Saturdays on the railway in general

[BPN2022]

Where to start. Today is a non strike Saturday which seems quite rare at the minute.

However, Avanti have still cancelled 15 or so services from their already reduced Saturday timetable. With about 20 other alterations, at 11am - so bound to probably get worse over the course of the day.

The 2031 Euston-Preston is one of them, which is the last northbound of the day. Bound to be busy with various events on in London. What on earth do these people do?

Saturdays really are the pits to travel at the minute on this network. They have been since Post-COVID I have noticed. Even railway enthusiasts like myself, are starting to get put off and find alternative methods. It is a mess. There is all sorts of cancellations on Saturdays across other TOCs too, it’s not just Avanti.

Sundays never seem to be so badly affected generally speaking, except with Northern/TPE. Bust most TOCs across the country struggle on Saturdays - GTR being another.

Why is this day of the week so bad? Most rosters surely include Saturday, not Sunday which is voluntary in a few. Do people not volunteer for Saturday rest day because of it being a crap day to work? Don’t get me wrong, I used to work weekends and now don’t - so I understand.

For the railway workers on here, do you work extra Saturday if needed or is the day generally an avoid unless your booked on?

 

[LCC106]

I don’t do any Rest Day Work but imagine people like to have Saturdays for friends and family time. There are usually some that like to grab RDW for the money. Each to their own. COVID caused all sorts of problems with training bubbles so there may still be a backlog of trainees in the system waiting to pass out. A shortage of drivers means fewer people for RDW.

 

[driver9000]

Looking at my own company there are actually far fewer cancellations and alterations today than there typically is during the week. Saturday is a normal working day but there is typically engineering work carried out at weekends which will affect the timetable as well as the ongoing rostering difficulties. It may be that leisure travellers notice the disruption more on weekends as that is when they travel rather than during the week.

Personally I work my booked weekends only and never work weekends when they are my rest days. I have a young family and while my children are of school ages I want to spend my weekend off with them. I also limit myself in what I do work in terms of RDW to a couple of days per month.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Very rare for my TOC to get cancellations, many depots are oversubscribed. However, there are maybe 3 or 4 guards who make themselves available for RDW on Saturday's, the vast majority will refuse any extra work on the weekend as that's the only chance most of us have to spend with family and friends. We even pay 1.25 rate for RDW on Saturday's but it doesn't make much of a difference either way.

Also, the services and diagrams are terrible compared to a weekday. Especially this time of year, you couldn't get me to work an extra Friday/Saturday late turn for love nor money. Too many drunks/idiots/sports fans.

 

[43066]

It’s far and away the worst day of the week to be at work on the railway due to the issues mentioned above (drunks, football fans etc.). Many traincrew are rostered to work two out of three Saturdays anyway, so it’s unlikely to be a popular choice for rest day work.

 

[gka472l]

Done plenty of Saturday RDW's and will continue to do so, however as front line rail staff, I personally avoid travelling anywhere on the trains Saturday/Sunday if I'm off......

 

[SussexSeagull]

Very rare for my TOC to get cancellations, many depots are oversubscribed. However, there are maybe 3 or 4 guards who make themselves available for RDW on Saturday's, the vast majority will refuse any extra work on the weekend as that's the only chance most of us have to spend with family and friends. We even pay 1.25 rate for RDW on Saturday's but it doesn't make much of a difference either way.

Also, the services and diagrams are terrible compared to a weekday. Especially this time of year, you couldn't get me to work an extra Friday/Saturday late turn for love nor money. Too many drunks/idiots/sports fans.

Speaking as a football fan then very much job done getting rid of me as I wouldn't dream of getting a train to an away match in the north from the south coast as they are either on strike, closed for engineering or with an extremely poor service.

If the industry is going to get sniffy about how is deemed worthy of using it then frankly it deserves everything it gets.

 

[STINT47]

It's not just the railways that struggle on a Saturday..

I work for a bus company and we get more cancellations on a Saturday due to not having enough drivers. No one wants to do overtime on a Saturday due to the people they have to deal with and a desire to enjoy the weekend away from work. If you add in that overtime is freely available on other days in the week then we get few takers.

More recruitment is the answer but there isn't a short term fix for public transport on Saturday's.

