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Services between Wigan and Bolton today 12/12/21

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Starmill

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Today there's a significant shortage of train crew affecting Manchester and some other other parts of the North West of England.

The information that most trains would be cancelled on some routes was put out yesterday. Today it reads as follows:
On Sunday 12 December, there will be some cancellations to services in the North West due to impacts of covid and availability of train crew.

The following routes will be affected:

Blackpool North – Liverpool Lime Street
Wigan North Western – Manchester Victoria
Lancaster – Morecambe
Southport – Blackburn
Manchester Victoria – Clitheroe
Liverpool – Manchester Airport
Blackpool North – Hellifield
Online journey planners including websites and apps are being updated and are expected to be corrected by Saturday 11 December. We strongly advise anyone travelling on these routes to check before you travel.

If your train has been cancelled, you can travel on the earlier or later Northern service. Trains on these routes are expected to be busier so please allow additional time to travel.

We are sorry for the inconvience these cancellations may cause.

On some routes between 2/3 and 3/4 of services have been cancelled the day before, but between Wigan and Bolton there's no service whatsoever, which means that Westhoughton is unserved. The information above doesn't make that clear, indeed it implies the opposite where it says "you can travel on the earlier or later Northern service".

There is no alternative train service between Wigan and Bolton, no rail replacement bus service, and no ticket acceptance on local buses.

The social media team suggested to me that I could travel via Leyland. When pressed, they were unable to say that there was special permission in place to do this; normally it would not be permitted with a ticket from Wigan to Bolton. I didn't ask, but it seems that there's also no assurance that a ticket purchased from Westhoughton would also be accepted for travel on any train from nearby Daisy Hill station.

There's no further travel information provided and there was only a day's notice.

I would agree that almost all of Northern's conductors would be happy to allow travel via Manchester Oxford Road or Leyland given the complete absence of any other routes, once this had been explained, but I don't think that this makes it OK. In addition some ticket retailers will (correctly) charge a much higher price for use of the route via Leyland. Anyone booking through one of those will have been charged more than usual for a slower, less convenient journey.

I think that everyone understands that train crew shortages are very real. But is this really the best that could have been done?
 
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NorthWestRover

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Wigan to Manchester was hard enough today. Nothing between 10.23 (NW to OR) and 13.15 (Wallgate to Vic) unless I'm mistaken. I had to get a lift to Bolton and pick up a wedged 3-car 331. Why not 6??
 

D9006

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As a Transport manager of a local bus firm in Wigan, we had the resources to provide DD buses for railway replacement services, I can’t believe that none were provided as usual operator of Wigan to Bolton rail replacement service would easily have also been able to provide some too. But no effort made by management to source any replacement buses
 

Starmill

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As a Transport manager of a local bus firm in Wigan, we had the resources to provide DD buses for railway replacement services, I can’t believe that none were provided as usual operator of Wigan to Bolton rail replacement service would easily have also been able to provide some too. But no effort made by management to source any replacement buses
Goodness. Were you one of the contractors providing buses for rail replacement last Sunday, and many Sundays before?
 

D9006

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Goodness. Were you one of the contractors providing buses for rail replacement last Sunday, and many Sundays before?
Not last Sunday but on numerous occasions in the past, I remember providing buses to Southport when flower show was on and a train had failed on the line, this was down within 20 mins of receiving the call , in the days when Wigan Wallgate manager organised it directly. Plus of course providing buses on Sunday a lot cheaper on the wage bill too

Wigan to Manchester was hard enough today. Nothing between 10.23 (NW to OR) and 13.15 (Wallgate to Vic) unless I'm mistaken. I had to get a lift to Bolton and pick up a wedged 3-car 331. Why not 6??
Looking at realtrain times, 5 trains to Manchester and 4 from Manchester at Hindley for today’s service, from today was meant to be 2 per hour

This is Northerns service from Southport for a full day today
 

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Starmill

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Not last Sunday but on numerous occasions in the past, I remember providing buses to Southport when flower show was on and a train had failed on the line, this was down within 20 mins of receiving the call , in the days when Wigan Wallgate manager organised it directly. Plus of course providing buses on Sunday a lot cheaper on the wage bill too


Looking at realtrain times, 5 trains to Manchester and 4 from Manchester at Hindley for today’s service, from today was meant to be 2 per hour

This is Northerns service from Southport for a full day today
Indeed. There were only 5 services today between Clitheroe and Manchester via Darwen too.
 

geoffk

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Not last Sunday but on numerous occasions in the past, I remember providing buses to Southport when flower show was on and a train had failed on the line, this was down within 20 mins of receiving the call , in the days when Wigan Wallgate manager organised it directly. Plus of course providing buses on Sunday a lot cheaper on the wage bill too


Looking at realtrain times, 5 trains to Manchester and 4 from Manchester at Hindley for today’s service, from today was meant to be 2 per hour

This is Northerns service from Southport for a full day today
And the missing trains are not shown as cancelled, they're just not there. See other thread about Cross-Country!
 

Starmill

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And the missing trains are not shown as cancelled, they're just not there. See other thread about Cross-Country!
Indeed. This is because they were cancelled yesterday, so it is permitted for them to simply vanish.
 

geoffk

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Indeed. This is because they were cancelled yesterday, so it is permitted for them to simply vanish.
Makes you feel the timetable is worthless. I was going to say "not worth the paper it's printed on" but then I realised they are not printed any more!
 
