ScotRail Industrial Relations issues (including conductor strike action)

[68000]

Absolutely nothing stopping anyone “getting back to it”

apart from the bullying and stigma this entails

 

[PaulMc7]

Guards must have lost maybe 10-15% (at least) of their total pay this year due to industrial action. The prospect of losing another 3-4% when the RMT is on a losing streak and missing out on a 4.7% pay rise.

Guards will understandably be anxious, but the RMT is stuck between a rock and a hard place here. Barring a miracle, at this point there's no way any deal they can obtain will leave their members better off than if it hadn't happened.

I mean who's bloody stupid idea was it to start a Sundays only strike during lockdown, in the middle of a pandemic? Where a lack of Sunday services was barely even an inconvenience???

I'm glad someone else said this, I'd be livid if I was an RMT member right now. I know where I stay First were loving it because when the trains got reduced a lot of people switched over. It did make the buses run a bit late but it's only the train's losses and everything else's gain I guess. If they upped the ante after a month I highly doubt we would have seen no negotiations for 6 months. The union didn't push anywhere near enough to get a good deal for members.

 

[yorkie]

I'm convinced the rail industry is very far behind on a lot of things which is ironic given that the social media staff for Scotrail are very good when it comes to sharing things related to mental health. If only the rest of the industry was in 2021 with us.

I think the Unions (especially the RMT) and the attitudes of some of its members are behind this.

 

[Bald Rick]

I think the RMT has worked itself into a bit of a hole.

Indeed, as I suggested would happen around 2 weeks (and 700 posts) ago. It will be very difficult now for the Union to come out of this without losing face, and probably losing members too. It will be interesting to see how they spin it.

 

[PaulMc7]

I think the Unions (especially the RMT) and the attitudes of some of its members are behind this.

I'm definitely in agreement with you.

 

[Sirius]

It really depends on what proportion of station staff are RMT as that could pull the rug on most stations, bar Glasgow Central and Edinburgh Waverley.

I don't work on the railway - so will bow to anyone's greater knowledge than I have - but if they are intending to run Garscadden to Edinburgh via GLQ LL, Airdrie and Bathgate then from the top of my head from the east Uphall, Livi North, Armadale, Blackridge, Caldercruix, Drumgelloch, Coatdyke, Carntyne, and Bellgrove are all unstaffed east of Queen Street. Only High Street, Bathgate and Edinburgh Park (as a lay person) have staff functions that can prevent opening to allow access to the platforms from the street.

I'm a trade union member for my field - so if there's greater complexity I've not envisaged then I wish to stress I mean no offence to anyone working in any roles I don't envisage through my own lack of knowledge. I'm just thinking (as an observer) of what Scotrail could get away with operationally.

 

[Horizon22]

apart from the bullying and stigma this entails

Almost sounds like you're condoning that kind of behaviour because of someone's personal choice that is different from the majority (which isn't huge considering the number of non-voters of the action). At the very least its an acceptance which should be challenged and stamped out immediately.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Fire and re hire, yes a wonderful Tory idea that!
Has this forum reached an all time low?

I think you will find that this a public forum, and people from all political persuasions are allowed to comment.

Quite. It will be a sad day when someone can’t post an opinion because it aligns with political party xyz ideas.

 

[Berliner]

Quite. It will be a sad day when someone can’t post an opinion because it aligns with political party xyz ideas.

No one actually said they can't post that opinion, but on a railway orientated forum, which I'm assuming has a fair share of staff, former, current or prospective, or people who are family and friends of staff, many of whom are likely to be union members, a Comment such as that, where someone is suggesting they are sacked for standing up for themselves in the workplace, is obviously going to attract some negative attention.

Like people say, it's a public forum....

 

[Goldfish62]

Indeed, as I suggested would happen around 2 weeks (and 700 posts) ago. It will be very difficult now for the Union to come out of this without losing face, and probably losing members too. It will be interesting to see how they spin it.

They completely screwed up the Southern guards dispute, but it didn't appear to have much adverse impact. I'm sure if they end up messing up this one it'll be similar non-consequences.

It's a great advantage for the RMT that there is no alternative union recognised for the relevant grades.

 

[LoogaBarooga]

If anyone is scummy enough to bully someone for making their own decision now after how long this has gone on I'd imagine that would potentially lead to sackings if management catch on. I wonder how attractive a job at Scotrail is to the general public is at the current time. I know in the past I've applied for different roles in both Scotrail and Network Rail, never lead to anything but I'd imagine if a role was infront of me within Scotrail these days I'd be far more hesitant to touch it.

