ScotRail Tap and Pay App

[Grinner]

Following on from the discussion in the thread below, I have received an e-mail inviting me to participate in a trial of the ScotRail Tap and Pay app.

ScotRail- Rail as you go app

According to “The Scotsman” newspaper, Scotrail is working on an app which will allow payment upon completion of your journey by recognising your destination. The article is behind a paywall so could not explore further nor seeing how close it is to April Fools Day ascertain as to whether this...

www.railforums.co.uk

Details of the new system are provided on a link: https://www.scotrail.co.uk/tap-pay?...nvite&utm_medium=email#tap-pay-trial-involves

The key points ScotRail list on the above are below. For me an issue I see is what is a "journey". There's no sign it's anything like a hop-on hop-off system with a cap (i.e like Oyster), so I'm not quite sure what this will acheive, other than ensuring that Peak/Off Peak/Super Off Peak are correctly applied.

What is Tap & Pay?​

Tap & Pay is a new, convenient way to travel on ScotRail services. By using a dedicated mobile app, you can generate a barcode whenever you travel, which lets you access trains and stations without the need for a traditional ticket.

Why use Tap & Pay?​

• Save time: Generate a barcode and scan it as you travel.
• Travel flexibly: No need to buy a ticket in advance.
• Best value: Always get the best fare automatically.
• Railcard discounts: Your Railcard discount is applied automatically.
• Secure payments: Enjoy secure and automated charging.
• Track your trips: Access your full journey and payment history in your account.

How does it work?​

With Tap & Pay, you register a few details within an easy-to-use app. Then, whenever you start a journey, nominate your origin station and you will be given a barcode that can be scanned by our on-board staff and used to pass through ticket gates. After you travel, simply end the journey at your destination station. The app will calculate the best fare for your travel and automatically deduct the value from your nominated payment card.

 

[MrJeeves]

It seems to effectively be an equivalent version of SBB CFF FFS's EasyRide or Rejsekort's/DSB's new app-based Check Ind. I think both of these are run by Fairtiq and I wouldn't be surprised if this is too.

It's just geolocation-based mobile ticketing, but EasyRide I know supports capping to daily regional tickets when I've used it.

 

[mikeg]

Sounds like a privacy nightmare, I'll still stick to orange bits of card when travelling ScotRail.

 

[MrJeeves]

So as it stands, anyone can download the app on Android/iOS and try it out. It's not invite-only.

It's also run by iBlocks, similar to GTR's keyGo and SWR's Tap2Go.

 

[smsm1]

From the FAQs traveling on the same route is capped at the weekly session ticket cost. Flexiseason tickets and split ticketing may be cheaper.

I'm annoyed my local station Camelon is just outside the area covered yet you can do Falkirk Grahamston to Glasgow where the train stops in er Camelon on the way.

Railcards are covered. I wonder if the family Railcard is covered. I've of the German regional operators (VRN) has a similar system. In fact they go a step further by turning it into an add the crow flies distance tariff with the caps of the zonal system applying. You can also add other people on top the ticket and be charged at the same time.

Answering my own question you can't take companions with you using this ticket system, you need separate tickets. Only single person Railcards are supported

Another oddity is Shawfair is included yet to get there you need to pass through Brunstane and Newcraighall.

There is a maximum journey time of 3 hours. Is that enough time from one end of the region to the other?

https://www.brfares.com/!!fares?orig=FKG&dest=FKK&period=20240915

I'm tempted to try doing Falkirk Grahamston via Polmont to Falkirk High and see what the system does considering there is no fare for that journey according to BR Fares.

 

[smsm1]

I've just used the Scotrail Tap and Pay on Android. Was a little slow generating the barcode at the start of journeys so be prepared for that.

I done Milngavie to Partick then cycled to Glasgow Queen Street to get another train to Falkirk High. It correctly treated it as a through journey with a break of journey, which is nice.

 

[Buzby]

I’m just about to use this - from Lenzie to Johnstone, what I cannot find is (a) whether I must treat Queen Street as an end-of-journey and Central the start of another (with the same in reverse). (b) An OP Day Return with Railcard is £4.70, is there any chance this system won’t notice it’s a discounted return and have to chase the overpay?

 

[smsm1]

I’m just about to use this - from Lenzie to Johnstone, what I cannot find is (a) whether I must treat Queen Street as an end-of-journey and Central the start of another (with the same in reverse). (b) An OP Day Return with Railcard is £4.70, is there any chance this system won’t notice it’s a discounted return and have to chase the overpay?

I've had a bigger gap mid journey and it has correctly joined the separate journeys together into a single ticket. I've also done it and return with different stations and it's correctly linked them to an appropriate return ticket.

