Scotrail franchise future?

[fhs man 2]

Well from the looks of it First are most likely going to hold on to the Scotrail franchise, but do you think there might be a possibility that they could lose the franchise in 2014 ?

 

[David10]

Well from the looks of it First are most likely going to hold on to the Scotrail franchise, but do you think there might be a possibility that they could lose the franchise in 2014?

Why would they be going to lose it? Their winning of ICWC will have no bearing on their eligibility to bid for the Scotrail or Caledonian Sleeper franchises in 2014.

 

[fhs man 2]

Why would they be going to lose it? Their winning of ICWC will have no bearing on their eligibility to bid for the Scotrail or Caledonian Sleeper franchises in 2014.

I don't think they are going to lose it, I think that they are most likely going to win it again but what I was asking is that do you think there could be a chance that they lose it.

 

[68000]

Why do you think they are going to win it?

 

[fhs man 2]

Why do you think they are going to win it?

Just the way Network Rail and Department of Transport have been praising them so much it seems that they have it in the bag, but do they.

 

[BrianTheLion]

I personally think that something should be done to increase competition between Glasgow and Carlisle now that First were awarded the west coast franchise... Unless Ive got this wrong, theyll have a monopoly between these two points as they would then own Scotrail, TPE & the west coast runs....

 

[michael769]

Just the way Network Rail and Department of Transport have been praising them so much it seems that they have it in the bag, but do they.

The decision on the Scotrail franchise is down to Transport Scotland and The Scottish Ministers. Network Rail and the DfT have nothing to do with it (other than ensuring the process complies with the law).

Given that the new franchise tender has not been prepared I cannot see how First can be said to have anything in their bag.

When it does go out to tender the decision will depend entirely on who decides to bid for the franchise and what they offer.

 

[tbtc]

I personally think that something should be done to increase competition between Glasgow and Carlisle now that First were awarded the west coast franchise... Unless Ive got this wrong, theyll have a monopoly between these two points as they would then own Scotrail, TPE & the west coast runs....

Since there are already monopolies between much bigger combinations of places, I don't think anyone will lose sleep over this

 

[fhs man 2]

The decision on the Scotrail franchise is down to Transport Scotland and The Scottish Ministers. Network Rail and the DfT have nothing to do with it (other than ensuring the process complies with the law).

Given that the new franchise tender has not been prepared I cannot see how First can be said to have anything in their bag.

When it does go out to tender the decision will depend entirely on who decides to bid for the franchise and what they offer.

Who do you think will bid ?

 

[tbtc]

Who do you think will bid ?

We don't know what the minimum franchise spec will be, who will bid or what they will offer "on top" - far too early to be having this discussion.

Most importantly, I don't think 99% of passengers will notice the difference, given how strict the franchise spec is and the fact that the livery won't really change regardless.

 

[michael769]

Who do you think will bid ?

Until Transport Scotland release a minimum spec it is impossible for anyone to know if they can make a viable business case for making a bid.

As tbtc says the franchise is going to be so tightly locked down by Holyrood that the only visible difference for passengers will be the color of the staff uniforms.

 

[route:oxford]

I think Scotrail will return to State Control with DB Regio operating the franchise on behalf of Transport Scotland.

Virgin have indicated they are willing to operate a franchse as a non-profit venture. Perhaps they'd be suitable for the sleepers?

Although I'd pity anyone who bought a discounted e-ticket and found themselves trying to board a service in the early hours to find their ticket was cancelled for "operational reasons" because it could be sold to someone else at a higher price...

 

[kylemore]

I think Scotrail will return to State Control with DB Regio operating the franchise on behalf of Transport Scotland.
QUOTE]

If only!

 

[fgwrich]

I think Scotrail will return to State Control with DB Regio operating the franchise on behalf of Transport Scotland.
!

If only!

However, i do wonder if the next franchise will be tendered out as a concession, rather than standard franchise?

 

[BrianTheLion]

Since there are already monopolies between much bigger combinations of places, I don't think anyone will lose sleep over this

But are these places ran by the same company under different guises? added to that operation of local bus services also (First Glasgow/First Edinburgh, etc) - its a lot of public transport to give to just one company dont you think?

 

[MCR247]

Glasgow - Carlisle? Realistically you can't say there is much competion between the WCML and via Dumfries. It isn't a big monopoly at all.

I doubt the DfT are worried about that at all

 

[TheJRB]

The monopoly discussion always comes up but I've yet to see any action from the DfT or any other governmental body to counteract lack of competition anywhere.

 

[E16 Cyclist]

Given that First are essentially a scottish company and the SNP are in charge of the scottish government you could be cynical and say its a done deal

 

[HH]

Given that First are essentially a scottish company and the SNP are in charge of the scottish government you could be cynical and say its a done deal

Stagecoach are also a Scottish Company...

 

[ainsworth74]

But are these places ran by the same company under different guises? added to that operation of local bus services also (First Glasgow/First Edinburgh, etc) - its a lot of public transport to give to just one company dont you think?

