Seating and comfort on the IEPs vs HSTs

[absolutelymilk]

Many forum members have complained about the new seating on the IEPs, comparing it unfavourably to the HSTs. They have especially complained about the first class comparison. What do you think? Is it likely the seats will be changed if travellers are put off by the change?

 

[Butts]

Many forum members have complained about the new seating on the IEPs, comparing it unfavourably to the HSTs. They have especially complained about the first class comparison. What do you think? Is it likely the seats will be changed if travellers are put off by the change?

Can anyone envisage sitting from Inverness to London Kings Cross in 1st Class if Virgin are going to adopt the same seats as GWR when they get their Class 800's ?

You would at least be able to imbibe plenty of "Free Scotch" (if that is still on offer) to sufficiently anaesthetise yourself to face the ordeal.

Is Cattle even worse ?

Seriously these 1st Class 800 seats are like deck chairs compared to the HST (especially GWR) derivative.

 

[43096]

Can anyone envisage sitting from Inverness to London Kings Cross in 1st Class if Virgin are going to adopt the same seats as GWR when they get their Class 800's ?

Virgin are not taking the seats by choice - IEP is a DfT specified train. All complaints should be directed to the DfT....

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't mind hard seats, and quite like "ironing boards", though the GWR HST seat, the Grammer IC3000, is my present UK favourite and the only seat used in the UK that is good enough to be used in premium trains elsewhere (e.g. Railjet, PKP FLIRT and I think DB use it in some trains). The cheaper Grammer E3000 used in all UK Desiros is also acceptable to me, indeed.

The problem with the IEP seat is that it is very highly contoured (and the benefit of the others noted is that they are not). The effect of this is that it fits a particular back size/shape well, and is not good for other back lengths.

The IEP seat is a low-backed one with headrest "wings". These "wings" are present on many styles of seat including the Chapman seat used in most Turbostars. However, these are softer seats. The problem with the IEP seat is that if you are tall with a long back those "wings" press into the back of your shoulders and force you to either slouch or hunch forwards. The Turbostar seat doesn't do this to the same extent because it is softer.

Unfortunately, that issue gave me back pain by Reading and I was glad of an HST back.

FWIW one of the reasons for my dislike of ScotRail's new Class 385s is this seat. Unbelievably, it is used in First Class, where it replaces the much larger and much more comfortable Class 170 First Class seat. Like on London Northwestern services, this is another train where I would pay extra to sit in Standard.

 

[cambsy]

I think the IEP seats are not nearly as nice as the leather HST seats on GWR, but this partly due to new trains fire regulation, to do with fire retardation etc, last week I spent about 9 hours on Wednesday trying out the IEP’s in First class, did Padd-Bristol-Padd-Swansea-Padd, The seats are fairly comfortable and reasonably wide, with charging points at every seat, they look nice enough but nothing special, they recline nicely, I found them comfortable enough for the 9 hours I was on them for, certainly didn’t get off thinking never again, Definitely its a case of paying for more space and room, probably slightly nicer seats than standard, though didn’t try the standard seats,

I think its just a general lowering of the difference between First and standard class, new trains First class definitely doesn’t have any swish factor about it, which a shame, something like VTEC First Class with leather seats and a swish interior would look so much better on an IEP than what they have now, but it does the job, and most passengers who use it will be fine with them, which is who GWR are bothered about at the end of the day.

 

[Butts]

Virgin are not taking the seats by choice - IEP is a DfT specified train. All complaints should be directed to the DfT....

Could they have specified the same seats as the existing GWR HST 1st Class offering ?

 

[43096]

Could they have specified the same seats as the existing GWR HST 1st Class offering ?

I refer you to the answer I gave some moments before - speak to DfT!

 

[Butts]

I refer you to the answer I gave some moments before - speak to DfT!

I meant the DFT !!

 

[43096]

I meant the DFT !!

Ah, right!

No reason why they couldn't specify different seats, provided they meet current standards. But passenger comfort is an irrelvance on today's railway - quality is measured by "is it new" rather than any other measure. As a result we get low grade seating in new trains as it ticks the box with DfT either as part of DfT procured trains (Thameslink, IEP) or in new franchise bids.

 

[swt_passenger]

Perhaps the people making the decisions just saw the present GWR HST First as completely over the top and unnecessary?

 

[Butts]

Perhaps the people making the decisions just saw the present GWR HST First as completely over the top and unnecessary?

They might not hold the same view if they had to sit in an 800 1st Class Seat between Inverness and London let alone Cardiff and London !!

 

[westv]

But passenger comfort is an irrelvance on today's railway - quality is measured by "is it new" rather than any other measure.

Does anybody actually care about passengers?
TOCs only seem to care about getting the cash from passengers.
The Government only seems to care about getting the cash from the TOCs
The unions only seem to care about getting the cash from the TOCs

 

[swt_passenger]

They might not hold the same view if they had to sit in an 800 1st Class Seat between Inverness and London let alone Cardiff and London !!

No one has to sit in a first class seat, whatever the journey.

 

[Butts]

No one has to sit in a first class seat, whatever the journey.

Very witty !!!

Have you experienced the existing FGW HST 1st Class Seat and it's 800 successor ? - If so which do you prefer and why ?

 

[swt_passenger]

Very witty !!!

Have you experienced the existing FGW HST 1st Class Seat and it's 800 successor ? - If so which do you prefer and why ?

Yes to the HST. It's why I definitely think it is over the top and completely unrepresentative of what is needed for 'normal'.

 

[Butts]

Yes to the HST. It's why I definitely think it is over the top and completely unrepresentative of what is needed for 'normal'.