If you are going to use the transfer bus you'll need to keep the ticket running. If you are likely to hit the time limit restart the journey by checking out and back in at an intermediate station would be prudent.

I've had it correctly charge the off peak return rate before, so unlikely to be an issue.

 

[smsm1]

Yesterday I've tested the new Vs through journey between Glasgow Queen Street and Glasgow Central. It works either way. Can keep the ticket open and keep tapping (at central I was waved through the wide gate barriers as the person in front had problems with scanning their tickets).

It charged the relevant off peak return. It doesn't do split tickets, though the saving would have been less than a £1 and I didn't know where I'd end up. I got to Central and took the first train towards the coast and had an enjoyable cycle ride being blown down the coast.

I'd really like to to support taking others with such as kids, with the family railcard discount as being able to hop on any train that is about to leave and getting off somewhere random is a great way to travel for me.

 

[Buzby]

I kept app running between as I walked between Queen Street and Central and there were no issues. What I did find frustrating was it still cost me more than using the Strathcldye Concession (which requires a physical purchase).

Indeed, so numerous have been my local journeys I would have overpaid a considerable amount if I used T&P. On my recent trips to Edinburgh (where I couldn’t use the concession) I also couldn’t use T&P as it was deemed ‘outwith the scheme’!

So near perfection, yet so far….

 

[smsm1]

Edinburgh is included in the tap and pay (I've used it between Edinburgh and Falkirk).

What's the Strathclyde concession?

 

[Buzby]

Edinburgh is included in the tap and pay (I've used it between Edinburgh and Falkirk).

Not when I tried last week - indeed the ScotRail website states; *The Smart Plus pilot zone includes travel between Glasgow Central, Cathcart, Neilston, Newton and intermediate stations.

The furthest out I’ve managed is Croy - nothing after.

What's the Strathclyde concession?

See this link - Strathclyde Concession

This is the area of coverage: https://www.spt.co.uk/media/3awnkger/scheme-area-map-01.jpg

 

[smsm1]

Smart Plus pilot zone

Smart plus is different to the tap and go app. Smart plus uses the smart card and uses the smart card for tracking usage https://www.scotrail.co.uk/smart-plus-welcome-logged-in

The tap and pay app which this thread is about covers a much bigger area Helensburgh in the north west, Girvan in the south west, Falkirk in the north (but not Camelon ) and Edinburgh in the east.

ScotRail PAYG App - Terms & Conditions

General Terms Our Pay As You Go app (“Services”) is operated by our service partner, iBlocks Limited (company number 03949810) (iBlocks). The Services are offered to you, the customer (“you”, “your”), by us, ScotRail Trains Limited (company number SC328826) (ScotRail), (“we,” “us” or “our”), via...

www.scotrail.co.uk

See this link - Strathclyde Concession

Thanks. Not something that covers me for a long time and I'm just outside the zone. Probably indirectly explains why some fares get a saving by splitting at Croydon or Cumbernauld however often traveling a different route out and back making splitting hard.

 

[Buzby]

Sorry - I quoted the wrong area, however I did finally find a map of the coverage area of Tap & Pay (rather than cope with their unsatisfactory solution for out of area travel)!

 

[smsm1]

Camelon station has been added and Girvan has been removed. For our household including Larbert and Stirling would help. Dunblane would be nice too.

I find tap and go is really useful for leisure travel, hop the first train and get off wherever looks nice, no planning in advance and hanging around for a specific connecting train.

 

[Buzby]

I find tap and go is really useful for leisure travel, hop the first train and get off wherever looks nice, no planning in advance

Wouldn’t that be more expensive that a standard Day return that permitted break of journey?

 

[smsm1]

Tap and pay includes breaks of journeys, I've done it a few times now, even a gap of a few stations where I've cycled between them and it's joined it together to one through day return journey.

 

[Buzby]

AIUI you are limited to around 90 minutes to complete your journey before the system decides to treat the last as your destination. I found this after a break of two hours before continuing (to Helensburgh). Rather than the single OP Day Return I was expecting I was charged for 3 singles (Croy to Singer, Singer to Helensburgh Central and Helensburgh to Croy). It made the day more expensive than buying a paper ticket!

 

[smsm1]

If you leave the station or break your journey tap out and then start a new journey once you go back to the station. It'll then join them together in my experience.

Worth supplying feedback when it doesn't as they have put in fixes where certain tickets or journeys haven't been merged correctly.

Here's 2 examples of journeys where it's joined then together and it isn't the same stations for three relevant station pairs for the adjacent journeys.

 

[GregSRHST]

Best value: Always get the best fare automatically.

