Season tickets on Oyster

[fairysdad]

Before I get into this, be aware that this is a vent as much as anything else, and there's a TL;DR at the bottom.

So. Back in March, my annual Z1-6 season ticket, on an Oyster card, purchased through a work season ticket loan scheme, which runs via thetrainline*, ended. On reapplying for it, it somehow got lost in the company HR system, despite several attempts by me and my line manager of chasing it up.

(* As an aside, anybody know why you can only use thetrainline's business website during office hours Monday to Friday? Due to increased demand apparently, but surely the increased demand would be spread out if people could use the website 24-7 like most sensible websites do?)

At the end of August, after my annual leave, I decided to try again, filled in the online form, and this time it got through HR's labyrinthine system with no problems. There was a note saying that it would have to be on a paper ticket this time and not an Oyster card, which was okay - not ideal given the 'pocket life' of paper tickets, but fine. A week or so of waiting for the ticket to arrive in the post later, and an email pops into my inbox from thetrainline telling me that they can't provide the paper ticket as before due to a restriction from ATOC. My reply was that couldn't they do it on Oyster as before, and their response was that they couldn't because of a restriction from TfL.

So... possibly one of the more used type of season tickets out there (London travelcards) can't be issued by what is - unfortunately - one of the market leaders in train ticket selling because of separate restrictions from two different companies.

I returned to HR and asked for advice, who sent me the form for season tickets that could not be purchased via thetrainline, with the money for the ticket being included in this month's pay packet which I received yesterday (half expecting it to be denied by HR for some convoluted reason but that's by-the-by).

Armed with an extra ~£2,500 in my bank account, I go to my local (NR) station to put the ticket on my card. The ticket office was closed, and the machine doesn't do anything longer than monthlies. (Which is fair enough, quite a high amount really.) So I go to the next station up the line where the ticket office is open in the afternoons, and try there. "Nope, we can't do Oyster cards," they say, "But we can do the SWR one." "Can I use it on buses?" I ask, "No." Fine. "You can do it at a London Underground station though," he suggests, so off I go to my nearest LU station, Morden. (Actually, it's possible that Wimbledon is closer, but that's not the point.)

Hop to the machine, no dice. Monthly season tickets the maximum length they can do. I ask a member of staff - thinking their 'secret staff options' would let them do it - who tells me that it can't be done on the machines, and I could "probably do it online."

I return home and go to the TfL website and, indeed, I can and did do it online and once I tap in for my journey to work later on it'll be added to the card.

But it does raise the question - why have TfL made it so difficult? a) Why have they stopped thetrainline from issuing Oyster cards? b) why have ATOC stopped thetrainline from issuing paper travelcards? c) why can't a NR station ticket office issue it? d) why can't a London Underground station issue one?

(and, final question e) how do I get my Gold Card? That information is hard to come by as well...)

 

[Haywain]

b) why have ATOC stopped thetrainline from issuing paper travelcards?

London Travelcards are no longer issued as paper tickets. It was a TfL decision.

c) why can't a NR station ticket office issue it?

Because all but a very small number of stations do not deal with Oyster cards. Most NR stations would be able to load a Travrlcard onto a (non-Oyster) smartcard, and that would be able to be used on buses.

e) how do I get my Gold Card?

It should be posted out to you by TfL.

 

[Watershed]

London Travelcards are no longer issued as paper tickets. It was a TfL decision.

Day Travelcards are still available as paper tickets - though probably not for much longer...

 

[Haywain]

Day Travelcards are still available as paper tickets - though probably not for much longer...

Yes, but not really relevant to the OP’s question.

 

[fairysdad]

London Travelcards are no longer issued as paper tickets. It was a TfL decision.

Interesting, the email I received from thetrainline said: "The Rail Delivery Group have withdrawn the option for paper season travelcards for exclusive travel within the London zones from June 2022. As such, we are unable to process your order." (I mistakenly said ATOC in my original post) making it sound like it wasn't a TfL decision to do so. Makes sense that it was TfL though, and it is a fairly sensible decision really as paper tickets are fragile and are probably not as cost-effective as Oyster or Contactless (I suspect that in an ideal world, TfL would want to drop Oyster altogether and just use contactless!)

Because all but a very small number of stations do not deal with Oyster cards. Most NR stations would be able to load a Travrlcard onto a (non-Oyster) smartcard, and that would be able to be used on buses.

Again, why? Why have TfL made this decision for NR stations not to do Oysters? (Are the ones that do the few solely Overground stations with ticket offices?) It's useful to know that a non-Oyster smartcard can have a travelcard on it that would work on TfL buses - shame the person I spoke to yesterday didn't know that!

All in all, it does go back to my first question - why have TfL made it so difficult? Why have they made these decisions that mean that a third-party retailer - whether thetrainline or even other railway companies - can't issue Oyster cards with travelcards on it, or that I can't even get an annual card from an Underground station?

