ScotRail alcohol ban: what should be the policy?

[Bletchleyite]

Having rules just in case someone chooses to enforce them is completely not the way to go, especially as it discriminates against those of us who are disinclined to break them.

If a rule is to be put in place, it should only be done so on the assumption that it will be enforced equally to everybody.

Agree with this.

Personally I can see sense in a ban on local services around Glasgow and Edinburgh as per Merseyrail. If nothing else it stops the trains reeking of beer as German S Bahn ones often do as it gets spilt and litter dropped from it. If one can't last half an hour without an alcoholic drink, one really does have a problem.

By contrast I would reallow it on Inter7City and Far North/West Highland services, as alcohol is often a pleasant accompaniment to a long distance journey.

 

[Trainbike46]

Personally, I think it would make sense to generally allow alcohol, but to designate specific trains where problems are expected as "dry trains", and schedule BTP presence on those trains to enforce the rules and deal with any issues that arise.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have big problems with alcohol addiction. Before each evening I drink a certain dose to feel good. But it seems to me that soon this problem will become much wider. What to do in such a situation?

In your situation? Seek help; addiction is not good.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I can see that perhaps making suburban commuter services such as the Glasgow electrics network, Fife circle, shotts line and maybe even the borders permanently dry would make some sense, however, services that travel longer distances and or offer a more premium service such as first class and or catering should be allowed to both sell and serve alcohol and permit consumption of your own alcohol on board again, perhaps with a few restrictions in place when a few thousand fans are travelling to a football or rugby match, just as a couple of examples

I would certainly enjoy a quiet dram or mini bottle of wine if my day involved travelling all the way from WIC to Glasgow, wish for those unaware. Literally does take pretty much most of a day, you might conceivably be in Glasgow in time for dinner and some down time with friends or family. If you left early enough, but a large chunk of your day will be spent on a train should be unrestricted apart from as I say on event or similar days

 

[northscots]

I can see that perhaps making suburban commuter services such as the Glasgow electrics network, Fife circle, shotts line and maybe even the borders permanently dry would make some sense, however, services that travel longer distances and or offer a more premium service such as first class and or catering should be allowed to both sell and serve alcohol and permit consumption of your own alcohol on board again, perhaps with a few restrictions in place when a few thousand fans are travelling to a football or rugby match, just as a couple of examples

I would certainly enjoy a quiet dram or mini bottle of wine if my day involved travelling all the way from WIC to Glasgow, wish for those unaware. Literally does take pretty much most of a day, you might conceivably be in Glasgow in time for dinner and some down time with friends or family. If you left early enough, but a large chunk of your day will be spent on a train should be unrestricted apart from as I say on event or similar days

What counts as intercity and what counts as local/suburban? The difference isn't as clear cut. Stations can be served by both, often to the same destination. Should you be allowed to have a drink when travelling from Inverkeithing to Edinburgh on a service that started at Aberdeen vs a service that started at Leven? What about between Arbroath and Dundee? Most passengers don't know or care what an intercity vs a local service is and they are not normally branded any differently. It would be impossible for the conductor/ticket inspector to enforce that.

 

[Blindtraveler]

You could simply do this by designating which services are dry or otherwise in timetables on journey planners and on station announcements and screens.
Oh of course you could simplify it totally and go back to how it was, but I don't think continuing with this policy is at all wise or sensible

 

[menotskinny]

There used to be a "dry train" thread on one of these forums. I tend to avoid travel long distances on Saturday evenings, as some companies enforce dry trains.
I'm aware that York station is a "dry" zone from 6pm Saturday, majority if not all of LNER services from KX or Scotland on Saturday evenings are dry.
TPE services are usually OK for alcohol consumption, as long as they don't go to boro/Saltburn from 6pm. That's been in place for many years.
I'm unsure if TPE trains southbound from Edinburgh on Saturday evenings, 6pm onwards? Any help appreciated.
Also unsure if Lumo are dry trains in either direction on Saturdays.
Cheers

 

[Carntyne]

Back to the old 'none after nine' policy is fine. It's ridiculous. Scottish Government singing the praises of champagne breakfasts on their new CalMac boat yesterday, but you can't have a beer on their trains at any time, when leisure travel is now key to getting passenger numbers up.

Even then, it's only people who follow the rules who are penalised.

