ScotRail 380s on North Clyde line

[PaxVobiscum]

RailScot has a picture of a pair of 380s at Hyndland today, presumably part of the Commonwealth Games enhancements. Has this happened before or is it a first?

 

[Dan_225]

This is a first and will continue after the commonwealth. The route was recently surveyed to ensure it met the profile of the passing 380's.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Thanks for that info, Dan_225

 

[Strathclyder]

Had to happen sooner or later. Any ideas what services they'll be used on after the Commonwealth Games i.e. Dalmuir - Cumbernauld or Balloch - Airdrie?

 

[NotATrainspott]

I can't see them being used too much. The North Clyde and Argyle lines are both designed for 6x20m EMU operation. The 380s are 3/4x23m, meaning that it is impossible to double them up unless you want to use SDO absolutely everywhere. They're also completely incompatible with the normal 314/318/320 stock used, and unlike them won't be able to push a 334 around if the need arises.

 

[Eng274]

380s have been working Garscadden-Rutherglen shuttles today on the North Clyde.

 

[thealexweb]

If they were to be used there on a permanent basis who would lose out? North Berwick / Dunbar?

 

[Eng274]

I think DMUs have been used on some of the North Berwicks to free up the 380s, don't think it'll be permanent though due to the already aforementioned inability to strengthen with 318/320/334 and their coach length.

 

[thealexweb]

I think DMUs have been used on some of the North Berwicks to free up the 380s, don't think it'll be permanent though due to the already aforementioned inability to strengthen with 318/320/334 and their coach length.

I may be wrong in saying this but for the next few weeks all North Berwick / Dunbar services are being run with 170s.

 

[170401]

This is a first and will continue after the commonwealth.

No it won't. They will continue to be cleared for the route but they won't have any booked work on it. After the games the timetable will return to normal and the stock used on these services will go back to their booked work IE North Berwicks etc

It's unlikely 23 metre stock would ever be used on these routes en masse unless it comes with mass platform lengthening.

 

[Chrism20]

They will be going back to the North Berwick and Dunbar service after the games. There has been a lot of noise over the last week on that line. Scotrail advised that older diesel stock would be used during the games, what they did not say was that capacity would also be cut. Some of the morning peak services have been rammed by Longniddry and Prestonpans leaving people on the platforms at Wallyford and Musselburgh.

 

[Class 170101]

They will need the longer stock over the Edinburgh side of Scotland post the Commonwealth Games for the Edinburgh Festival.

According to Modern Railways this month TPE are hiring 2x Class 350/3s on a sub-lease agreement between 12 July and 26 August to cover the Commonwealth Games and the Edinburgh Festival.

 

[motherwell334]

There has been "rumours" around our depot that ScotRail will be ordering new rolling stock,unknown of the class, but the 380s may become a permanent feature on the North Clyde/Argyle line

 

[asylumxl]

On a recent trip from North Berwick to Edinburgh, the guard informed us that the lack of carriages (a 170 vice a 380) was due to the strengthening of services around Glasgow for the Commonwealth games. He then went on to say that services would return to normal after the games are over. So make of that what you will.

 

[thealexweb]

There has been "rumours" around our depot that ScotRail will be ordering new rolling stock,unknown of the class, but the 380s may become a permanent feature on the North Clyde/Argyle line

I hope for an updates 380 to become the new standard EMU for Scotland.

 

[Class 170101]

I must admit I thought Scotrail might have been an extra loco hauled set out on the Fife Circle, wasn't there something like a 17:08 and a 17:19 departuer from Edinburgh both formed of loco hauled sets at one time?

 

[NotATrainspott]

There has been "rumours" around our depot that ScotRail will be ordering new rolling stock,unknown of the class, but the 380s may become a permanent feature on the North Clyde/Argyle line

A new fleet of EMUs needs to be introduced by the winning ScotRail bidder for use on the newly electrified lines out of Queen Street HL. Another set of Class 380s would fulfil the requirements for this but there are other possibilities, such as Hitachi and their AT200 design that they are pushing for use on this route.

The replacement of the 3x20m EMUs - 314/318/320 - will happen much later, since they seem to have nothing particularly wrong with them. Porterbrook have options for their own fleet of Mk3 EMUs, including retractioning and a full interior redesign, which could be applied to the 318s and 320s to keep them going for quite a while longer. If there's nothing wrong with them then there's not much point investing lots of money replacing them for the sake of it.

 

[edwin_m]

I seem to recall the 380 was a half-way-house between the original Desiro UK and the Desiro City. With the City now being built for Thameslink I doubt Siemens would want to go back to the previous design, unless they are forced to do so by an option on the original 380 contract. They would probably bid a variant on the City or possibly decide not to bid at all as with Crossrail.

A 23m 25kV EMU capable of at least 115mph is quite a significant market, with Great Western suburban, Transpennine and Midland Mainline as well as Scotrail needing somethign to a similar spec. As well as Hitachi and Siemens, no doubt Bombardier covers this spec with some variant on the Aventra and according to the latest Modern Railways Alstom is looking at getting back into the UK main line market with something to a similar spec.

Interesting that while some consider cascaded 315s and 319s to be unacceptable in northern England or South Wales, the Scots seem quite happy with their similar 314s, 318s and 320s...

 

[jopsuk]

for 3-car 380s to be used, you'd have to ensure there was an extra 18m of platform available.

(there's a fourth 3x20m class you've missed- the 334s!)

 

[NotATrainspott]

Interesting that while some consider cascaded 315s and 319s to be unacceptable in northern England or South Wales, the Scots seem quite happy with their similar 314s, 318s and 320s...

I think that's probably because ScotRail or its predecessors have run most train classes since they were new - a couple of units belonging to a class may have moved up eventually but it has never got an entire fleet of hand-me-downs. The 318s and 320s are both being refurbished to be of an entirely reasonable standard that no passenger would complain about. In general ScotRail seems to be the best regional (non Intercity, non London commuter [if you forget the uber-commuters who actually use the Sleepers to live in the Highlands and work in London...]) by virtue of having too few lines suitable for Pacers and enough suburban electrification to keep the majority of commuters perfectly happy. Most of the unhappy Northern people are unhappy that they are forced to commute to work on cramped Pacer/15x stock where the same places around Glasgow are served by the suburban electrification.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Saw this 380 near Newton this evening - according to Realtime Trains it was 2F11 1823 Motherwell to Milngavie.
Is this usual now?

 

[motherwell334]

Saw this 380 near Newton this evening - according to Realtime Trains it was 2F11 1823 Motherwell to Milngavie.
Is this usual now?

Not the Motherwell to milngave route, but these do cover the edinburgh to Ayr route hence the destination on the front of the unit


http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G50288/2014/08/25/advanced

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Silly me - you are right of course, and I misread the RT page.

I don't know how on earth you managed to read the destination screen! Now that I know it's "Ayr" I can just make it out on the original at one particular scaled size but not on the jpeg I posted.