 

[Haywain]

Why have TfL made this decision for NR stations not to do Oysters? (Are the ones that do the few solely Overground stations with ticket offices?)

It's because the requirements for dealing with Oyster are quite onerous, and that most ticket issuing systems are incompatible with Oyster fulfilment. It's simply not worth the expense - I couldn't justify it 10 years ago when I was managing the ticket office at a major London terminal. I believe that some London Overground stations can deal with Oyster, but I'm not sure if it's all of them.

It's useful to know that a non-Oyster smartcard can have a travelcard on it that would work on TfL buses - shame the person I spoke to yesterday didn't know that!

It is a requirement that if you sell Travelcards to smartcards they have to be accepted on all transport modes, and TfL charge a healthy amount (healthy for them) to carry out testing to ensure that they are accepted and the smartcards are 'approved'.

 

[duncanp]

I think the easiest way of purchasing an annual travelcard for Zones 1-6 would be to order it online, to be loaded onto a specified Oyster card.

You can then load it onto the Oyster card by tapping on a yellow Oyster card reader, be that on a bus or at a tube station.

The gold card will then be posted to you.

This is what I did when I was living and working in London.

 

[fairysdad]

I think the easiest way of purchasing an annual travelcard for Zones 1-6 would be to order it online, to be loaded onto a specified Oyster card.

You can then load it onto the Oyster card by tapping on a yellow Oyster card reader, be that on a bus or at a tube station.

The gold card will then be posted to you.

This is what I did when I was living and working in London.

Yeah, that's what I've done, and to be fair the process wasn't difficult to do. But the point is shouldn't it be possible to be able to do this at a station? Or - as it was only a year ago - via a third party retailer that chances are a vast majority of companies use for their rail travel requirements?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Yeah, that's what I've done, and to be fair the process wasn't difficult to do. But the point is shouldn't it be possible to be able to do this at a station? Or - as it was only a year ago - via a third party retailer that chances are a vast majority of companies use for their rail travel requirements?

Given the bit that I have put in bold, it would seem that a solution would be to clearly signpost the not-difficult process from everywhere that a customer might start looking, rather than giving them the run-around until they stumble on the right answer.

 

[Snow1964]

I think the easiest way of purchasing an annual travelcard for Zones 1-6 would be to order it online, to be loaded onto a specified Oyster card.

You can then load it onto the Oyster card by tapping on a yellow Oyster card reader, be that on a bus or at a tube station.

The gold card will then be posted to you.

This is what I did when I was living and working in London.

The major flaw is if you live near a station in South London, probably won’t use a bus and there are no tube stations nearby.

Which goes back to original Op statement,why do they make it difficult, and becomes a two part transaction, so have to go out of your way having bought an annual travelcard on oyster to get it loaded up.

 

[duncanp]

The major flaw is if you live near a station in South London, probably won’t use a bus and there are no tube stations nearby.

Which goes back to original Op statement,why do they make it difficult, and becomes a two part transaction, so have to go out of your way having bought an annual travelcard on oyster to get it loaded up.

You can also load the travelcard on to the Oyster card by tapping on a yellow Oyster card reader at a National Rail station in Zones 1 - 6.

If you want to purchase an annual travelcard without going online, get the gold card discount added and receive the gold record card straight away, this can be done at the TfL visitor centres at Heathrow, Kings Cross, Liverpool Street, Piccadilly Circus and Victoria.

This may involve you going out of your way, but on the other hand it only has to be done once a year, and everything is completed in one transaction.

 

[XAM2175]

Given the bit that I have put in bold, it would seem that a solution would be to clearly signpost the not-difficult process from everywhere that a customer might start looking, rather than giving them the run-around until they stumble on the right answer.

Yes, I think this is the key thing to take away here.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Again, why? Why have TfL made this decision for NR stations not to do Oysters? (Are the ones that do the few solely Overground stations with ticket offices?) It's useful to know that a non-Oyster smartcard can have a travelcard on it that would work on TfL buses - shame the person I spoke to yesterday didn't know that!

To be able to fulfil Oyster products, stations needed to have at least one Cubic FasTIS+ machine installed (no doubt costing something stupid like £10k or more), as Cubic/TfL wouldn't licence the technology to other Ticket Issuing System suppliers.

Only London Overground and Chiltern used FasTIS as their primary TIS, with other TOCs retailing Oyster products as paper tickets and then using a FasTIS in Non-Revenue mode to load them onto the card.

As a result, my understanding is that Cubic basically pulled the plug on FasTIS when it needed a major upgrade to retain Rail Settlement Plan accreditation, thereby ending the ability for NR Ticket Offices to retail Oyster.

 

[island]

I believe that some London Overground stations can deal with Oyster, but I'm not sure if it's all of them.

To my knowledge, even Overground stations can only issue Oyster products via ticket machines, and not the ticket offices (not that most LO ticket offices spend much time open).

 

[Wallsendmag]

To my knowledge, even Overground stations can only issue Oyster products via ticket machines, and not the ticket offices (not that most LO ticket offices spend much time open).

