Setting gates to reject tickets - Thameslink

[Deerfold]

I had a recent trip from Yorkshire to Brighton. Travelling on LNER was relatively straightforward, even on the return on a strike day. However, all 4 Thameslink barriers rejected both my and my wife's tickets, saying "seek assistance".

As they were accepted by LNER barriers at both ends, I suspect Thameslink had set the barriers to reject them, either because they were advances or because they were railcard-discounted.

So, each time we had to make our over, along a busy gateline, with suitcases, to the one member of staff there, show our ticket and be let through. On none of the four occasions were we asked for our reservations or our railcard.

Is there any other reason than setting the barriers to do this that this is likely to have happened four times? Is there any point if the ticket restrictions aren't going to be checked in any way? There seemed to be a lot of people having similar problems at times when the barriers were very busy.

I'd have much preferred ticket checks on the trains - I doubt very much everyone in the fairly crowded 1st class section had a first class ticket.

 

[Wallsendmag]

It'll be a Railcard block very common

 

[redreni]

Is there any point if the ticket restrictions aren't going to be checked in any way?

No, none.

I find it maddening. I have to travel on CCSTs a lot in London at weekends because PAYG doesn't give me a Network Railcard discount so costs significantly more, and e-tickets aren't accepted on TfL even when valid.

I'm considering making the tentative switch to a TOC smartcard next football season (probably the GWR one) - I've been very sniffy about them since they were introduced because by all accounts they seemed very buggy when they were first launched, they still seem a bit buggy, and they're marketed and issued by TOCs who I absolutely do not trust to put things right should anything go wrong at their end, but as you say the friction you encounter when using paper tickets is getting worse all the time. TfL in particular seem to have got a lot worse at fixing the card slots on the barriers when they fail, presumably taking the view that as long as at least one of them is working that should be fine given most people don't use them.

Ideally I'd rather not do the TOC smartcard and make the switch from paper to e-tickets once TfL has sorted itself out and can accept them, or even better finds a way to link my Network Railcard discount to a contactless payment card, but I might die of old age at this rate before that happens.

 

[Haywain]

As they were accepted by LNER barriers at both ends, I suspect Thameslink had set the barriers to reject them, either because they were advances or because they were railcard-discounted.

From experience, I believe that Thameslink have Advance tickets set to be rejected. Railcard tickets are usually accepted, even Priv, so they are not blocked by default.

 

[Deerfold]

It'll be a Railcard block very common

And that's fine when they're checking railcards. When they're not and it's seriously impeding progress, why not turn it off?

From experience, I believe that Thameslink have Advance tickets set to be rejected. Railcard tickets are usually accepted, even Priv, so they are not blocked by default.

And if that's what's happening, why no need to see our reservations?

It just feels like a company which doesn't care about the customer experience at all - without even the excuse that it's for a good reason.

 

[Leisurefirst]

Had this at St. James Liverpool last weekend upon entry after buying the tickets seconds earlier from the ticket office as there were no machines anyway.
Go figure.

 

[redreni]

And that's fine when they're checking railcards. When they're not and it's seriously impeding progress, why not turn it off?



And if that's what's happening, why no need to see our reservations?

It just feels like a company which doesn't care about the customer experience at all - without even the excuse that it's for a good reason.

Who are they trying to catch out anyway?

I've used advances for intercity journeys with local or regional connections included on a through-ticket for years and the notion that the "booked train only" restriction might be enforced on local or even regional trains is really quite new. It's a really detrimental change because it used to be fine if, in London, you could make a significantly quicker connection onto the local train than what's on your itinerary (which you very often can), it never used to be a problem or even a source of vague anxiety. Now it is.

If the price penalty isn't too much, on a journey like this maybe consider splitting by buying a flexible Brighton to London Thameslink or London Underground Zone 1 and then advance Kings Cross to wherever you're going in Yorkshire?

 

[Deerfold]

If the price penalty isn't too much, on a journey like this maybe consider splitting by buying a flexible Brighton to London Thameslink or London Underground Zone 1 and then advance Kings Cross to wherever you're going in Yorkshire?

