Seven UK Trains Fail RSSB Seat Comfort Targets

[samuelmorris]

Yep - Adjustable height to fit user, getting them out of the way is different...

Yeah I'm fairly picky but that's really the sort of thing I'd only expect to see in first class.

 

[hwl]

Yeah I'm fairly picky but that's really the sort of thing I'd only expect to see in first class.

Exactly hence a lot of good std. seats will only be scoring 2-3 out of 5 on each items

 

[samuelmorris]

They are weighted though. Surely adjustable armrests weren't weighted that heavily?

 

[F Great Eastern]

Thing is though that seat comfort is fairly subjective so what one person might rate highly another person may not, so for that reason I'm not fond of such standards to be honest.

 

[hwl]

Thing is though that seat comfort is fairly subjective so what one person might rate highly another person may not, so for that reason I'm not fond of such standards to be honest.

Agreed most of it is about preventing the worst thinking being allowed (i.e. no leg room).

 

[hwl]

They are weighted though. Surely adjustable armrests weren't weighted that heavily?

To get a " 3" or "4" in one of the arm rest categories it needs to be adjustable height else 2 max in that category.
Arm rest width and padded top surfaces were the 2 other arm rest categories from memory.

All weighted but the expectation is that LU type seats would only have a low overall score as the target

 

[colleenmacleod]

.

2 of them are in the RSSB reception area...

I could probably have go.

Plenty of failures are probably around installation (seats too close together either airline or table/ insufficient, clearance under tables to get legs through e.g. IC70) rather than seats themselves.

With the scoring system they have laid out, no seats will score really highly as having adjustable height arms rests just isn't going to happen!

Hi there, I am trying to track down the Fainsa Sophia seats from the IEP class 800 trains. I am needing them for filming as we have already shot on a GWR train and I need direct continuity. I have tried numerous companies including Compin-Fainsa (they are on summer shut down) and Hitachi. GWR have said they don't have any spare so I have resorted to searching for prototypes and mock ups. I have managed to track down a mock up set but I need more. You mentioned '2 of them are in the RSSB reception area...', which ones were you referring to? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

[hwl]

Hi there, I am trying to track down the Fainsa Sophia seats from the IEP class 800 trains. I am needing them for filming as we have already shot on a GWR train and I need direct continuity. I have tried numerous companies including Compin-Fainsa (they are on summer shut down) and Hitachi. GWR have said they don't have any spare so I have resorted to searching for prototypes and mock ups. I have managed to track down a mock up set but I need more. You mentioned '2 of them are in the RSSB reception area...', which ones were you referring to? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Not Fainsa ones

 

[F Great Eastern]

Not Fainsa ones

They are
http://www.compin.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/COMPIN_REGIONAL_TRAINS.pdf

 

[hwl]

They are
http://www.compin.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/COMPIN_REGIONAL_TRAINS.pdf

The ones in the RSSB reception aren't made by Compin/Fainsa but one of their competitors...

 

[samuelmorris]

Hi there, I am trying to track down the Fainsa Sophia seats from the IEP class 800 trains. I am needing them for filming as we have already shot on a GWR train and I need direct continuity. I have tried numerous companies including Compin-Fainsa (they are on summer shut down) and Hitachi. GWR have said they don't have any spare so I have resorted to searching for prototypes and mock ups. I have managed to track down a mock up set but I need more. You mentioned '2 of them are in the RSSB reception area...', which ones were you referring to? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

I'd imagine you'd find it much easier just shooting on GWR again...

 

[Mikeboy]

Failed their targets they may have, but what actually can be done to enforce those targets? Are they binding in any way, and, if so, why and how have they been ignored so far? It sounds like a recommendation that is ripe for dismissal by TOCs.

To be fair I can imagine that it will be internally useful for any future government procured stock like the IEP order (HS2 is obviously the big one that's coming up) in arguing with the Treasury that an objective minimum standard must be met, which is much easier to do with quantifiable data than just "what feels right".

 

[hwl]

To be fair I can imagine that it will be internally useful for any future government procured stock like the IEP order (HS2 is obviously the big one that's coming up) in arguing with the Treasury that an objective minimum standard must be met, which is much easier to do with quantifiable data than just "what feels right".

Most in terms of the dimensions /angles stuff in the report is already covered by the HS2 rolling Stock tender to a medium but not high scoring level. (e.g. don't expect incredibly adjustable armrests...).
The tenders went in 2-3 months before the RSSB report was published

 

[Rhydgaled]

Has anyone worked out what the seat pitch would be to accomodate the various seat back angle and padding requirements, plus the legroom measurement?

I'd be interested to know if anybody can work out which seats they tested and what they fell down on. I can't even find a results page in any of those documents showing all 7 seats they tested, only the three regional examples.

Are you sitting comfortably
https://www.railengineer.co.uk/2019/07/08/are-you-sitting-comfortably/

Can't see anything about the trains they tested though

Could anyone provide the information of which seven trains were tested for this (I’m not buying That magazine)?

Not sure on the trains (or even if they tested trains, rather than just individual seats) but the "Testing and Validation Report" has a photograph of 7 rows of seats (most being pairs) in a room. I'm not an expert on seat identification, but I think the front one is the GWR (now ScotRail) IC125 mark 3 first class seat. One of the next two might be the Pendolino/Voyager seat (though I'm probably wrong on that), then (I think) the Thameslink class 700 seat and the rest I can't identify.

Failed their targets they may have, but what actually can be done to enforce those targets? Are they binding in any way, and, if so, why and how have they been ignored so far? It sounds like a recommendation that is ripe for dismissal by TOCs.

The recomendations include adding these seat criteria into the Rail Delivery Group's "Key Train Requirements" document. The latter started life as ATOC's "Key Technical Requirements For Rolling Stock", and sadly isn't strictly followed (for example coupler compatibility is in there and the class 195 window pillars exceed the desirable upper limit).