Scania/MCW Metropolitans

[Typhoon]

WMPTE had one, 6299. It also had a Metro Scania single deck, which I rarely saw - I believe it was mainly used on limited stop routes.

 

[David Verity]

WMPTE had one, 6299. It also had a Metro Scania single deck, which I rarely saw - I believe it was mainly used on limited stop routes.

I have one of Malcolm Keeley's books in which he says it was the resident vehicle on a service 993 Birmingham Airport - fleet number 4242

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It was actually the 50 similarly-bodied Atlanteans that went to Northern General, along with the last ten of the final batch of Atlanteans.


Likewise, Glasgow, by then Strathclyde PTE, got shot of its 40 in 1981-82 on expiry of their CoFs.

Sorry - don't know why I said Fleetlines! I know they were Atlanteans - the last MCW bodies built on the YNL-V. I'm tired but thanks for spotting that The ten EJR-W Atlanteans transferred to Northern without being used by the PTE too.

Never travelled on the TWPTE Metropolitans. At that time, my budget extended to the occasional Explorer tickets and, unlike today, you couldn't use them on PTE/Busways services (or any route wholly within T&W before de-reg). I confess, have never travelled on any Metropolitan. I always thought that they were slightly exotic compared to Atlanteans and VRs; bit like the kid at school whose dad had a Saab or a Citroen whilst your family (if you had a car) had something much more "white bread" like an Austin 1100.

 

[Typhoon]

I have one of Malcolm Keeley's books in which he says it was the resident vehicle on a service 993 Birmingham Airport - fleet number 4242

Thanks. Don't remember the 993; it wasn't the main route to the airport, that was the 900 for most of my time in Birmingham (now X1). Presumably ran from some suburbs, possibly peak hours. Could be why I hardly saw it.

 

[busesrusuk]

A couple of other users of Metropolitans were Merseyside PTE and Kingston Upon Hull (60 and 30 respectively). Both went on to buy Metrobuses but MPTE tried just about everything including more Scania buses.

I thought they were great buses which were quiet and fast - especially acceleration. its a shame they didn't last that long and even more of a shame that only a very small number were preserved. I have a few pics in service with WYPTE, London and Leicester but have yet to scan them. Here are a couple of pics of the two that are regulars on the rally circuit:

Perserved LT MD60 Aug18 | Buses Festival, Gaydon. Aug 2018 | Flickr
Preserved Leicester 301 Aug19 | Buses festival, Gaydon. Aug … | Flickr

It would be great to see the preserved Reading bus back on the scene but I don't think its been seen for ages - I hope it is alive and well...

 

[Swanny200]

Were the single deckers also classed as Metropolitans or were they just the double deck design?

 

[David Verity]

Were the single deckers also classed as Metropolitans or were they just the double deck design?

The saloon was known as the Metro Scania. Production came to an early conclusion - Tom Knowles relates how he was impressed sufficiently to want to order some for Lancaster but was told it was too late, unless he was prepared to underwrite the cost of reopening - and closing - the production line again. So he bought Leopards.

 

[bobslack1982]

Yes then the odd, dare I say Nottingham Lion look C reg Alexander bodied ones with the very large front bumper, which some of them lost later on in life.

I actually prefer them with the big ‘HELP’ bumpers for some reason. They look really odd without them!

Not to mention five Metrobuses which had a bit of a stop/start existence.

I’d completel forgotten about those actually!

 

[Statto]

A couple of other users of Metropolitans were Merseyside PTE and Kingston Upon Hull (60 and 30 respectively). Both went on to buy Metrobuses but MPTE tried just about everything including more Scania buses.

I thought they were great buses which were quiet and fast - especially acceleration. its a shame they didn't last that long and even more of a shame that only a very small number were preserved. I have a few pics in service with WYPTE, London and Leicester but have yet to scan them. Here are a couple of pics of the two that are regulars on the rally circuit:

Perserved LT MD60 Aug18 | Buses Festival, Gaydon. Aug 2018 | Flickr
Preserved Leicester 301 Aug19 | Buses festival, Gaydon. Aug … | Flickr

It would be great to see the preserved Reading bus back on the scene but I don't think its been seen for ages - I hope it is alive and well...