On a 1st class ticket the penalty is enormous to split in London, unfortunately. I travel to or via London regularly, but only change to Thameslink once or twice a year, typically.

 

[Watershed]

Who are they trying to catch out anyway?

I've used advances for intercity journeys with local or regional connections included on a through-ticket for years and the notion that the "booked train only" restriction might be enforced on local or even regional trains is really quite new. It's a really detrimental change because it used to be fine if, in London, you could make a significantly quicker connection onto the local train than what's on your itinerary (which you very often can), it never used to be a problem or even a source of vague anxiety. Now it is.

If the price penalty isn't too much, on a journey like this maybe consider splitting by buying a flexible Brighton to London Thameslink or London Underground Zone 1 and then advance Kings Cross to wherever you're going in Yorkshire?

GTR have a policy (albeit not published in any public facing materials) that those travelling on multi-TOC Advances can travel on any GTR service even if a reservation has been issued. Of course there are the usual exceptions and counter-exceptions but in this case it would allow travel on any connecting GTR service rather than forcing the use of the booked one.

 

[Deerfold]

I've used advances for intercity journeys with local or regional connections included on a through-ticket for years and the notion that the "booked train only" restriction might be enforced on local or even regional trains is really quite new. It's a really detrimental change because it used to be fine if, in London, you could make a significantly quicker connection onto the local train than what's on your itinerary (which you very often can), it never used to be a problem or even a source of vague anxiety. Now it is.

That is annoying. We like to catch an earlier train to Leeds. I usually end up booking from Leeds in advance and only booking my local train as I'm on the bus to the station rather than having to commit to a particular earlier connection - the standard single fare is low enough for that not to be too dangerous a gamble.

GTR have a policy (albeit not published in any public facing materials) that those travelling on multi-TOC Advances can travel on any GTR service even if a reservation has been issued. Of course there are the usual exceptions and counter-exceptions but in this case it would allow travel on any connecting GTR service rather than forcing the use of the booked one.

As LNER had a strike day and Thameslink were only running half the normal service from Brighton as normal before a landslide at Hassocks, we ended up travelling 4 hours earlier than the times on the CCST reservation on the return journey. Not that they were checked.

 

[redreni]

GTR have a policy (albeit not published in any public facing materials) that those travelling on multi-TOC Advances can travel on any GTR service even if a reservation has been issued. Of course there are the usual exceptions and counter-exceptions but in this case it would allow travel on any connecting GTR service rather than forcing the use of the booked one.

Ah. Good news!

Somebody should tell the staff at Bedford gateline who told me, when I arrived there from St Neots on a rail replacement bus as part of a journey from Scunthorpe to Slade Green on an advance single, that I had to wait for my booked train.

(The policy does seem to render a manual check of all advances at gatelines pointless, doesn't it? No point checking the reservation if the reservation doesn't matter. So no point doing a manual check.)

 

[James H]

It is incredibly customer-unfriendly.

If TOC MDs were forced to experience what it's like at first hand, they'd soon fix things.

 

[takno]

I had a recent trip from Yorkshire to Brighton. Travelling on LNER was relatively straightforward, even on the return on a strike day. However, all 4 Thameslink barriers rejected both my and my wife's tickets, saying "seek assistance".

As they were accepted by LNER barriers at both ends, I suspect Thameslink had set the barriers to reject them, either because they were advances or because they were railcard-discounted.

So, each time we had to make our over, along a busy gateline, with suitcases, to the one member of staff there, show our ticket and be let through. On none of the four occasions were we asked for our reservations or our railcard.

Is there any other reason than setting the barriers to do this that this is likely to have happened four times? Is there any point if the ticket restrictions aren't going to be checked in any way? There seemed to be a lot of people having similar problems at times when the barriers were very busy.

I'd have much preferred ticket checks on the trains - I doubt very much everyone in the fairly crowded 1st class section had a first class ticket.

I believe Southern and Thameslink always set the gates to reject all cross-London tickets. Certainly I've never had any success with LNER ones over the last 10 years or so. I believe somebody said in a previous thread that it was so that the tickets could be checked more thoroughly, but I've never had anybody on the gatelines more than glance at the tickets.

