Settle to Carlisle route: could loco hauled stock be allocated?

[RobShipway]

Apologies for my Southerner interest, but can someone tell me why Northern continues to use both class 156 and class 158 trains on this route, yet for special events like the Tour De France can have locomotive pulled trains on this long distance inter regional route, but cannot put these type of trains on this route on a permanent basis?

The Mk3 stock and certainly if that is not the Mk2 stock is available to be placed on this route, so why has this not been done?

I would personally do the same as Chiltern have done with their loco hauled trains, with say a DVT, 1st class carriage and 4 standard class carriages and of course a class 67 or 68 for the locomotive power.

 

[DarloRich]

£££££££££££££ - The cost and the operational flexibility of units

 

[Deerfold]

To expand, the extra trains running over that weekend were hired in - they're not usually just sat about for Northern to use.

I used one of the additional trains between Halifax and Bradford that was rammed coming from Hebden Bridge - it was good that it could hold the huge number of extra passengers but it was massively late as the doors prevented people disembarking quickly.

 

[RobShipway]

£££££££££££££ - The cost and the operational flexibility of units

Okay, but surely that was the same issue before Chiltern introduced loco hauled services, who went ahead with using them anyway?

 

[HSTEd]

Chiltern actually had a business case for more stock.
The only stock available was loco hauled - ergo they used loco hauled.

Had more Turbostars been available that is what they would have used.

 

[yorksrob]

Apologies for my Southerner interest, but can someone tell me why Northern continues to use both class 156 and class 158 trains on this route, yet for special events like the Tour De France can have locomotive pulled trains on this long distance inter regional route, but cannot put these type of trains on this route on a permanent basis?

The Mk3 stock and certainly if that is not the Mk2 stock is available to be placed on this route, so why has this not been done?

I would personally do the same as Chiltern have done with their loco hauled trains, with say a DVT, 1st class carriage and 4 standard class carriages and of course a class 67 or 68 for the locomotive power.

Haven't seen a 156 on there for a while. Usually 158's strengthened by 153's (with the odd 150 on the "suburban" run to Ribblehead.

As for no loco hauled, with a Department of Transport which won't even countenance a summer Sunday service on the Cumbrian coast, spending money on loco hauled to improve the service on the Settle - Carlisle (even if it would release badly needed units for other routes) isn't likely IMO.

 

[Deerfold]

Haven't seen a 156 on there for a while. Usually 158's strengthened by 153's (with the odd 150 on the "suburban" run to Ribblehead.

As for no loco hauled, with a Department of Transport which won't even countenance a summer Sunday service on the Cumbrian coast, spending money on loco hauled to improve the service on the Settle - Carlisle (even if it would release badly needed units for other routes) isn't likely IMO.

There was a loco-hauled service running for a couple of years on the Settle-Carlisle. They ran the extra "fast" services at 0947 from Leeds and 1333 (now 1505). They finished in September 2004 - the extra services remained but were then run by DMUs.

I can't find many references to these services but there's one at http://uk.railway.narkive.com/z1B6csPP/leeds-settle-carlisle-question

I remember when they were introduced Metro had loads of publicity for the one extra train.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Haven't seen a 156 on there for a while. Usually 158's strengthened by 153's (with the odd 150 on the "suburban" run to Ribblehead.

I can only assume that the 156s mentioned by the OP would be the 'Lancashire Dalesrail' services running from Preston/Blackpool via Clitheroe.

 

[yorksrob]

I can only assume that the 156s mentioned by the OP would be the 'Lancashire Dalesrail' services running from Preston/Blackpool via Clitheroe.

Ah, now that may be it.

I haven't had the pleasure of using that service yet.

 

[NottsPhil]

I can only assume that the 156s mentioned by the OP would be the 'Lancashire Dalesrail' services running from Preston/Blackpool via Clitheroe.

Not necessarily - I used this service a couple of weeks ago from Preston and it was a 158/153 combo (and needed all 3 carriages).

 

[CockneySparrow]

To expand, the extra trains running over that weekend were hired in - they're not usually just sat about for Northern to use.

I used one of the additional trains between Halifax and Bradford that was rammed coming from Hebden Bridge - it was good that it could hold the huge number of extra passengers but it was massively late as the doors prevented people disembarking quickly.

The timings of loco hauled services will always be longer than DMUs and EMUs as you said the doors waste time at the stations also the pick up speed takes longer

Also they are heavier over the tracks which mean maintenance will be needed more often but that's one thing though not to mention them travelling over the viaduct
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Just one other note aside from the above should loco hauled services be used it would be less attractive to tourists (charter trains) as people will opt for the timetabled trains,

 

[yorksrob]

Just one other note aside from the above should loco hauled services be used it would be less attractive to tourists (charter trains) as people will opt for the timetabled trains,

I'm not sure though. The current service trains seem to get plenty of local leisure trippers as it is. I would assume the tours often bring people from further afield.

 

[chorleyjeff]

The timings of loco hauled services will always be longer than DMUs and EMUs as you said the doors waste time at the stations also the pick up speed takes longer

Also they are heavier over the tracks which mean maintenance will be needed more often but that's one thing though not to mention them travelling over the viaduct
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Just one other note aside from the above should loco hauled services be used it would be less attractive to tourists (charter trains) as people will opt for the timetabled trains,

I should think the mineral trains with 100 tonne wagons cause more wear.
Northern don't run charter trains so why would they wish to avoid making problems for charter operators if it would diapsadvantage Northern?
The loco hauled trains refered to above were, I think but probably wrong, four coaches with a class 37 on each end. They looked ridiculous.

 

[edwin_m]

There's an article in Modern Railways about the startup of Wrexham and Shropshire when they hired in charter Mk3s from Cargo-D. It notes that Cargo-D themselves suggested they would need more maintenance if used intensively over a long period, and that when the replacement stock was delayed there were many problems with the hired stock.

 

[55018ballymoss]

Currently the entire Leeds-Carlisle service is provided by class 158s sometimes coupled to a class 153.
Very occasionally a class 150 is provided, but these tend to work the Lancaster/Morecambe trains along with Pacer units (classes 142/144).
Even the Dales Rail is booked for a class 158/153 combination, which is possibly due to driver traction knowledge as there is a crew change at Hellifield in both directions.
When the Winter Dales Rail timetable starts in September the Blackpool North/Preston-Hellifield services are usually class 156 as they are then self contained diagrams which can be operated by one train crew.

As far as I am aware there are no plans to change any of the Leeds-Carlisle diagrams to become loco-hauled.

 

[Condor7]

The loco hauled trains refered to above were, I think but probably wrong, four coaches with a class 37 on each end. They looked ridiculous.

I am glad you said that, as I always thought the same.