 

[menotskinny]

As this is a Scotrail thread, are the Kyle line trains dry on Saturday mornings? I'm going to a Ross County game soon and finally taking in the Kyle line, alighting at Dingwall on the way back. Obviously, I won't be getting blotto, but hopefully a few drinks should be fine whilst taking in the great scenery.

 

[ainsworth74]

As this is a Scotrail thread, are the Kyle line trains dry on Saturday mornings? I'm going to a Ross County game soon and finally taking in the Kyle line, alighting at Dingwall on the way back. Obviously, I won't be getting blotto, but hopefully a few drinks should be fine whilst taking in the great scenery.

The policy is that alcohol is not permitted on any Scotrail service or station at any time. It can be carried, unopened, in a bag out of sight. But consumption on board is a prohibited.

How well enforced that policy is however...

 

[menotskinny]

So to be clear, is it "Scotrail" services or any trains that operate in Scotland? So If I'm drinking a bottle of Kopperaberg or Magners etc on board an LNER/TPE/Lumo service , will it have to be discarded as soon as train arrives in Berwick?
Likewise , if I'm on LNER from Inverness to "south of the border" on a Monday , is it a dry train until Berwick?
I'm just trying to get things right before travelling to Scotland.
cheers.

 

[ainsworth74]

So to be clear, is it "Scotrail" services or any trains that operate in Scotland? So If I'm drinking a bottle of Kopperaberg or Magners etc on board an LNER/TPE/Lumo service , will it have to be discarded as soon as train arrives in Berwick?
Likewise , if I'm on LNER from Inverness to "south of the border" on a Monday , is it a dry train until Berwick?
I'm just trying to get things right before travelling to Scotland.
cheers.

Scotrail as in the operator. TPE/LNER/etc are not covered at all. So you can happily crack open a Kopperberg on Lumo whilst passing through Musselburgh or LNER at Aviemore to your hearts content (unless a specific service has been declared a "dry train").

 

[menotskinny]

Cheers for the confirmation. I'm on LNER to Edinburgh on the Friday afternoon, then Scotrail (HST) up to Inverness. LNER throughout on way back on the Monday

 

[aaronspence]

I always thought the ban was stupid, is a lone conductor going to to approach a single person on their own having a quiet drink or a group of young adults being a bit loud and annoying, yet only one of those types of people is causing a problem

 

[menotskinny]

I always thought the ban was stupid, is a lone conductor going to to approach a single person on their own having a quiet drink or a group of young adults being a bit loud and annoying, yet only one of those types of people is causing a problem

Exactly , I used to be a little bit loud on footy day outs on the train, singing & laughing etc, I'm knackered just to breathe and walk these days thanks to COPD and other ailments, on occasions when I manage to get out & about now, I tend to travel alone, so I can take my time and not worry about what anyone wants to do or wants to go. Basically, I just enjoy a leisurely few drinks on train now

 

[Howardh]

If you do have a drink and get "caught" what is the actual punishment? Can you end up with a criminal record, or is it simply a fine like a parking ticket?

 

[menotskinny]

If you do have a drink and get "caught" what is the actual punishment? Can you end up with a criminal record, or is it simply a fine like a parking ticket?

aye, like a driving license , you might end up drinking points put on ya railcard

 

[Carntyne]

If you do have a drink and get "caught" what is the actual punishment? Can you end up with a criminal record, or is it simply a fine like a parking ticket?

There's no punishment. We (on train staff) don't want to get involved, and the BTP aren't interested.

 

[Blindtraveler]

There's no punishment. We (on train staff) don't want to get involved, and the BTP aren't interested.

Whole thing is a total joke then. I fully don't blame on board staff for not wanting to be any part of this

 

[Howardh]

There's no punishment. We (on train staff) don't want to get involved, and the BTP aren't interested.

I've got a trip Preston > Edinburgh > Aberdeen or Inverness lined up for late spring. Will probably book first class and I would certainly appreciate a small glass of red on the latter section! Seems a barmy rule to clamp down on a whole country when only parts are an issue, and even then only at certain times?

 

[Indigo Soup]

Seems a barmy rule to clamp down on a whole country when only parts are an issue, and even then only at certain times?

The Scottish Government in general likes trying to govern the whole of Scotland like it's the Central Belt. Ask someone from the Highlands what happened when Strathclyde Police Police Scotland took over from the Highland Constabulary!

What counts as intercity and what counts as local/suburban? The difference isn't as clear cut. Stations can be served by both, often to the same destination. Should you be allowed to have a drink when travelling from Inverkeithing to Edinburgh on a service that started at Aberdeen vs a service that started at Leven? What about between Arbroath and Dundee? Most passengers don't know or care what an intercity vs a local service is and they are not normally branded any differently. It would be impossible for the conductor/ticket inspector to enforce that.