I walk to my local station my choice of TOC Northern or Northern. Once upon a time I walk to my local station and because Arriva Train Northern services aren't running I decide to take bus operated by... Arriva.

There are plenty of examples like this from around the country. I'd be interested to see if you can provide any official word that suggests that there are issues with such monopolies on the privatised railway and if action has ever been taken to break them up?

 

[HH]

I walk to my local station my choice of TOC Northern or Northern. Once upon a time I walk to my local station and because Arriva Train Northern services aren't running I decide to take bus operated by... Arriva.

There are plenty of examples like this from around the country. I'd be interested to see if you can provide any official word that suggests that there are issues with such monopolies on the privatised railway and if action has ever been taken to break them up?

First had to make some changes to their Scottish bus operations when they won ScotRail...

 

[ainsworth74]

First had to make some changes to their Scottish bus operations when they won ScotRail...

Interesting, but specifically to do with the railways?

 

[HH]

Interesting, but specifically to do with the railways?

Oh yes, it was to introduce competition on some routes.

 

[BrianTheLion]

I walk to my local station my choice of TOC Northern or Northern. Once upon a time I walk to my local station and because Arriva Train Northern services aren't running I decide to take bus operated by... Arriva.

There are plenty of examples like this from around the country. I'd be interested to see if you can provide any official word that suggests that there are issues with such monopolies on the privatised railway and if action has ever been taken to break them up?

Being brought up in Gateshead Im familiar with your neck of the woods... Im talking monopoly more from a Scotland to England perspective I guess...

Glasgow to Carlisle is now monopolised virtually... on the other side you still have the choice of East Coast or Cross Country and for some of the way Northern.. so thats still two more TOC's on that line compared to the 3 different First companies on the WCML.... add into the equation that First operate buses in most of the major cities in Scotland and you can quickly see why some might say its a done deal with the Scottish government...

I think its a dangerous game putting all the eggs in one basket.... what happens if First go under??? Most of Scotland would be without a lot of public transport!!

 

[tbtc]

But are these places ran by the same company under different guises? added to that operation of local bus services also (First Glasgow/First Edinburgh, etc) - its a lot of public transport to give to just one company dont you think?

A few years ago the Glasgow to Carlisle service was:

• Glasgow - Carlisle - Manchester (operated by Virgin Cross Country, for a long time extending to Birmingham etc too)
• Glasgow - Carlisle - Birmingham (operated by Virgin Cross Country, for a long time extending to Plymouth etc too)
• Glasgow - Carlisle - London (operated by Virgin West Coast)

Now, for a few months at least its going to be

• Glasgow - Carlisle - Manchester (operated by First TPE)
• Glasgow - Carlisle - Birmingham (operated by First West Coast)
• Glasgow - Carlisle - London (operated by First West Coast)

If it wasn't a problem for Virgin to run these routes then I can't see it being a problem for First to run these routes

(I'm ignoring the slow 156s via the GSW because they aren't intended for Glasgow to Carlisle trips)

 

[marks87]

The monopoly discussion always comes up but I've yet to see any action from the DfT or any other governmental body to counteract lack of competition anywhere.

When First took over ScotRail, they had to "agree to undertakings" to "protect the travelling public" because of their bus services in Glasgow and Edinburgh.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3845973.stm

While it's not what most people have in mind when they talk about monopolies (one TOC being the only option for certain journeys), it does show that the Competition Commission is prepared to look into situations where a single company would dominate and potentially abuse their power.

 

[tbtc]

When First took over ScotRail, they had to "agree to undertakings" to "protect the travelling public" because of their bus services in Glasgow and Edinburgh.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3845973.stm

While it's not what most people have in mind when they talk about monopolies (one TOC being the only option for certain journeys), it does show that the Competition Commission is prepared to look into situations where a single company would dominate and potentially abuse their power.

National Express had to divest Citylink many years ago for similar reasons.

However no company has been barred from owning adjacent train franchises as far as I am aware - there are plenty of examples of one company owning adjacent ones - and plenty of examples of TOCs also running a large number of buses in an area - e.g. Arriva must be the largest private bus operator in most of Wales yet run the Wales & Borders franchise... Stagecoach run many bus operations between South Yorkshire and Bedfordshire (as well as the Supertram) yet are okay to run EMT, First have buses in the Thames Valley/ West Country/ Swansea etc yet run FGW, National Express run most buses (and all trams) in the West Midlands yet ran Central Trains...

 

[ainsworth74]

I think its a dangerous game putting all the eggs in one basket.... what happens if First go under??? Most of Scotland would be without a lot of public transport!!

No idea what would happen to the bus services but the rail services would be taken over by DOR until they could be re-franchised.

 

[route:oxford]

No idea what would happen to the bus services but the rail services would be taken over by DOR until they could be re-franchised.

Even in Scotland?

You would think that they would be operated by Scottish Office Directly Operated Railways surely?

 

[68000]

It would be Transport ScotRail