School buses to be switched to trains

[Snow1964]

BBC are reporting that after summer holidays 10 school buses in Ilkley area will be withdrawn and pupils given rail passes instead, as more cost effective.

Pupils who use the bus to get to a West Yorkshire school could soon be asked to take the train instead.
Bradford Council is asking parents for their views on plans to discontinue buses to Ilkley Grammar School from Menston and Burley-in-Wharfedale.
It said changing from bus to train travel from September would be more cost-effective, and more sustainable.
The authority said all pupils who currently receive free travel will continue to do so.
However, the change from buses to trains would enable the council to remove 10 bus journeys per day from the roads.

Consultation open​

The bus services G23, G24, G25, G26 and G27 are used by hundreds of pupils to travel to and from school.
Bradford Council said it would instead issue railcards to pupils eligible for free transport, which could be used on trains between Ilkley and Burley-in-Wharfedale or Menston.
Fare-paying pupils will also be able to use these services, which run four times an hour at peak times, it said.
It said: "The Local Authority recognises that any change to the current transport offer may result in unforeseen issues that may need addressing.
"It is important to ensure that all interested parties are given the opportunity to express their views for consideration."
Anyone who would like to add their opinion to the consultation has until 31 March to do so.

Ilkley school buses could be swapped for train travel

Bradford Council is consulting on plans to ditch school bus services for Ilkley school pupils.

www.bbc.co.uk

Somewhere in my box of old railway tickets, I have termly pass marked Scholar
Where I grew up schools at the time didn't have sixth forms and a former Grammar school had become a Sixth Form College, so spent 2 years travelling by train to Brockenhurst. The regular morning and afternoon train was always double length (2 4VEP units) even though Hinton Admiral, New Milton, Sway platforms were 6.5 carriages long. We managed, so revival of moving pupils by train interests me quite a lot.

I am guessing the move to PVSAR buses and the lack of drivers have changed the economics back in favour of rail travel

 

[Failed Unit]

It was common in Lincolnshire when I was younger for people going to college in Lincoln - When the 153s were introduced it result in very bad over-crowding and buses were laid on instead. It is a great idea if capacity exists, but soon upsets other users if it results in overcrowding.

 

[Nym]

But of course it does the most important thing, makes it someone else's problem.

 

[robertclark125]

In the 1990s, there was a proposal by Fife Council to transport pupils from Cardenden, to Lochgelly high school, by train, as Lochgelly Station is a few minutes walk away, and most pupils could walk to Cardenden Station in 10-15 minutes. The plan was never carried out.

 

[Dai Corner]

During engineering work earlier this year trains from the Taunton direction were terminating at Weston-super-Mare with buses onwards to Bristol.

However one morning and one afternoon train were extended to/from Nailsea & Backwell for the benefit of schoolchildren travelling between Yatton and Backwell School. I don't know whether the education authority pays their fares. Yatton is in the catchment area and over three miles from the school. They ran coaches when I went there in the 1970s..

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm definitely in support of this. It's a waste of money subsidising bus services that parallel subsidised rail services, so where rail (or existing scheduled bus) can provide the school needs then this should be used before tendering specific school services.

 

[Typhoon]

I can think of areas where this currently happens - and the pupils almost certainly travel for free. Four or five-minute journey, two or three station entrances/ exits, station staffed part-time (single staff member), but not infrequently left unstaffed. Parents grumble when fares/ passes rise in price, blaming 'the council'; bus companies don't end up with vandalised buses (I've been on one that had been bricked) and more difficult staffing rotas. As @Nym (#3) writes it becomes someone else's problem.

 

[edwin_m]

It was common in Lincolnshire when I was younger for people going to college in Lincoln - When the 153s were introduced it result in very bad over-crowding and buses were laid on instead. It is a great idea if capacity exists, but soon upsets other users if it results in overcrowding.

Unlikely to be a concern here. It's against the peak flow of commuters on a route where the trains have a lot more capacity than a 153.

But of course it does the most important thing, makes it someone else's problem.