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I was trying to get from Wigan to Leicester, via the Hope Valley line, today. I noticed there was a 2hour gap between trains from Wigan to Manchester, but thought nothing of it until arriving at the station to an announcement that the 11:23 had been cancelled, and everyone did indeed have to wait 2 hours. Thankfully I was able to alter plans and travel via Birmingham, but even then there were multiple cancellations on WMT, TfW, Avanti & Cross Country. Every other announcement at New Street seemed to cause more headaches for the already stressed station staff.
Unfortunately, not a good day to be travelling on the railway.
 

Johnny Lewis

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Looking at realtimetrains, it looks as if a grand total of 9 trains - 4 in one direction, 5 in the other - ran on the Atherton line yesterday, at between 3 and 4 hour intervals. Presumably the scheduled service is hourly?
 

Watershed

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Looking at realtimetrains, it looks as if a grand total of 9 trains - 4 in one direction, 5 in the other - ran on the Atherton line yesterday, at between 3 and 4 hour intervals. Presumably the scheduled service is hourly?
Yes. But almost all services were cancelled the night before, meaning that they didn't count as on-the-day cancellations and hence the statistics looked good. No doubt anyone trying to claim Delay Repay will be told the system doesn't recognise the train they planned to catch, or simply that they're "not entitled to compensation" as compensation is payable against the "booked timetable".
 

D9006

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Yes. But almost all services were cancelled the night before, meaning that they didn't count as on-the-day cancellations and hence the statistics looked good. No doubt anyone trying to claim Delay Repay will be told the system doesn't recognise the train they planned to catch, or simply that they're "not entitled to compensation" as compensation is payable against the "booked timetable".
Trouble is the majority of Sunday passengers wI’ll only look on the day in question , as a bus operator if I decided the day before to cancel that amount of journeys I would be hauled up before the traffic commissioner to explain myself, but it seems the rail industry can get away with it
 

Starmill

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Trouble is the majority of Sunday passengers wI’ll only look on the day in question , as a bus operator if I decided the day before to cancel that amount of journeys I would be hauled up before the traffic commissioner to explain myself, but it seems the rail industry can get away with it
I certainly think it's an unreasonable way to make changes to the timetable. But it could have been mitigated against with any one or more of the suggestions I gave. Sadly this opportunity wasn't taken on this occasion.
 

Gricer99

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And this in the same week as they send out a questionnaire to their ”Northeneers” asking what we think of a proposed charter which so many unachievable promises to keep everyone up to date and compensate for inconvenience!
I suppose they will use the usual get out...It’s all the fault of Covid.
 

30907

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I suppose they will use the usual get out...It’s all the fault of Covid.
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...king-week-drivers-guards.225946/#post-5444673

From this thread Northern ex RRNW/FNW staff are among those for whom Sunday working is entirely voluntary. New timetable, new rosters (?), the run-up to Christmas, an unhappy history of disputes - I am not sure I would blame Covid solely.
(Note: I am NOT suggesting any one of these as a specific cause as I have no knowledge.)
 

AMD

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Other than the planned introduction of Wigan NW to Victoria via Bolton services the rosters were very much the same as previous Sundays.
The biggest issue is as noted above it's the run up to Christmas and services are very busy at the weekend which makes the conductor role harder work because we are having to deal with more drunks among other passengers, so allied with the fact that on the west side it's entirely voluntary we are simply choosing not to work Sundays at the moment. The conversations also circulate around what conductors get financially, unlike drivers who get £450 minimum for a Sunday its just time + quarter so you can either earn between £100 and £150 (after tax) depending on your shift length or you can have a quality day off with your family - and you can see what most conductors are choosing......
 

Taunton

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Looking at realtrain times, 5 trains to Manchester and 4 from Manchester at Hindley for today’s service, from today was meant to be 2 per hour
Well, probably felt not to matter that much, there's lots of buses parallel. Why bother?

This is the line, Wigan to Bolton, which is having the fortune-per-mile spent on electrification, announced recently, yes? The electrification funded by the DfT from London, who all seem to pillory and criticise for not investing in the region. Meanwhile, on the very line in question, the operator feels it's somewhat optional to even provide any semblance of a full service, and gerrymanders the cancellations so they don't appear in the statistics. Maybe we should write to Grant Shapps and suggest better places for the money to be spent.
 

D9006

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Well, probably felt not to matter that much, there's lots of buses parallel. Why bother?

This is the line, Wigan to Bolton, which is having the fortune-per-mile spent on electrification, announced recently, yes? The electrification funded by the DfT from London, who all seem to pillory and criticise for not investing in the region. Meanwhile, on the very line in question, the operator feels it's somewhat optional to even provide any semblance of a full service, and gerrymanders the cancellations so they don't appear in the statistics. Maybe we should write to Grant Shapps and suggest better places for the money to be spent.
Unfortunately there are no direct buses from Wigan/Hindley to Manchester, I agree the money should be directed somewhere else to an operator that is at least going to run trains 7 days a week and not give 24hrs notice when it’s going to cancel 75% of the service and then cancel 25% of what’s left
 

Gricer99

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Unfortunately there are no direct buses from Wigan/Hindley to Manchester, I agree the money should be directed somewhere else to an operator that is at least going to run trains 7 days a week and not give 24hrs notice when it’s going to cancel 75% of the service and then cancel 25% of what’s left
Isn’t Northern effectively nationalised now?
 
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