Overground use the same (non Oyster comparable) TIS as we do

 

[ctom_s]

It should be posted out to you by TfL.

Albeit about 2 weeks (no exaggeration, it was sent out 10 days later and took 3 to arrive) after your travelcard starts (not even when you make the order), if my experience is a good guide to the future.

 

[[.n]]

You can also load the travelcard on to the Oyster card by tapping on a yellow Oyster card reader at a National Rail station in Zones 1 - 6.

If you want to purchase an annual travelcard without going online, get the gold card discount added and receive the gold record card straight away, this can be done at the TfL visitor centres at Heathrow, Kings Cross, Liverpool Street, Piccadilly Circus and Victoria.

This may involve you going out of your way, but on the other hand it only has to be done once a year, and everything is completed in one transaction.

I wonder how they expect a use case like mine (where I would want a Z1-Z2) travelcard, but live way out of the zones/London - how do I collect that? I don't at the moment but am expecting to going back to wanting this paper travelcard soon

 

[Watershed]

I wonder how they expect a use case like mine (where I would want a Z1-Z2) travelcard, but live way out of the zones/London - how do I collect that? I don't at the moment but am expecting to going back to wanting this paper travelcard soon

You can't buy paper period Travelcards anymore - only Day Travelcards.

 

[[.n]]

You can't buy paper period Travelcards anymore - only Day Travelcards.

Yes, but I was wondering how that would work - is a [period] London zonal only travelcard something that a [NR] ticket office should be able to sell you? If so how would I as someone who lives outside of London, but traveling into London collect my travelcard - whilst simultaneously still needing it to get to London? (I sometimes split season tickets - hence its not a full out of boundary travelcard that is required). If I could load it onto a different smartcard, then I could at least do that via my phone

 

[Wallsendmag]

Go in to a ticket office ask for what you want pay for it walk out with the tickets Simples

 

[Deerfold]

Go in to a ticket office ask for what you want pay for it walk out with the tickets Simples

You can be very condescending. We've just had a thread about how at many ticket offices it's hard to buy these products. How is it suddenly not only possible, but doable by a Russian meerkat??

 

[[.n]]

Go in to a ticket office ask for what you want pay for it walk out with the tickets Simples

So in part c) the OP stated that NR ticket offices can't issue onto Oyster [and certaintly my ticket offices are way out of TFL land, so won't have Oyster] so where is the simples for my purchase of a Z1-2 Travelcard?

 

[Haywain]

So in part c) the OP stated that NR ticket offices can't issue onto Oyster [and certaintly my ticket offices are way out of TFL land, so won't have Oyster] so where is the simples for my purchase of a Z1-2 Travelcard?

Post #2 might help.

 

[Wallsendmag]

So in part c) the OP stated that NR ticket offices can't issue onto Oyster [and certaintly my ticket offices are way out of TFL land, so won't have Oyster] so where is the simples for my purchase of a Z1-2 Travelcard

NR stations and quite a few TVMs can fulfil Travelcards to Smartcards. Even our TC in Edinburgh can do this are you more than 400 miles from TfL land?

 

[Deerfold]

NR stations and quite a few TVMs can fulfil Travelcards to Smartcards. Even our TC in Edinburgh can do this are you more than 400 miles from TfL land?

So long as the ticket office doesn't incorrectly warn they can't be used on buses as they did to the OP.

Otherwise he could have simply done as you advised instead of having to come and ask here.

 

[Wallsendmag]

So long as the ticket office doesn't incorrectly warn they can't be used on buses as they did to the OP.

Otherwise he could have simply done as you advised instead of having to come and ask here.

Let this be a lesson to everyone, go and buy your season ticket at Kings Cross and they'll even supply it on a Smartcard with your face on there and then at no extra charge.

 

[Deerfold]

Let this be a lesson to everyone, go and buy your season ticket at Kings Cross and they'll even supply it on a Smartcard with your face on there and then at no extra charge.

So simple, *if you go to the right ticket office* (though thank you for that recommendation).

I don't think I was too popular there last time I bought a season ticket - 3 grand in twenties...

 

[island]

If you're at Kings Cross already I would advice you to buy from the TfL visitor centre, if only because a zonal season ticket on Oyster can have PAYG credit added for use to places like Gatwick Airport, which an ITSO cannot.

 

[ctom_s]

If you're at Kings Cross already I would advice you to buy from the TfL visitor centre, if only because a zonal season ticket on Oyster can have PAYG credit added for use to places like Gatwick Airport, which an ITSO cannot.

Fully agree with this, I just switched from c2c smartcard to Oyster for this exact reason

 

[Deerfold]

If you're at Kings Cross already I would advice you to buy from the TfL visitor centre, if only because a zonal season ticket on Oyster can have PAYG credit added for use to places like Gatwick Airport, which an ITSO cannot.

If you're there Tuesday to Saturday 0900-1630.