 

[LowLevel]

Speaking as a football fan then very much job done getting rid of me as I wouldn't dream of getting a train to an away match in the north from the south coast as they are either on strike, closed for engineering or with an extremely poor service.

If the industry is going to get sniffy about how is deemed worthy of using it then frankly it deserves everything it gets.

The problem is the vocal minority who cause problems.

Today I booked on at work. I was confronted on leaving the office with a tidal wave of football fans shouting. I got to my train, which they'd helpfully wrecked, with cans and bottles spilt and dumped everywhere.

On the way I passed another guard who had been pushed out of their train and called a four letter word starting with c by another group of fans - they were walking off the job and going home causing a pair of cancellations.

On arrival at a station I was met with another group of fans (so that's 3 naughty minority groups already in an hour) who wouldn't stop leaning on the side of my train preventing it from departing and stopping their own from arriving and had a go at me when I asked them to move. The same was being replicated on other platforms.

Later I have a load of race goers and a beer festival to contend with.

I work Saturdays because I've always liked a drink myself and have a pretty high tolerance for misbehaviour. I've been thrown up on, sworn at, threatened and had to carry unconscious people around etc.

Like my colleague above I do work them as overtime because I am loathe to undertake any leisure activity on a Saturday so unless I visit my folks or volunteer at a heritage railway I may as well earn some extra money. I very rarely use the train on a Saturday unless I really have to.

Saturdays in the UK are not pleasant to be around.

 

[Snow1964]

Saturdays really are the pits to travel at the minute on this network. They have been since Post-COVID I have noticed. Even railway enthusiasts like myself, are starting to get put off and find alternative methods. It is a mess. There is all sorts of cancellations on Saturdays across other TOCs too, it’s not just Avanti.

Luckily down here in South West don’t get that many cancellations on Saturdays, if anything they occur more during the week.

But then this area was more leisure orientated, and people are more used to doing things during the week to avoid crowds and tourists.

Our problems are not cancellations, but the inability of the TOC to find sufficient rolling stock and avoid single units being used.

 

[Halwynd]

SX has been my rule for quite a few years for the reasons already given, even before the current timetabling mess, and I have much sympathy for the front line staff who have to work with the sort of people who can make travelling on Saturdays such an unpleasant experience for others. Its one problem you can't blame the railway for.

 

[Iskra]

The problem is the vocal minority who cause problems.

Today I booked on at work. I was confronted on leaving the office with a tidal wave of football fans shouting. I got to my train, which they'd helpfully wrecked, with cans and bottles spilt and dumped everywhere.

On the way I passed another guard who had been pushed out of their train and called a four letter word starting with c by another group of fans - they were walking off the job and going home causing a pair of cancellations.

On arrival at a station I was met with another group of fans (so that's 3 naughty minority groups already in an hour) who wouldn't stop leaning on the side of my train preventing it from departing and stopping their own from arriving and had a go at me when I asked them to move. The same was being replicated on other platforms.

Later I have a load of race goers and a beer festival to contend with.

I work Saturdays because I've always liked a drink myself and have a pretty high tolerance for misbehaviour. I've been thrown up on, sworn at, threatened and had to carry unconscious people around etc.

Like my colleague above I do work them as overtime because I am loathe to undertake any leisure activity on a Saturday so unless I visit my folks or volunteer at a heritage railway I may as well earn some extra money. I very rarely use the train on a Saturday unless I really have to.

Saturdays in the UK are not pleasant to be around.

Can the railway do without its weekend trade in the age of working from home however?

Additionally, most football fans are just regular people that you wouldn’t even know were football fans, if the railway provides an inadequate service to them on a weekend, when it comes to making their business/leisure journey decisions during the rest of the week, their opinion is likely to be already tainted against using the railway, which is something of a vicious cycle.

I do agree however that there is a cultural issue in the UK where a sizeable number of people don’t seem to be able to enjoy themselves without getting drunk and these people are certainly not fun to be around when you’re sober, as I often experience on my local line (and usually they aren’t football fans).

 

[Sporty60]

Well I'm glad people have mentioned drunken behaviour as I witnessed that on a XC double voyager to Plymouth a few Saturdays ago.
Two lots a footbal fans as bad as each other having loud, lewd and crude conversations in the hearing of several single young women in the carriage.
The train manager being in the other set.
Not good.