A not unreasonable line would be 'if it has catering advertised, you can have a drink', which would broadly align with passenger expectations of a trolley service on long-distance services. For consistency you'd have to remove the catering on the Edinburgh-Glasgow express service, but that's a bit weird anyway.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Scottish Government in general likes trying to govern the whole of Scotland like it's the Central Belt. Ask someone from the Highlands what happened when Strathclyde Police Police Scotland took over from the Highland Constabulary!

That is a not unreasonable way of looking at it. I don't think many (other than alcoholics) would have a major problem with the alcohol ban on Merseyrail, London Underground/Overground etc. These are short journeys on which many countries would ban ANY consumption of food or drink (to reduce littering), not just alcohol. I don't support that, but it is nice not to board a train and find it stinks of spilled beer.

On the other hand, I see no reason why alcohol shouldn't be consumed and indeed served on a long distance service to Inverness or Wick. I tend not to myself (coffee tends to be my favoured railway drink) but have no issue with it.

A not unreasonable line would be 'if it has catering advertised, you can have a drink', which would broadly align with passenger expectations of a trolley service on long-distance services. For consistency you'd have to remove the catering on the Edinburgh-Glasgow express service, but that's a bit weird anyway.

Of course if we did train categorisation properly in the UK this would be easy. Alcohol permitted on IC and IR, not permitted on S, R and RE. Dead simple.

(To be fair it wouldn't be that hard to say it's not permitted on any train within the Central Belt, as long as there are maps on board)

 

[Indigo Soup]

Of course if we did train categorisation properly in the UK this would be easy. Alcohol permitted on IC and IR, not permitted on S, R and RE. Dead simple.

Ah, but then you'd have to classify the West Highland, Far North and Kyle lines as IC or IR. Given that you don't have to look hard to find people arguing that Edinburgh-Aberdeen is just a regional express service, I'm not convinced that would solve the problem - although I'm in favour of it generally.

TBH anyone who actually uses the Scottish rail network knows exactly which trains it's reasonable to have a drink on. The only ones I'd say are marginal are the Glasgow-Dundee stoppers, and maybe the Edinbuirgh-Perths.

 

[kkong]

So to be clear, is it "Scotrail" services or any trains that operate in Scotland? So If I'm drinking a bottle of Kopperaberg or Magners etc on board an LNER/TPE/Lumo service , will it have to be discarded as soon as train arrives in Berwick?
Likewise , if I'm on LNER from Inverness to "south of the border" on a Monday , is it a dry train until Berwick.

It's worth noting that the LNER 09.52 Aberdeen to King's Cross is dry (until Newcastle) on Fridays only.

 

[greyman42]

majority if not all of LNER services from KX or Scotland on Saturday evenings are dry.

What makes you think that?

 

[Mgameing123]

I have big problems with alcohol addiction. Before each evening I drink a certain dose to feel good. But it seems to me that soon this problem will become much wider. What to do in such a situation?

Simple solution: Don't drink.

 

[menotskinny]

What makes you think that?

I often used to travel on ECML Saturday evenings, GNER etc trains were usually dry, especially if Sunderland, newcastle or boro were playing in the capitol. Then I started doing games in Scotland, southbound trains from Edinburgh from 19.00 were usually dry. XC services were usually ok to drink on.
Due to ill health I haven't done much long distance travelling, so I don't know what the craic is on ECML these days on "footy" Saturdays.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Simple solution: Don't drink.

If one is an alcoholic, simply stopping drinking is usually not an option. The poster to whom you are replying should seek medical help from their GP or from another suitable organisation.

 

[43066]

Personally I’m dead against blanket bans of this type, and Scotrail should revoke theirs, in my opinion. It’s a little too “nanny state” for my taste.

Dry trains are certainly justified in some circumstances, and I’m in favour of heavily intoxicated people being denied travel, but part of the reason people choose to travel by train is so that they can indulge in a “wee dram” or two. Why on earth should Scotrail deny that possibility to those who drink in moderation, but wish to enjoy a tipple on the train?

 

[Mgameing123]

If one is an alcoholic, simply stopping drinking is usually not an option. The poster to whom you are replying should seek medical help from their GP or from another suitable organisation.

It really is that simple. All it takes is courage and discipline.