As above, Northern shouldn't have a problem with this, unless there's some issue with anti-social behaviour.

 

[SLC001]

There is a problem with school buses and that is antisocial behaviour. We have a problem near us (again) and whether it is on the bus or at the bus stop this antisocial behaviour is unacceptable. It does appear that society does not want to address this type of issue whether it is lack of resources or political will, but pushing school children onto trains is not a simple or cheaper solution.

 

[Andyh82]

All these schools are run with double decks, so you could have >200 kids boarding the trains directly before and after school

 

[Bletchleyite]

All these schools are run with double decks, so you could have >200 kids boarding the trains directly before and after school

Good. That's what trains are good at.

I went to school by Merseyrail, and the kids far enough out to get free passes got them by train. It worked fine.

 

[Nym]

There is a problem with school buses and that is antisocial behaviour. We have a problem near us (again) and whether it is on the bus or at the bus stop this antisocial behaviour is unacceptable. It does appear that society does not want to address this type of issue whether it is lack of resources or political will, but pushing school children onto trains is not a simple or cheaper solution.

So by removing the school buses they have completely irradiated the issue of anti social behaviour on and around school buses, job done, right?

 

[Ken H]

You think Burley is a small place, but some parts are over 20 minutes walk from the railway station. Expect the X84 and 962 to become busy at school start and end times. The 962 is a 27 seater bus today.

 

[TUC]

The Esk Valley line used to be used for school travel until Regional Railways North East, taking an approach today's railway echos all too often, withdrew the morning journey at school time in order that the whole daily service only needed one trainset.

 

[Deerfold]

You think Burley is a small place, but some parts are over 20 minutes walk from the railway station. Expect the X84 and 962 to become busy at school start and end times. The 962 is a 27 seater bus today.

They're not going to catch the hourly 962 to school - the first one arrives in Ilkley at 0943, with the school starting at 0825. They may use it on the way home. X84s arrive in Ilkley 55 and 13 minutes before the school day starts. Google maps says the bus station is a 13 minute walk from the school.

 

[Tayway]

There's a daily Oban to Dalmally working that almost exclusively serves local schoolchildren if I remember correctly.

 

[Dfatcontroller]

There's a daily Oban to Dalmally working that almost exclusively serves local schoolchildren if I remember correctly.

2Y40 1611 Oban - Dalmally. Returns as 2Y39 1705 Dalmally - Oban.
School buses actually meet the train at Dalmally from further afield.

In the morning, and disruption or late running to 1Y31 0520 Glasgow QS - Oban has to be mindful of the disruption to the school kids that board at Dalmally.
Often, during bad weather; 1Y20 0517 Oban - Glasgow QS will be turned at Dalmally to form the school train; with the northbound from Glasgow turned back at Arrochar.

 

[Lewisham2221]

But of course it does the most important thing, makes it someone else's problem.

What exactly is it and how exactly does it become "someone else's problem"?

 

[Dai Corner]

What exactly is it and how exactly does it become "someone else's problem"?

I think Nym means getting (possibly badly behaved) children to/from school.

 

[Typhoon]

What exactly is it and how exactly does it become "someone else's problem"?

I referred to that post in mine, so, as far as I am concerned, from time to time I travel on trains that carry a significant number of schoolchildren going both too and from school. They are dirtier, with more litter distributed where the pupils have sat/ stood, they sometimes put their feet up on the seats, they are loud which means I can hear their language, which is sometimes inappropriate - not just swearing (which I can tolerate) but the content. From girls, I don't want to know what they or their mates got up to last night or plan to get up to; OK, it happens but don't shout. From boys, for some of them their attitude towards members of the opposite sex is appalling; again, it is nothing new to me, I was a teacher than a college lecturer, but just talk, the rest of us don't want to know. There is no need for them to run up and down the carriages. This has already been alluded to by @Andyh82 in #10, but, where a service is normally provided by a train with say two carriages, having to cope with a large number of extra passengers might lead to overcrowding, meaning that regular passengers are left behind.
There is also no guarantee of much extra revenue to compensate. Certainly in the afternoon, I know of a whole string of stations near me with no gates and, frequently, no staff. If I know then school kids know.