 

[Sunil_P]

Saturdays used to be good for Parlies.

On Saturday 2nd Nov 2019 I did Gainsborough to Wrawby (eastbound only)
On Saturday 21st Dec 2019 I did Guide Bridge to Stockport (both ways)

 

[afc75]

Today was an absolute disaster on Greater Anglia.

I queued for 90 mins at Ingatestone for a rail replacement. West Ham, Tottenham, RLWQ Semi @ Arsenal..........seemed to have caught them by surprise?

 

[Sleepy]

I won't volunteer for RDW on Saturdays as you would usually get a late turn which isn't pleasant (unless working early Sunday of course) Extra Sundays are easy to come by and pax generally much better behaved ! My TOC doesn't seem to suffer with GTR type mass Saturday cancellations however as some will work all the extra shifts they can get.

 

[dk1]

I don’t mind working Saturdays but if it’s FDW it has to be done by 20:00 at the latest or I can’t be bothered.

 

[Alfie1014]

Today was an absolute disaster on Greater Anglia.

I queued for 90 mins at Ingatestone for a rail replacement. West Ham, Tottenham, RLWQ Semi @ Arsenal..........seemed to have caught them by surprise?

GA pre pandemic used to be very good in managing rail replacement, in my experience it usually was pretty seamless, longer journey times but that’s to be expected but the actual operation used to be slick loads of staff and buses. However now it’s perfect storm of potentially larger volumes combined with the impossibility of getting enough drivers for the buses and general pressures on cost from above to supply the barest minimum. Today’s experience simply reenforces my view that travelling at weekends when there are no trains running is now sadly to be avoided. Not looking forward to post Christmas when I have to travel and the GEML is bustituted again as per normal at that time of year.

 

[bramling]

Where to start. Today is a non strike Saturday which seems quite rare at the minute.

However, Avanti have still cancelled 15 or so services from their already reduced Saturday timetable. With about 20 other alterations, at 11am - so bound to probably get worse over the course of the day.

The 2031 Euston-Preston is one of them, which is the last northbound of the day. Bound to be busy with various events on in London. What on earth do these people do?

Saturdays really are the pits to travel at the minute on this network. They have been since Post-COVID I have noticed. Even railway enthusiasts like myself, are starting to get put off and find alternative methods. It is a mess. There is all sorts of cancellations on Saturdays across other TOCs too, it’s not just Avanti.

Sundays never seem to be so badly affected generally speaking, except with Northern/TPE. Bust most TOCs across the country struggle on Saturdays - GTR being another.

Why is this day of the week so bad? Most rosters surely include Saturday, not Sunday which is voluntary in a few. Do people not volunteer for Saturday rest day because of it being a crap day to work? Don’t get me wrong, I used to work weekends and now don’t - so I understand.

For the railway workers on here, do you work extra Saturday if needed or is the day generally an avoid unless your booked on?

People don’t like working weekends, and also there is probably still a tendency to pinch people off Saturdays (being the last day of the week) to cover weekday jobs which are naturally regarded as more important. You can also add that in some places weekend duties tend to be worse (work crammed in to reduce the number of duties) so people are less keen on working them.

 

[Monty]

I absolutely detest working Saturdays now, by far the busiest day of the week. Unfortunately the general experience for me is awful and bad behaviour is common place and not from just the 'usual' suspects. I often think in this post covid world we find ourselves in where working from home is far common, people who are cooped up at home all week tend to go absolutely bananas as soon as Saturday comes around.

Trains are routinely wrecked and there often isn't enough cleaners to keep up, there is also a complete lack of leadership during the weekends too with only a handful of on call managers. As bad as it sounds I absolutely refuse to do RDW during the weekend, I only get one weekend off in 3 anyway so I'm certainly not going to give it up anytime soon.

 

[afc75]

GA pre pandemic used to be very good in managing rail replacement, in my experience it usually was pretty seamless, longer journey times but that’s to be expected but the actual operation used to be slick loads of staff and buses. However now it’s perfect storm of potentially larger volumes combined with the impossibility of getting enough drivers for the buses and general pressures on cost from above to supply the barest minimum. Today’s experience simply reenforces my view that travelling at weekends when there are no trains running is now sadly to be avoided. Not looking forward to post Christmas when I have to travel and the GEML is bustituted again as per normal at that time of year.