I was going to mention Merseyside PTE having a batch of Metropolitans, of the operators that brought Metropolitans, Merseyside brought the most outside London, given fleetnumbers 4021 to 4080[the single deck version, the Metro Scania was 4001 to 4020], 4066 was hit by an arson attack, [i think may have been repaired], most stayed with MPTE until early 80s, only a handful left by 85 & all were gone by 86, some MPTE ones were sold to Hull

Metropolitans didn't last long with GMPTE, i believe they were all gone by the time they were 7 years old

I'm too young to remember the Metropolitan, they were all gone from my area by the time i started traveling on buses

 

[Brooke]

Whippet were definitely using one or two until at least 1997

I worked in Cambridge in 1998-99 and I’m pretty sure one at least was still around then. Someone will likely pop up with photographic proof either way!

 

[busesrusuk]

Actually Tyne & Wear PTE bought 140 and West Yorkshire PTE bought 95. Merseyside had 60 - still a large fleet compared to some others...

 

[flymo]

I worked at Tyner and Wear PTE from 1982 and unfortunately got to know the Metropolitans quite well. The rear end bodywork was their downfall with many having to have basically a whole new framework fitted to stop the upper deck rear collapsing. Mechanically they were brilliant to drive, electrically (my world) they were a bit of a challenge sometimes. On the JVK-6xxP things they had the heater motors under the bus so every year when they came in for MOT the motors were basically scrapped as they were a solid lump of road debris. The 7xx series had these wedged under the stairs and being a skinny lad (back then) I was the one wedged in there to clean then etc. All of them never produced any heat.... The 4xx series were better and the single doors gave a better feel inside the bus.
All of these things had an incredibly 'active' (if I may be kind here) suspension with many a wild ride on the 21 along Scotswood Road with the thing rocking from side to side basically almost hitting the suspension limits on each rock. The driver would then hit the brakes to slow it and steady it before hitting the loud pedal and off we go again. Rollercoaster specials they were .!! .And yes only a 2-speed box which took about 30 minutes to change but they did struggle up hills. If these were on the school bus 18 to Walbottle then guaranteed you had to get off and walk up the hill and get on again at the top, Electric fans in the engine bay and for radiator cooling all added to the fun and my holiday budget....

So much overtime working on these I bought my first car with the Saturday and Sunday morning money we got for keeping these on the road, one rail trip up North I saw one parked up near Brora station. Looked sad...

Let's not get onto 413 the 'haunted bus'. Driving it one day on test and heard the bell ring and footsteps upstairs. Went up to investigate and nobody there, kept the doors open all the way back to the depot. Later in its life I believe it was actually exorcised by the 'Flashing Blade' Alan Robson. Still get goosebumps thinking about that bus.....

Loved working on them, really do not miss them but they were 'of their time'. You just don't get buses with that sort of character these days. !!!

 

[David Verity]

A couple of other users of Metropolitans were Merseyside PTE and Kingston Upon Hull (60 and 30 respectively). Both went on to buy Metrobuses but MPTE tried just about everything including more Scania buses.

I thought they were great buses which were quiet and fast - especially acceleration. its a shame they didn't last that long and even more of a shame that only a very small number were preserved. I have a few pics in service with WYPTE, London and Leicester but have yet to scan them. Here are a couple of pics of the two that are regulars on the rally circuit:

Perserved LT MD60 Aug18 | Buses Festival, Gaydon. Aug 2018 | Flickr
Preserved Leicester 301 Aug19 | Buses festival, Gaydon. Aug … | Flickr

It would be great to see the preserved Reading bus back on the scene but I don't think its been seen for ages - I hope it is alive and well...

And Hull relieved Merseyside of seven of theirs when they were up for disposal.

