Scottish Coal

[LWB]

Does the possible shutting down of these Scottish coal fields have a knock on effect on any rail flows?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-22225943

 

[Freightmaster]

Yes - once any stockpiles have been exhausted,
Anglo-Scottish coal traffic from the affected railheads
will cease.

Traffic from other coal loading locations such as Hunterston
(imported coal) and New Cumnock/Greenburn (not Scottish
Coal) should be unaffected, and may even increase slightly.

MARK

 

[LWB]

Thanks for that. Your point about other flows picking up is true of course - even those from imports via ports. Miserable time for those caught up in it but I was also wondering about, for example, traffic levels on the S&C.

 

[reb0118]

Two coal trains passed me in the space of about 10 minutes at Keighley yesterday heading north presumably towards the S&C and Scotland. FWIW.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Didcot is no longer burning coal as of around a fortnight ago - so this closure makes coal movement even more ad-hoc!.

I wonder if Didcot has burned all the very large stockpile it had - if not , I suppose we will see a coal from Didcot to maybe Aberthaw .....

 

[trainfanatic]

You are unlikely to see any coal flows from Didcot to Aberthaw as they burn different types of coal... Aberthaw burns anthracitic coal, a hard coal whereas Didcot used to burn soft bituminous coal.

Just to put the record straight.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

You are unlikely to see any coal flows from Didcot to Aberthaw as they burn different types of coal... Aberthaw burns anthracitic coal, a hard coal whereas Didcot used to burn soft bituminous coal.

Just to put the record straight.

Thanks for that - as my father spent 44 year in the anthracite coalfield , many of them as a manager - I think I know the diifference between various kinds of coal.

Aberthaw does burn some Welsh coal - some blended and sent by rail from GCG to Onllwyn , mixed , and then to Aberthaw. A good % comes via Portbury to Aberthaw which is imported from various world sources. (presumably not anthracite as it's a fairly rare coal - and in any case the power station was built to burn local coal - much railed in from the now closed collieries at places like Marine , Deep Dyffryn etc - def not anthracite , steam or bituminous. .

Anyway - the point was that Aberthaw is probably the nearest working coal fired power station so it would be a logical place to move unused stock - but then it could go just as easily to Rugely.

Didcot closing knocks a big hole in DB-S traffic - as there were often hourly services coming up from Avonmouth.

 

[merlodlliw]

Thanks for that - as my father spent 44 year in the anthracite coalfield , many of them as a manager - I think I know the diifference between various kinds of coal.

So whats the news on Fiddlers Ferry Chaps. Thats a big coal fired power station up here.

Bob

 

[Freightmaster]

So whats the news on Fiddlers Ferry Chaps. Thats a big coal fired power station up here.

Fiddlers has a long term future as it is fitted with gas flue desulphurisation equipment.

MARK

 

[trainfanatic]

Not quite sure what is happening at FF....I know that all these now elderly stations are due to close as they now cannot get the NOx emissions down low enough to satisfy the EU.

Spent quite a few years at FF operating a 500 megawatt boiler/turbine unit. Happy days with the down to earth scousers.

 

[6Gman]

Didcot is no longer burning coal as of around a fortnight ago - so this closure makes coal movement even more ad-hoc!.

I wonder if Didcot has burned all the very large stockpile it had - if not , I suppose we will see a coal from Didcot to maybe Aberthaw .....

Gosh - I used to spend hours each week doing the Didcot Coal Programme in my days at Rail House, Crewe! 47s & 56s in those days.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Won't be long before Didcot is demolished either. Will be weird not seeing those cooling towers anymore.

 

[Poolie]

Coal train it seems like every hour on the Durham coast line. Ironic that there are still millions of tons of coal under our feet and yet have to bring it half way round the world !!

 

[trainfanatic]

Won't be long before Didcot is demolished either. Will be weird not seeing those cooling towers anymore.

I don't think the towers (or chimney) will be demolished that soon. High Marnham and Thorpe Marsh towers stayed for quite a few years after the stations closed for the purpose of retaining height planning permission at the site.

I think a few coal fired plants should be kept in cold reserve for the energy crisis to come. I thought I was a Tory, but their Energy policy isn't working. Not quite sure what political persuasion I am now!

 

[John07]

Won't be long before Didcot is demolished either. Will be weird not seeing those cooling towers anymore.

I worked on the costing for Didcot Power Station in 1965. The design was by Consulting Engineers C S Allott. Most of the detail drawings were labelled as Ferrybridge Power Station that was also designed by Allott and was under construction at the time. While this was going on three of the cooling towers at Ferrybridge collapsed.

The wind speed was below what the cooling towers were designed to cope with. A quick redesign was required for Didcot!

 

[38Cto15E]

What happens to the Ash from these power stations? I remember in the 70s and 80s there were many trains scheduled from Ratcliffe PS to Fletton with the Fly Ash trains.

I think the ash was used to fill in the old clay excavations for making of bricks.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Some of it is made into concrete blocks for the building industry -Plasmore near Heck for example , plus it moves by rail to the South East.