Not all pupils are like this by any means but some are. I don't know how widely this is practiced but I can think of up to a dozen schools in Kent where staff see pupils onto the school buses at home-time, in some they even line up, staff will even go upstairs to make sure the pupils are seated. This ensures a calm departure and, although it may get noisier, it is not unbearable. Equally, I have seen staff getting on a bus arriving in the morning, seeing the pupils off, checking the condition of the bus - including upstairs, and talking to the driver. The pupils know that this will happen. The chances of school staff walking to a station are negligible.

 

[InOban]

The advantage to the school pupils on the Dalmally route is that they are issued a season ticket which is valid on any train until the end of the school year. There are very view buses beyond Connel

 

[richw]

A lot of school children could previously be found on the 0730 Liskeard to devonport and 1600 back. Not sure on current times as this was a few years since I’ve mistakenly caught either of these two. They were always 150s back then, and the kids well and truly overcrowded them. GWR used to provide a bus duplicate for normal passengers to avoid the kids on a non stop Plymouth to Liskeard

 

[Chris Hamilton]

Back when I worked for ScotRail (2003ish), there was a specific school train from Dalmuir to Dumbarton Central in the afternoon (between 3:30 and 4). Usually run as a 6 car 318 that came ECS from Yoker. It wasn’t on the advertised timetable, but would be on the platform displays and we never stopped Joe Public from boarding if they wanted. It seemed to deposit most of its passengers at Old Kilpatrick and Bowling, before heading into the bay at Dumbarton Central and sitting there for 30 or so minutes. Then IIRC it then went ECS back to Dalmuir and formed a peak service to Airdrie.

I suspect ScotRail were getting a small fee from SPT/West Dunbartonshire Council to utilise otherwise unused unit/staff and it got one of the evening peak units out of Yoker a bit earlier.

These days, with the opening of the Bathgate line, there aren’t really as many units sitting in the depot during the day, and the frequency west of Dalmuir is more than sufficient to soak up the capacity for schoolkids.

 

[Bertie the bus]

You think Burley is a small place, but some parts are over 20 minutes walk from the railway station. Expect the X84 and 962 to become busy at school start and end times. The 962 is a 27 seater bus today.

How is that a problem? They are kids and there is supposedly a child obesity crisis. Walking for up to 20 minutes isn’t going to do them any harm and will probably do them some good.

 

[Falcon1200]

Those secondary school age children in Neilston who do not attend the Catholic school in Barrhead (St Lukes, transported there by coach) go to Eastwood High, near Patterton station, and travel by train. Not so bad in the morning when they spread out over several services but no fun in the afternoon when they all pile onto one train! At one time there was an additional train to the half-hourly service, advertised publicly but primarily for their use, at 1533 from Glasgow Central, but this ceased long ago.

 

[Lewisham2221]

There is a problem with school buses and that is antisocial behaviour.

That is a very sweeping and inaccurate generalisation. Whilst I have absolutely no doubt that many school services have behaviour issues, it is by no means the case for all of them.

pushing school children onto trains is not a simple or cheaper solution.

It may not be a solution to ASB issues (if they even exist in this situation) but it almost certainly is simpler and cheaper than sourcing multiple school buses to essentially duplicate a train service.

 

[Busaholic]

So by removing the school buses they have completely irradiated the issue of anti social behaviour on and around school buses, job done, right?

That's a bit steep, do hope it was eradication rather than irradiation.

 

[Deerfold]

How is that a problem? They are kids and there is supposedly a child obesity crisis. Walking for up to 20 minutes isn’t going to do them any harm and will probably do them some good.

I think the point was that if it's as quick to get a bus, they'll do that.

 

[318266]

There is an unadvertised school train (usually a 3 car Class 318/320) from Crosshill, the 2O50 1512 to Glasgow Central. Formed from 5O50 ECS from Glasgow Central, then joins onto another 3 car 318/320 to do 2N28 1635 to Neilston.