So as well as it not considering if split ticketing is cheaper...it looks like super off peak day ticket prices are not considered with the "tap and pay" tickets. So if you are traveling within these restricted times it will still be required to speak to someone at the ticket office.

I'd love to be corrected if I'm wrong with this information.

 

[smsm1]

So as well as it not considering if split ticketing is cheaper...it looks like super off peak day ticket prices are not considered with the "tap and pay" tickets. So if you are traveling within these restricted times it will still be required to speak to someone at the ticket office.

I'd love to be corrected if I'm wrong with this information.

Regarding the super off peak, I've spoke with the appropriate team who have said that due to my feedback after the journey in the screenshot above some changes have been made to support the super off peak tickets. I've not tested it since though it's on my list to do.

Agree it would be good for them to also support split ticketing especially since the main operator app supports split ticketing. Worth getting the basics right first and then pushing for the more complex stuff.

 

[Adam Williams]

changes have been made to support the super off peak tickets

Very interesting - so, in Scotrail's eyes it's fine to retail them via a PAYG scheme, but not online?

 

[smsm1]

Very interesting - so, in Scotrail's eyes it's fine to retail them via a PAYG scheme, but not online?

They know which trains you've used or very likely used so can charge appropriately. From what I heard people were buying them online and using them on the wrong train. However if you turn it around and determine the ticket from the trains it reduces that issue.

 

[Breamish]

I’m really interested in this, going to try it over the weekend.

Does anyone know how it calculates the cap? Is it only for a specific journey between two stations?

For example, I quite often get the train from either Anniesland or Jordanhill into Central/Queen Street, just depending on whichever train is going to get me there soonest (I live between them). If I use this app and go Anniesland to Central, then Central to Jordanhill, is it just going to charge me for two singles, when generally, the ticket inspectors let you away with a return to Anniesland.

 

[smsm1]

I’m really interested in this, going to try it over the weekend.

Does anyone know how it calculates the cap? Is it only for a specific journey between two stations?

For example, I quite often get the train from either Anniesland or Jordanhill into Central/Queen Street, just depending on whichever train is going to get me there soonest (I live between them). If I use this app and go Anniesland to Central, then Central to Jordanhill, is it just going to charge me for two singles, when generally, the ticket inspectors let you away with a return to Anniesland.

I don't know, but am interested in the answer.

Partly why is that I'm wanting to do a similar Y shaped journey, train Camelon-Helensburgh, cycle to Gourock and then train to Camelon.

 

[Breamish]

I don't know, but am interested in the answer.

Partly why is that I'm wanting to do a similar Y shaped journey, train Camelon-Helensburgh, cycle to Gourock and then train to Camelon.

I’m quite cynical so I’ll expect the worst.

Guessing in my case that I’d have two caps, a weekly between Anniesland and Glasgow, and Jordanhill and Glasgow, and not just one.

Maybe if I try it and then give feedback, they’ll listen?

 

[smsm1]

Definitely worth pushing for improved pricing for Y shaped journeys. I'll resist getting into speculation in this thread as to what this should look like.

I've noticed over the past few days several news articles about this fare system being available, so it seems to be coming out of the initial trial stage and seen as being ready for the wider availability and usage.

 

[megabusser]

I like the idea of retrospective pricing - if just for the option of not knowing if you'll return in peak or not (and not have to deal with excesses, that almost nobody knows about anyway!).

However, I can't help feel that linking this to a Smartcard (or, ideally, just a contactless credit/debit card) would be a better solution (like Oyster or, indeed, Lothian Buses). Hopefully that'll come next. The lack of split ticketing is also problematic - plenty of tickets from Strathclyde area to Edinburgh are cheaper with a split in Glasgow.

 

[Ziggiesden]

I’m really interested in this, going to try it over the weekend.

Does anyone know how it calculates the cap? Is it only for a specific journey between two stations?

For example, I quite often get the train from either Anniesland or Jordanhill into Central/Queen Street, just depending on whichever train is going to get me there soonest (I live between them). If I use this app and go Anniesland to Central, then Central to Jordanhill, is it just going to charge me for two singles, when generally, the ticket inspectors let you away with a return to Anniesland.

Yes, is is in the T&Cs. It is quite liminted. You can save much more if you know how the fares system works.

 

[BlueLeanie]

"Always get the best fare".

For example going for a weekend break in Edinburgh. I'm only permitted to purchase a single ticket each way. If I buy a ticket to a station beyond Edinburgh, it allows an open return that requires a change at Waverley.

The open return to Edinburgh costs less than 2 singles.

So Iif the statement is true, the App should price the two singles, two days apart, as a ticket to a destination beyond my destination.

Will it?