They were ordered by Leeds City Transport, but delivered to WYPTE and diverted to Bradford District to improve the age-profile of that fleet as Bradford City Transport had ceased to order new vehicles in the run-up to the creation of the PTE.

At Bradford they enjoyed the protection of the new heated underground garage at the Interchange. Bradford used the highest amount of salt on the roads anywhere in West Yorkshire and on return to the garage they were driven through the bus wash. I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I worked at Tyner and Wear PTE from 1982 and unfortunately got to know the Metropolitans quite well. The rear end bodywork was their downfall with many having to have basically a whole new framework fitted to stop the upper deck rear collapsing. Mechanically they were brilliant to drive, electrically (my world) they were a bit of a challenge sometimes. On the JVK-6xxP things they had the heater motors under the bus so every year when they came in for MOT the motors were basically scrapped as they were a solid lump of road debris. The 7xx series had these wedged under the stairs and being a skinny lad (back then) I was the one wedged in there to clean then etc. All of them never produced any heat.... The 4xx series were better and the single doors gave a better feel inside the bus.
All of these things had an incredibly 'active' (if I may be kind here) suspension with many a wild ride on the 21 along Scotswood Road with the thing rocking from side to side basically almost hitting the suspension limits on each rock. The driver would then hit the brakes to slow it and steady it before hitting the loud pedal and off we go again. Rollercoaster specials they were .!! .And yes only a 2-speed box which took about 30 minutes to change but they did struggle up hills. If these were on the school bus 18 to Walbottle then guaranteed you had to get off and walk up the hill and get on again at the top, Electric fans in the engine bay and for radiator cooling all added to the fun and my holiday budget....

So much overtime working on these I bought my first car with the Saturday and Sunday morning money we got for keeping these on the road, one rail trip up North I saw one parked up near Brora station. Looked sad...

Let's not get onto 413 the 'haunted bus'. Driving it one day on test and heard the bell ring and footsteps upstairs. Went up to investigate and nobody there, kept the doors open all the way back to the depot. Later in its life I believe it was actually exorcised by the 'Flashing Blade' Alan Robson. Still get goosebumps thinking about that bus.....

Loved working on them, really do not miss them but they were 'of their time'. You just don't get buses with that sort of character these days. !!!

Great post.

I was going to mention the hauntingly good looks of 413 to see if anyone got the reference.

 

[JonathanH]

Some interesting pictures of Metropolitan corrosion on a public Reading Transport facebook group here - not sure it is appropriate for me to post anything other than links as they are not my pictures to copy.

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=10217585283046792&set=pcb.3062533493844107
https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=10217585282126769&set=pcb.3062533493844107
https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=10217585282526779&set=pcb.3062533493844107
https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=10217585283686808&set=pcb.3062533493844107

 

[RELL6L]

Such a shame about the corrosion problems as these were wonderful vehicles for passengers and I think the drivers liked them too.

I first saw one when I had a summer job working at Vauxhall and they first appeared on the 36, then the 36A and 36B, I think this was summer 1976. They were such a leap in sophistication from the DMS Fleetline in London it was like they were from another planet. I had to deliver a package to Queens Park (or West Kilburn as the 36B called it) and took two rides on them to do this, much better than the tube. Powerful, comfortable with air suspension, wonderful sound and I had never come across anything like the torque converter and two speed gearbox.

My first proper job I commuted into St Pancras and worked near Blackfriars and so the 63 was my favoured route between the two – hardly ever took the parallel 45. Busy stop-start route but there was a chance that they would go fast enough to experience the gear change. Top gear kicked in about 30 mph and if the driver floored it (which most did) then you might get there a few times. Some were smooth, some very jerky, probably depending on whether the driver lifted off a little. The brakes made a very distinctive squeal quite unlike anything else, but best was the roar when they set off from rest. We had an office with a window right beside a bus stop, you could hear them arrive and hear them leave. They stayed on the 63 longer than any of the other original routes, I don’t know why. On the last day I took a photo of one passing a pub on Farringdon Street called the Metropolitan, but sadly it was too early to record them with sound effects. I did visit Kingston coal yard, as it was called, where three New Cross ones were dumped quite young, but I think they had all had accidents. I did then go to Woolwich where they were all based in later life and seemed to be popular there.