 

[Haywain]

I believe Southern and Thameslink always set the gates to reject all cross-London tickets.

That does not match my experience.

 

[takno]

That does not match my experience.

Possibly it wasn't all cross-London. Maybe just LNER or something like that. Either way I've not once successfully got through the gates at Victoria, London Bridge, St Pancras, or the eventual destination in South London. Entirely ordinary ticket with no railcard.

Tbh between that, the inability to get e-Tickets cross-London, and the lack of through availability on Lumo advances, I've completely given up on buying the through tickets - it's easier and sometimes cheaper to just use contactless to South London

 

[gray1404]

GTR have a policy (albeit not published in any public facing materials) that those travelling on multi-TOC Advances can travel on any GTR service even if a reservation has been issued. Of course there are the usual exceptions and counter-exceptions but in this case it would allow travel on any connecting GTR service rather than forcing the use of the booked one.

Very useful. Thank you. I'll take advantage of this next time.

 

[BRX]

I often (always??) have scotland to south london tickets rejected at TL gates. Usually the ones at St Pancras (where I'll usually have transferred over from an LNER service into KX) and then again at my local TL station, Loughborough Junction, which is the end destination on the ticket. It's quite annoying, especially if the next train is just about to leave St Pancras and you have to waste time waiting to get through the one manual gate while the attendant is dealing with something else.

 

[xotGD]

I was rejected by every Thameslink and Liz Line barrier on a recent trip from West Yorkshire to South East London. No Advances, no railcard.

And a shake of the head from the chap at Abbey Wood barrier just because I was starting short.

 

[Haywain]

I was rejected by every Thameslink and Liz Line barrier on a recent trip from West Yorkshire to South East London. No Advances, no railcard.

And a shake of the head from the chap at Abbey Wood barrier just because I was starting short.

That suggests the magnetic strip on the yicket was corrupted.

 

[D1537]

On the odd occasion that I commute to work via train (usually when the car is in for its MOT or similar, or there's a work social event involving alcohol!) I buy an Anytime day return from Coventry to The Hawthorns.

It is always accepted by the New Street barriers, and is always rejected by the Moor Street ones (in both directions).

 

[GerrardB]

No, none.

I find it maddening. I have to travel on CCSTs a lot in London at weekends because PAYG doesn't give me a Network Railcard discount so costs significantly more, and e-tickets aren't accepted on TfL even when valid.

I'm considering making the tentative switch to a TOC smartcard next football season (probably the GWR one) - I've been very sniffy about them since they were introduced because by all accounts they seemed very buggy when they were first launched, they still seem a bit buggy, and they're marketed and issued by TOCs who I absolutely do not trust to put things right should anything go wrong at their end, but as you say the friction you encounter when using paper tickets is getting worse all the time. TfL in particular seem to have got a lot worse at fixing the card slots on the barriers when they fail, presumably taking the view that as long as at least one of them is working that should be fine given most people don't use them.

Ideally I'd rather not do the TOC smartcard and make the switch from paper to e-tickets once TfL has sorted itself out and can accept them, or even better finds a way to link my Network Railcard discount to a contactless payment card, but I might die of old age at this rate before that happens.

If you show the Railcard to TFL staff at a station they can use the large ticket machine to apply the Railcard discount. Its odd as buses are then more expensive than tube outside zone 1!

 

[JonathanH]

If you show the Railcard to TFL staff at a station they can use the large ticket machine to apply the Railcard discount. Its odd as buses are then more expensive than tube outside zone 1!

Only if the railcard is valid for a discount, and only then on Oyster. The Network Railcard described in the post you responded to is not valid for this discount.

 

[Sonic1234]

I believe that Thameslink have Advance tickets set to be rejected.

Yes, this is GTR policy. Southern (but I assume it applies to the whole of GTR) confirmed this policy to me in a complaint I made about exactly this issue.

The rationale behind this is that they will manually check you are travelling/travelled on the right train. The reality often is you hold up everyone at the gates then just get waved through (possibly a casual glance to check you hold something orange) - or you have to use a help point, which there is a whole thread about.

I assume it's trying to ensure the cheap (less so now) Southern advances are used correctly, although Southern trains are staffed.