Yes, it was usually annoying but quick onto buses.

Today i felt sorry for staff dealing with issues.......and passengers that clearly missed 3pm kick offs, amomgst other things.

I was kinda lucky to be on a longer journey and not time constrained per se....

 

[dk1]

Yes, it was usually annoying but quick onto buses.

Today i felt sorry for staff dealing with issues.......and passengers that clearly missed 3pm kick offs, amomgst other things.

I was kinda lucky to be on a longer journey and not time constrained per se....

Not sure what went so wrong today as it usually works well at Ingatestone & has done for several decades. The ‘Hare Fares’ promotion has also proved to be far too popular & very unrestrictive too so that will have added to the numbers travelling. Services on the Norwich-Stansted route have suffered badly with delays compounded by severe overcrowding as some try to avoid the RR buses.

 

[afc75]

Not sure what went so wrong today as it usually works well at Ingatestone & has done for several decades. The ‘Hare Fares’ promotion has also proved to be far too popular & very unrestrictive too so that will have added to the numbers travelling. Services on the Norwich-Stansted route have suffered badly with delays compounded by severe overcrowding as some try to avoid the RR buses.

Yeah. It was astoundingly bad today. For non regular rail users, their future custom is lost.

Quite a bit of this should have been foreseen. Tottenham, West Ham, Rugby SF all kicking off around 3pm (plus Lord Mayor's show earlier)......and i have no doubt others can point to more London events.

Does make me think it might be an idea 2 have more engineering works midweek.

 

[STINT47]

If bad behaviour is causing issues on Saturday could the BTP be asked to increase their patrols? It could then help persuade staff to work more Saturdays.

 

[danielcanning]

Not sure what went so wrong today as it usually works well at Ingatestone & has done for several decades. The ‘Hare Fares’ promotion has also proved to be far too popular & very unrestrictive too so that will have added to the numbers travelling. Services on the Norwich-Stansted route have suffered badly with delays compounded by severe overcrowding as some try to avoid the RR buses.

Network rail need to now seriously think about suspending non urgent engineering works until the bus driver shortage is addressed, waiting 90 mins for a rail replacement bus is not acceptable.

 

[dk1]

Yeah. It was astoundingly bad today. For non regular rail users, their future custom is lost.

Quite a bit of this should have been foreseen. Tottenham, West Ham, Rugby SF all kicking off around 3pm (plus Lord Mayor's show earlier)......and i have no doubt others can point to more London events.

Does make me think it might be an idea 2 have more engineering works midweek.

That’s a difficult one now commuter numbers are picking up then there’s the sheer amount of freight that uses the GEML.

 

[afc75]

That’s a difficult one now commuter numbers are picking up then there’s the sheer amount of freight that uses the GEML.

But the commuter numbers (80-95%) would work from home.

Leisure travellers trying to reach events. Need to use train, or use alterantives to train?

 

[Pompey00]

There’s also a lot of engineering over the weekends as easier to do it then compares to a weekday.

 

[dk1]

But the commuter numbers (80-95%) would work from home.

Leisure travellers trying to reach events. Need to use train, or use alterantives to train?

I don’t think that’s quite how it works with working from home . That doesn’t help everyone else travelling or the freight. Those upset by today will obviously not be happy for a week or two but in my experience soon start travelling again as the other transport options aren’t great either.

 

[Snow1964]

Network rail need to now seriously think about suspending non urgent engineering works until the bus driver shortage is addressed, waiting 90 mins for a rail replacement bus is not acceptable.

If going to advertise a rail replacement bus, then either needs to be provided (enough to take the train loading), or need to do it another time when buses are available.

Need to stop treating it as an afterthought, and book it late, and ensure got confirmations from bus companies before rail works are commitied.

On a line equipped with simple or full reversible signalling, need to consider alternatives when buses not available, even if that is occasional windows in the works to let train pass on other track. Yes it means more care, but no more than a ballast or spoil train coming alongside the work zone.