Later I worked in Reading when they were still by far the dominant species in the town, with (I think) 33 native ones plus about 26 London ones and a handful of Tyne and Wear ones. Our office was on a corner near the station by traffic lights and they powered away from rest and round the corner with the suspension putting them at interesting angles even at quite low speeds - or maybe it was the corrosion. The new Metrobuses and Titans here seemed quite pedestrian by comparison.

I also went on them on the 400 Trans Lancs Express around Manchester, on the 60 ring road route in Liverpool, the 30 from Cardiff to Newport. I saw them in Newcastle, Doncaster, Chatham, Hull and Leicester but generally in these places they didn’t go anywhere I wanted to go. A special mention though for Bradford where they all ran from the gloriously acoustic basement bus station they had then. I went on one from Bradford to either Huddersfield or Halifax, it was quite a hilly route and, although brilliant on the flat, they did struggle a little uphill as they would get up enough speed to change into top gear but then were not able to maintain the speed as it steepened, they didn’t drop back down to the lower gear until they were going quite slowly. I didn’t know, until reading this thread, that they had been ordered by Leeds.

Best ride was in the real twilight of their lives. Charles Cook, an independent in Biggleswade, bought a good number, one assumes they were cheap and spares plentiful and they ran them until they fell apart. I joined the return trip of their shopping service to Stevenage one Saturday. With a good load we probably left Stevenage at least 10 minutes late but the driver kept his foot on the loud pedal the whole way up the old A1 as we wallowed round bends and startled the wildlife with the occasional stop for mostly elderly passengers, by then a little green around the gills, to alight. Early arrival in Biggleswade and no letup as the driver roared out of the square. Not seen one in the flesh since.

I should mention the single deck Metro Scania too. There were some of these based at Stevenage (three originally with King Alfred) and they were popular with Leicester and Newport in particular. Merseyside had some too and London had six, one of which ended up in Clapton Pond in its first day in service as the driver no doubt underestimated its power! These were generally louder than the deckers as some form of quietening was introduced later.

Shame they never caught on more widely and that the bodies were so badly made. Sadly missed!

 

[Sprinter107]

As an avid fan of the Metrobus, id have loved a ride on a Metropolitan.

 

[Swanny200]

Is it just me but did West Midlands basically keep MCW in business for a bit as every bus and even coach was MCW, I get that they were local.

 

[Sprinter107]

They werent all MCW. Some of the Fleetlines were Park Royal bodied, they had Scanias, and Ailsas too. There were Leyland Nationals and Lynx buses.

 

[Swanny200]

They werent all MCW. Some of the Fleetlines were Park Royal bodied, they had Scanias, and Ailsas too. There were Leyland Nationals and Lynx buses.

Yes I forgot about the others, just seemed to be all MCW stuff when I was there

 

[DunsBus]

Yes I forgot about the others, just seemed to be all MCW stuff when I was there

Back then, you supported local industry whenever possible - another example of this being the high proportion of Northern Counties bodies in the GMT fleet, as the Northern Counties factory was located in Wigan and within GMT's area. It is true to say that MCW was a key supplier of vehicles to West Midlands until the very end but they were by no means the only one.

 

[flymo]

https://images.app.goo.gl/GcsF7XK6TDXvd3Jw6

I forgot, some of these made it out to here to the far east too. I can just imagine the state of the bodies in this humidity in the summer.

Picture shows a Scania 111 in Hong Kong for CMB.

 

[Roilshead]

. . . West Yorkshire PTE bought 95.

At rthe risk of repeating a previous post, they were ordered by Leeds City Transport, but delivered to the PTE and placed in service in Bradford District.

