have a clue what to do with us ehen we eventually got back there.

 

[Skarpur]

The route that the reversal was probably into platform 4 at Potters Bar which is on the slow line. Maybe the full route has to be set while the train is reversing which would mean the northbound lines would of been blocked for this time. Some long distance services looked to have run via the Hertford Loop around this time.

There had been signal failure around Potters Bar (I think) which led to quite a bit out of Kings Cross being cancelled around 1400. The 1430 to Edinburgh had additional stops at Stevenage and Grantham.

Not sure how how long it impacted service, and could be totally unrelated to the services you're referencing with being a few hours later.

 

[66701GBRF]

Just interested what the process needs to be here, in my example we have the following. (From last Thursday)

1733 London Kings Cross - Harrogate fails at Hatfield
1803 London Kings Cross - Skipton and a Brighton - Cambridge service trapped behind it.

Initially all trains used the slow lines and the fast lines were blocked.

About 1900 all trains were stopped so the 2 services that were stuck directly behind the failed unit, we directed by the teams to go back to Potters Bar and then cross to the slow to continue north.

Just interested for this move would that have effectively blocked all 4 running lines while it happened? I didn't see anything travel south during that period, but that could very easily be because there was no stock to run the services anyway. I know that they didn't know how long the 1733 would be at Hatfield, but would they also need staff on the ground to run the trains in the wrong direction?

There were various blocks put on for various staff members to attend the train and investigate. This may have been at the same time the two trains were performing the wrong direction moves so it might have looked like the lines were blocked for those moves but was in fact for the previously mentioned staff access/investigation.

 

[Ken H]

There were various blocks put on for various staff members to attend the train and investigate. This may have been at the same time the two trains were performing the wrong direction moves so it might have looked like the lines were blocked for those moves but was in fact for the previously mentioned staff access/investigation.

Surely, if you are managing wrong line working you need to take special measures to ensure anyone out on the track is safe? So the lines may be closed while investigation occurs. And wrong direction working cancelled.

 

[Failed Unit]

In this case it would make sense. The failed unit was at Hatfield. The wrong line working took the trains away from the incident. So sort of win-win

 

[High Dyke]

Surely, if you are managing wrong line working you need to take special measures to ensure anyone out on the track is safe? So the lines may be closed while investigation occurs. And wrong direction working cancelled.

I was seeing this unfold on Open Train Times mapping facility. The two trapped trains were set back into Potters Bar on the Down Fast, but then also authorised to set back to the approach side of the crossover to permit access to the Down Slow.

Any inspection of the failed train would not affect the two trains trapped behind, but an nspection may have been permitted whilst the wrong direction moves were taking place away from the affected area.

Equally, only one train would move under wrong direction instructions, and the signallers in York would be relying on the traincrew and/or Network Rail response staff to provide Mk.1 eyeball contact from site.