No you wouldn't.

 

[68000]

Almost sounds like you're condoning that kind of behaviour because of someone's personal choice that is different from the majority (which isn't huge considering the number of non-voters of the action)

No, it a disgraceful abuse of power from the majority

 

[Falcon1200]

Scotrail are now saying if non union staff break the strike and work through COP26 they will receive the £300 payment AND the pay rise.

Paying 2 people different salary’s for doing exactly the same job doesn’t seem right. Not sure of the legality either.

All staff have been offered the same deal, one Trade Union has decided not to accept the deal; That is their choice.

One does have to admire the RMT's brass neck however; As quoted in the BBC News website regarding Scotrail's deadline for reaching agreement today: 'The RMT has described the move as like "having a gun pointed at our head".' What exactly does the RMT think striking for 12 days throughout the biggest international event ever held in Scotland constitutes ?

 

[Donhamer]

All staff have been offered the same deal, one Trade Union has decided not to accept the deal; That is their choice.

One does have to admire the RMT's brass neck however; As quoted in the BBC News website regarding Scotrail's deadline for reaching agreement today: 'The RMT has described the move as like "having a gun pointed at our head".' What exactly does the RMT think striking for 12 days throughout the biggest international event ever held in Scotland constitutes ?

All staff have NOT been offered the same deal, the conditions attached vary from union to union to as such.

The majority of productivity and efficiency savings are aimed at RMT members and Conductors in particular.

 

[Taunton]

The simple fear of being bullied as a so-called "scab" will likely be sufficient for most not to consider it, however, even if they wanted to.

Which is another reason to dismiss all who have been so antagonistic here, and start again with a fresh workforce.

It's notable that the organisations who have been very vocal (quite reasonably) about eradicating bullying etc in the workplace, suddenly take the opposite view when they think it is in their interests, and "bullying the scabs" becomes wholly acceptable to them.

 

[6Z09]

Guards must have lost maybe 10-15% (at least) of their total pay this year due to industrial action. The prospect of losing another 3-4% when the RMT is on a losing streak and missing out on a 4.7% pay rise probably isn't a nice thought.

Guards will understandably be anxious, but the RMT is stuck between a rock and a hard place here. Barring a miracle, at this point there's no way any deal they can obtain will leave their members better off than if it hadn't happened.

I mean who's bloody stupid idea was it to start a Sundays only strike during lockdown, in the middle of a pandemic? Where a lack of Sunday services was barely even an inconvenience???

I think the RMT has worked itself into a bit of a hole.

It never was a Sunday only strike!
More of an overtime ban,affected midweek as well.
Is the source of all troubles not the fact that Sundays are not part of the working week?

 

[mpthomson]

Scotrail are now saying if non union staff break the strike and work through COP26 they will receive the £300 payment AND the pay rise.

Paying 2 people different salary’s for doing exactly the same job doesn’t seem right. Not sure of the legality either.

It's completely legal. Different salaries for staff doing the same job is common in many industries, including state employees, for a variety of reasons (length of service, contract where companies have been taken over etc). It's only illegal if the reason is related to a protected characteristic eg due to sex .

 

[snookertam]

It’s basically a game of who blinks first today. The Scottish Government cannot risk this strike going ahead - 4 trains an hour through Central and Queen Street low levels will never cut it. It would be excruciatingly bad and the union are relying on the fear of that motivating a new offer to be made - but you may find of there is some movement on the productivity aspect of the deal then they may well accept.

Relying on some RMT members to come into work on the strike days won’t work either, as there’s no way a service can be planned when it’s not known how many staff will be available. The confidential email address sounds like a red herring and would only work if there was likely to be large scale strike breaking.

I think if we don’t get a deal today we will later this week. Pretty certain of it now.

 

[Starmill]

The Scottish Government cannot risk this strike going ahead - 4 trains an hour through Central and Queen Street low levels will never cut it.

Really? Why not? They can probably offer necessary capacity at 4tph of six car sets. There are reasonable alternatives from unserved places.

 

[John Bishop]

It’s basically a game of who blinks first today. The Scottish Government cannot risk this strike going ahead - 4 trains an hour through Central and Queen Street low levels will never cut it. It would be excruciatingly bad and the union are relying on the fear of that motivating a new offer to be made - but you may find of there is some movement on the productivity aspect of the deal then they may well accept.