 

[busesrusuk]

Back then, you supported local industry whenever possible - another example of this being the high proportion of Northern Counties bodies in the GMT fleet, as the Northern Counties factory was located in Wigan and within GMT's area. It is true to say that MCW was a key supplier of vehicles to West Midlands until the very end but they were by no means the only one.

GMT actually had a stake in Northern Counties in the 1970's but as others have said dual sourcing was practiced by many of the larger operators. The GM standard receiving bodies by both NCME and Park Royal. I believe that NCME bodied the bulk of the standards.

Interestingly, despite the Metropolitan being a locally assembled bus, West Midlands weren't keen, only taking one which was the demonstrator (IIRC) but fell in love with the subsequent Metrobus.

I wasn't aware that the WYPTE buses were originally a Leeds order - everything I have read over the years just referred to them as West Yorkshire PTE buses - good to know.

With regards to the far east Metropolitans, CMB took new ones two for evaluation and Argos Bus subsequently bought a few secondhand from LT(3) and Tyne & Wear(2).

 

[Andyh82]

Back then, you supported local industry whenever possible - another example of this being the high proportion of Northern Counties bodies in the GMT fleet, as the Northern Counties factory was located in Wigan and within GMT's area. It is true to say that MCW was a key supplier of vehicles to West Midlands until the very end but they were by no means the only one.

And in a similar way, the vast majority of buses purchased by Leeds and then by WYPTE were bodied by Roe, based in Leeds

 

[David Verity]

And in a similar way, the vast majority of buses purchased by Leeds and then by WYPTE were bodied by Roe, based in Leeds

Yes the Councillors (and Unions) were vociferous in their demands that we bought locally. Didn't do to look around the car park though, to see what they turned up in.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Back then, you supported local industry whenever possible - another example of this being the high proportion of Northern Counties bodies in the GMT fleet, as the Northern Counties factory was located in Wigan and within GMT's area. It is true to say that MCW was a key supplier of vehicles to West Midlands until the very end but they were by no means the only one.

It was commonplace that you bought relatively locally.

Who bodied most of the SBG fleet (and indeed Scottish municipals).... well, that would be Alexander obviously. Most Lancashire municipals would by East Lancs bodied Leylands obviously. Leeds/WYPTE bought from Roe, whilst WMPTE prior to Metrobuses bought lots of Fleetlines (built in Coventry). The most obvious example though was the AEC/Park Royal combo for London Transport (who also bought RTs with Weymann bodies built in Addlestone).

GMPTE had something like a 10% share in Northern Counties IIRC, as mentioned above

 

[JonathanH]

Some were smooth, some very jerky, probably depending on whether the driver lifted off a little. The brakes made a very distinctive squeal quite unlike anything else, but best was the roar when they set off from rest.

My abiding memory of Metropolitans was where they crossed Caversham Bridge in Reading coming from Caversham. The driver would accelerate up the slope to the peak of the bridge and then, on reaching the crest, take their foot off the accelerator. At that point, there would be a shudder effect as the power was taken off. Very characteristic. As you say, a roar from rest as well.

 

[Journeyman]

I was looking at some video footage of MD60, which I think is the only London example of the type in operational condition in the UK. Must try and ride that thing! Love the interior - Metrobus style design, but with the Fleetline colour scheme.

 

[DunsBus]

It was commonplace that you bought relatively locally.

Who bodied most of the SBG fleet (and indeed Scottish municipals).... well, that would be Alexander obviously. Most Lancashire municipals would by East Lancs bodied Leylands obviously. Leeds/WYPTE bought from Roe, whilst WMPTE prior to Metrobuses bought lots of Fleetlines (built in Coventry). The most obvious example though was the AEC/Park Royal combo for London Transport (who also bought RTs with Weymann bodies built in Addlestone).

GMPTE had something like a 10% share in Northern Counties IIRC, as mentioned above

I remember reading about the furore which erupted when Lothian went to ECW, rather than Alexander, for the bodies on its earliest Olympians. So much so, that there were calls for the tender process to be run again to give Alexander another chance!