But Inverness to London ? could there be a case made for it's retention !!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Perhaps the people making the decisions just saw the present GWR HST First as completely over the top and unnecessary?

Possibly so, it is rather lavish. And with the future of First Class likely to be as a less "posh" product upgraded to by leisure travellers and people upgrading themselves with their company having paid for a Standard ticket, as increasing numbers of companies and statutory organisations will not pay for 1st themselves, that might well be a sensible decision.

I haven't sat in one of the 1st seats, but they don't look *uncomfortable* - perhaps on a par with Pendolino 1st which is decent enough to me? 1st looks a bit DB ICE or similar, really.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But Inverness to London ? could there be a case made for it's retention !!

But the ones operating from Inverness to London aren't the same as the GWR HST ones. Penzance, I'll give you.

It will be interesting to see what seats GWR put in the 802s, those being purchased via a more conventional leasing agreement with GWR able to specify and pay for what they wish.

 

[Butts]

Possibly so, it is rather lavish. And with the future of First Class likely to be as a less "posh" product upgraded to by leisure travellers and people upgrading themselves with their company having paid for a Standard ticket, as increasing numbers of companies and statutory organisations will not pay for 1st themselves, that might well be a sensible decision.

I haven't sat in one of the 1st seats, but they don't look *uncomfortable* - perhaps on a par with Pendolino 1st which is decent enough to me? 1st looks a bit DB ICE or similar, really.

A Penedolino 1st Class seat is far more padded and comfortable than the 800 - even a Voyager one is better let alone other HST's.

 

[Butts]

But the ones operating from Inverness to London aren't the same as the GWR HST ones. Penzance, I'll give you.

It will be interesting to see what seats GWR put in the 802s, those being purchased via a more conventional leasing agreement with GWR able to specify and pay for what they wish.

I sincerely hope so !!

 

[Bletchleyite]

A Penedolino 1st Class seat is far more padded and comfortable than the 800 - even a Voyager one is better let alone other HST's.

I'll have to try one. I nearly did last time, but the price was outrageous between London and Reading (there's no off peak 1st nor Advances), and a quick Reading-and-back was all I had time for due to another commitment.

Voyagers have the same seats as Pendolinos (in both classes), though the 1st ones have been leather-ed on VTWC.

 

[43096]

But the ones operating from Inverness to London aren't the same as the GWR HST ones. Penzance, I'll give you.

It will be interesting to see what seats GWR put in the 802s, those being purchased via a more conventional leasing agreement with GWR able to specify and pay for what they wish.

I wouldn't hold out much hope for anything different. Last I heard they had specified the same seats for the 802s as the 800s. Not surprising, really, from an organisation who's MD said they didn't want trains with underfloor engines for the south west, and then ordered trains with underfloor engines.

 

[Butts]

I'll have to try one. I nearly did last time, but the price was outrageous between London and Reading (there's no off peak 1st nor Advances), and a quick Reading-and-back was all I had time for due to another commitment.

Voyagers have the same seats as Pendolinos (in both classes), though the 1st ones have been leather-ed on VTWC.

Hope you get the chance - Advance 1st Newport - Swansea (a similar distance to London-Reading ?) available for £11

It's like going on a "Posh Pacer" compared to the Luxury Leather on the HST

If only GWR would throw in free alcohol their HST 1st Class offering would be almost perfect. There was Wine but no Spirits or Beers.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Hope you get the chance - Advance 1st Newport - Swansea (a similar distance to London-Reading ?) available for £11

It's like going on a "Posh Pacer" compared to the Luxury Leather on the HST

That might be worth a go.

Are the seats the same as the ones on the Class 185 and 350/4, they look similar? Those are comfortable enough, I've used 1st on TPE a few times (largely so as to get *any* seat ).

Mind you, TPE are in the process of leathering up in a posh colour of beige!

 

[Butts]

That might be worth a go.

Are the seats the same as the ones on the Class 185 and 350/4, they look similar? Those are comfortable enough, I've used 1st on TPE a few times (largely so as to get *any* seat ).

Mind you, TPE are in the process of leathering up in a posh colour of beige!

TPE's 1st Class Offering is a "beggars nightmare"

 

[Bletchleyite]

TPE's 1st Class Offering is a "beggars nightmare"

A what sorry? (Call me thick )

 

[Butts]

A what sorry? (Call me thick )

No you are not thick it's my poor use of grammar.

I refer to myself as a not very wealthy person who likes to enjoy an occasional "1st Class Treat" when I can.

As it is not an experience I am able to afford very often I like to get my moneys worth in terms of freebies onboard and Lounge Access. TPE for long distance is probably about the worst you can get.

In a couple of years time I will qualify for a Senior Railcard but I fear there will be nothing left worth getting a discount on.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ah, I see

 

[shaun]

Are GWR not now changing the moquette in Standard on 80x classes? Thought I read they were... That might pad them a little better, the only issue I had when travelling on one was the hardness of the base. The seats themselves otherwise were comfy enough and would be up to HST standards in my book with that issue resolved. That said all new train seats take a while to bed in, like how people were complaining about the hardness of 444 seats 13 years or so ago! They have definitely got more comfy over time, hopefully the same will go for the 80x seats.

Havent tried 1st on GWR since the previous HST refurb, but the 800 FC still looks nice if a little less flash.

 

[gazthomas]

Apart from being a bit upright (and I'm used to it as I'm 6ft 4in tall) I found the seats fine. I do think there is an emerging market for a blow up "mini cushion" for use in 800's, 700's and others!

Like this one: https://www.completecareshop.co.uk/... 5&utm_term=1100610803264&utm_content=Under 5