Relying on some RMT members to come into work on the strike days won’t work either, as there’s no way a service can be planned when it’s not known how many staff will be available. The confidential email address sounds like a red herring and would only work if there was likely to be large scale strike breaking.

I think if we don’t get a deal today we will later this week. Pretty certain of it now.

I certainly don’t share your optimism.

 

[snookertam]

Really? Why not? They can probably offer necessary capacity at 4tph of six car sets. There are reasonable alternatives from unserved places.

You think the City of Glasgow and surrounding areas would cope well with no rail network whilst this was going on?
People have booked to stay all round the city and as far afield as Edinburgh and Ayr. Add to that the threat of climate protesters blocking key road junctions (if they knew where they were….) it would be chaos.

The reasonable alternatives would turn into a disaster when they are oversubscribed.

 

[Bald Rick]

The Scottish Government cannot risk this strike going ahead

They certainly can, and appear to be prepared to.

 

[snookertam]

I certainly don’t share your optimism.

I wasn’t optimistic up until today, but I think both sides will realise that a strike won’t be good and this may focus minds. Even if today’s deadline isn’t met, I think a deal will be struck this week.

They certainly can, and appear to be prepared to.

No they’re not. It’s just brinksmanship.

 

[Bald Rick]

No they’re not. It’s just brinksmanship.

that’s your opinion. A brave opinion, in my view.

 

[Robertj21a]

It’s basically a game of who blinks first today. The Scottish Government cannot risk this strike going ahead - 4 trains an hour through Central and Queen Street low levels will never cut it. It would be excruciatingly bad and the union are relying on the fear of that motivating a new offer to be made - but you may find of there is some movement on the productivity aspect of the deal then they may well accept.

Relying on some RMT members to come into work on the strike days won’t work either, as there’s no way a service can be planned when it’s not known how many staff will be available. The confidential email address sounds like a red herring and would only work if there was likely to be large scale strike breaking.

I think if we don’t get a deal today we will later this week. Pretty certain of it now.

Of course the government can ride it out. Trains are only a small % of those travelling. Just a few days and it's all over.

 

[PaulMc7]

Really? Why not? They can probably offer necessary capacity at 4tph of six car sets. There are reasonable alternatives from unserved places.

It's only the Springburn trains less than normal to be fair plus everywhere on the line between Milngavie-Springburn with the exception of Westerton as you'd need to walk a bit has a City Centre bus that goes near it or by it. I'd be amazed if it made even a slight difference.

 

[Bill57p9]

With a final salary pension scheme that for example is based on the average salary in the last 12 months it obviously has a massively adverse impact for anyone retiring shortly.

It is a bit more nuanced than that. Any final (or indeed average) salary calculation shouldn't deduct strike days. Accrual will be affected, with strike days not accruing length of service. However any loss of pensionable overtime payments (e.g. for rest day or Sunday working) WILL affect the "salary" part of the calculation.

The same is true for part time workers: their "salary" is full time but accrual prorata.

 

[Starmill]

You think the City of Glasgow and surrounding areas would cope well with no rail network whilst this was going on?
People have booked to stay all round the city and as far afield as Edinburgh and Ayr. Add to that the threat of climate protesters blocking key road junctions (if they knew where they were….) it would be chaos.

The reasonable alternatives would turn into a disaster when they are oversubscribed.

They may not cope well but they will certainly be able to cope. There a rail service to the conference venue and to Edinburgh. There's a comprehensive local bus service. There's an intensive interregional bus service which will be running with extra capacity.

 

[snookertam]

that’s your opinion. A brave opinion, in my view.

I have had your view in the past, that it was a certainty, but I feel that both sides will realise that it has to get sorted and come back to the table.

I don’t share others’ views that the city or the central belt will cope with this well.

 

[Falcon1200]

You think the City of Glasgow and surrounding areas would cope well with no rail network whilst this was going on?
People have booked to stay all round the city and as far afield as Edinburgh and Ayr. Add to that the threat of climate protesters blocking key road junctions (if they knew where they were….) it would be chaos.

Some people are staying near my daughter's workplace in Largs, but will travel to Glasgow by bus, so the strike will not affect them. And personally, even before the strike, I already had no intention of going anywhere near Glasgow for the 12 days.

All staff have NOT been offered the same deal, the conditions attached vary from union to union to as such.

The pay increase and COP26 bonus were the same, weren't they ? If the RMT seriously believe they are going to get a 4.9% pay increase with no attached changes to working conditions they are living in a alternate reality.