 

[ewsdbs]

I hope the 590 who are getting made redundant will realise who's energy policies put them on the dole. Also the workers at Cockenzie power station which has just closed too. The Millerhill yard staff too who have suffered a knock on effect. There is no way that Scotland can become powered by 100% renewable energy. A total farce.

 

[lyndhurst25]

Hargreaves Services plc (owners of recently closed Maltby Colliery) have this week just raised £42m in a share placement "in order to capitalise on the potential opportunities to expand its portfolio of surface mining assets." I imagine that some of the Scottish Coal mines will be on their shopping list and will be reopened.

www.rnsalert.com/redirect/hsp

 

[inner-city]

So whats the news on Fiddlers Ferry Chaps. Thats a big coal fired power station up here.
Bob

It is converting over to eco wood pellets imported from the US. The unloading facilities at Liverpool Docks are being implemented. They use a big sucker to unload from the bulk carriers. Coal is still being imported into the docks for power stations in Yorkshire, until they follow suite - we hope.

 

[Mugby]

Hargreaves Services plc (owners of recently closed Maltby Colliery)

www.rnsalert.com/redirect/hsp

I didn't know Maltby had closed. With that and Daw Mill now gone, there can't be many deep mines left in England!

 

[Freightmaster]

(Fiddlers Ferry) is converting over to eco wood pellets imported from the US. The unloading facilities at Liverpool Docks are being implemented.

As far as I know, Fiddlers Ferry is remaining coal fired for the foreseeable future;
the new biomass facility at Liverpool is to supply Ironbridge power station,
which used to be coal-fired, but has recently been converted to biomass;
currently delivered from Portbury and Ellesmere Port until the Liverpool
facilty opens.

Coal is still being imported into the docks for power stations in Yorkshire

If you mean Liverpool Bulk Terminal, imported coal is currently railed to
Fiddlers Ferry and Ratcliffe - no coal traffic has ever run from Liverpool
to any of the Yorkshire power stations to my knowledge...

MARK

 

[dysonsphere]

Won't be long before Didcot is demolished either. Will be weird not seeing those cooling towers anymore.

Lets hope they don't knock them down, speaking as a pilot they are a great nav aid you can spot them from the air on a good day from about 50 miles away. Also thought the reason for closing was the lack of C02 capture systems, yet another total failure of the goverments energy ideas.

 

[lyndhurst25]

I didn't know Maltby had closed. With that and Daw Mill now gone, there can't be many deep mines left in England!

You're right there!

UK Coal now only have Thoresby and Kellingley Collieries producing coal. They also own Harworth Colliery but that is mothballed. Separately-owned Hatfield Colliery is still in production (see recent landslip!). Also, there's a small private mine called Hay Royds Colliery in Yorkshire but that has never been rail-connected.

I can't think of any more in England or Scotland that are still going.

I'm not up to date with the situation in South Wales but the last big colliery, Tower, closed a few years back. There may be a few small mines still working.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I've just read that Hay Royds closed down last year too.

 

[fsmr]

Problem with the electrical generation market is that a perfect storm is brewing pardon the pun

The EU and America have dictated that Coal is dirty in so much of the stored CO2 it releases and is thus becoming more and more expensive to use despite the significant reduction in its cost to buy due to this creating a glut worldwide, thus UK deep mine coal; cannot compete on the open market and has been seen, even open cast mines are struggling and all they need a a load of expensive but re-useable heavy earth moving machines dump trucks and some semi skilled workers, compared to a deep mine where the work force is highly paid and skilled and much of the capital equipment and infrastructure cost is lost in event of a fire, flood or working out of the seam

Couple that with zero carbon wind and solar and low maintenance and running cost gas fired stations and you end up with Coal stations in the open market being not cost effective.

That is of course until the Elephant in the room introduces himself on a cold still winters foggy night or indeed in gale force winds, when all that wind capacity suddenly drops out,

Solar is as much use as a chocolate teapot at night or even in the day in thick fog when you need it most and the gas supply then gets shut down from Europe as they struggle to keep their own supply. gas power stations and industrial users then start being taken off line to maintain the domestic gas supply, and hey presto, the frequency starts to dip and we go into an unplanned shutdown of the grid with all the fun that will cause in a technology lead society

Of course what should happen is that the coal stations that have just closed should have been paid to be available on standby for just such an event, and indeed pre –privatisation, it wouldn't have mattered as the aim was to maintain a supply at all cost even as in the case of Leicester it meant having oil fired stations sat ready to step in
We also had masses of smaller power stations back then so you could loose a couple on an unplanned shutdown. If there was god forbid a major incident that closed Drax, then the grid would be only heading one way



)

 

[Monty]

The only viable alternative to coal and gas fired power stations is nuclear power, and despite the current government's preference for it we could be waiting decades before the first new reactors come online (considering the politcal fallout un intended ). Yet more and more coal fired stations and older reactors are decomissioned while no real plans for their replacement guaranteed, all this while our consumption rises.

Renewable sources have their place but the technology just isn't there to generate the huge amounts of power this country needs.