Severe disruption near Lancaster (27/07)

[Brooklands]

I’m currently on the 17.30 from Glasgow to Euston running 145 minutes late due to a points failure north of Lancaster. There will be hundreds of stranded passengers tonight I expect.
Chaotic scenes at Preston with a previous London train terminated and 100’s trying to cram on the following service.
Not Avanti’s fault of course but the Preston staff should have been more proactive.
What’s going wrong with line maintenance these days? The amount of infrastructure failures are appalling.

 

[Howardh]

My train from Windermere got delayed around 1930 but being at Preston managed to get an alternative to Bolton. An Avanti towards Glasgow was berthed at Preston around 2000, loaded with Hearts fans trying to get home!
A lot of delay repay on its way!

Edit - the Glasgow bound Avanti is currently just over 120 mins late, and the one to Edinburgh was cancelled.

 

[GordonT]

WCML severe disruption north of Preston is invariably worsened by a proportion of platforms at Preston being occupied by northbound trains awaiting delayed Scottish crews and thereby further delaying southbound trains once they eventually approach Preston and have to queue for a platform. The layout and lack of availability of a sufficient number of suitable staff at Preston to manage passenger needs appropriately in the aftermath of disruption, like taxes and the poor, are destined always to be with us.

 

[wilbers]

My train from Windermere got delayed around 1930 but being at Preston managed to get an alternative to Bolton. An Avanti towards Glasgow was berthed at Preston around 2000, loaded with Hearts fans trying to get home!
A lot of delay repay on its way!

Edit - the Glasgow bound Avanti is currently just over 120 mins late, and the one to Edinburgh was cancelled.

I was on that one (nothing to do with the football, but a day trip to Blackpool Pleasure Beach). I was supposed to be on the train after it which was the last one that would have got me home, and I hopped on that one after it had 30 minutes of its delay already happen. 73 minute delay against when the following train should have reached Penrith, though looking at RealTimeTrains it looks like that one and the Edinburgh never actually moved beyond Preston, though it doesn't look as that is entirely accurate since the Edinburgh shows 27 late into Preston and then cancelled, whereas it was sitting in platform 5 for ages, and think was still there when the 1941 finally left, and I think at that point the following train was still stuck behind just south of Preston; also by that point a Liverpool bound train had arrived and was cancelled blocking platform 6 (from what someone else said, think the Avanti train manager may have arrived on that one). A Northern train was also waiting in platform 4 for an extended time, and with platform 2 regularly filled (I briefly saw far too many trains there today) unusual for 5 of the 6 (not counting the southern bay platforms) to be occupied at the same time.

 

[Palmyra.]

The 17:30 from Glasgow to London has been cancelled at Crewe.

We were told to get on the Birmingham train which has been sat at the platform at Crewe for who knows how long now.

No announcements from any Avanti staff telling us how we will get from Birmingham to London

 

[Brooklands]

The 17.30 from Glasgow has now been terminated at Crewe. London passengers advised to board an awaiting Birmingham New Street service from where onward road transport will supposedly be arranged.
I suppose I might still get home for breakfast.

 

[wilbers]

The last Oxenholme->Windermere train of the day was deliberately held, and there seemed to be quite a few passengers heading that direction so someone in planning thinking ahead for that one at least.

 

[Howardh]

The 17.30 from Glasgow has now been terminated at Crewe. London passengers advised to board an awaiting Birmingham New Street service from where onward road transport will supposedly be arranged.
I suppose I might still get home for breakfast.

What time were you told to get the train to Birmingham, and were there no LNW's available?
Good luck, hope you get home soon!

 

[Palmyra.]

What time were you told to get the train to Birmingham, and were there no LNW's available?
Good luck, hope you get home soon!

23:30
Zero reason given as to why the train was just cancelled at Crewe

 

[Toby268]

What time were you told to get the train to Birmingham, and were there no LNW's available?
Good luck, hope you get home soon!

Service terminated at Crewe as no route forward down the Trent valley and into London due to critical engineering possessions. Too late to continue now with the late running. So no LNWRs either.

 

[Paul_10]

One strange thing I have noticed about this incident is if there is an issue, usually trains get stopped on platforms at like Oxenholme and Penrith etc but trains were allowed to carry on which meant there was a traffic jam of trains from just outside Lancaster all the way towards Hest Bank, what would the reasons for this be?

One theory I thought of is they want to clear the trains quicker than if only some were held in stations miles away so any engineering/maintenance works can be carried out(no idea if any is planned on that part of the line but services usually finish earlier on a Saturday for this reason) without any significant delays. Maybe also so train crew can get down to Preston? Either way, it's definitely not the norm when there is disruption like this.

 

[Toby268]

One strange thing I have noticed about this incident is if there is an issue, usually trains get stopped on platforms at like Oxenholme and Penrith etc but trains were allowed to carry on which meant there was a traffic jam of trains from just outside Lancaster all the way towards Hest Bank, what would the reasons for this be?

One theory I thought of is they want to clear the trains quicker than if only some were held in stations miles away so any engineering/maintenance works can be carried out(no idea if any is planned on that part of the line but services usually finish earlier on a Saturday for this reason) without any significant delays. Maybe also so train crew can get down to Preston? Either way, it's definitely not the norm when there is disruption like this.

I also was surprised at this. At first all services were platformed before they were released and sat in the worst congestion I’ve seen at Lancaster, even in similar circumstances over the years for over an hour. It’s a policy that this is to be avoided, especially in this weather and even more so on pendos because of just how poorly they are dealing with the summer weather this year (more so than previous years)

The only thing I can think of is that they thought it would not take as long for trains to clear the one signal that needed to be talked by on the up main into platform 4.

What was strange was that northbound services were occupying platform 3 for about 45 minutes ish a time as well despite the line being un affected.

So I’m wondering if they kept taking line blocks to investigate/ fix the issue in the hope they could get the points fully working again. Which did work in the end, just several hours later.

 

[GordonT]

What time were you told to get the train to Birmingham, and were there no LNW's available?
Good luck, hope you get home soon!

1M18 the 1730 ex Glasgow to Euston was terminated c.2308 at Crewe with pax transferred to 9M62 the 1852 ex Edinburgh to Birmingham which left Crewe 2339 (95L), currently showing an ETA in Birmingham of 0037.

 

[D1537]

Service terminated at Crewe as no route forward down the Trent valley and into London due to critical engineering possessions. Too late to continue now with the late running. So no LNWRs either.

Yet 9M60, only 25 minutes ahead of it and booked via Brum, looks to be running into Euston with no problems. 9M60 left Preston just 4 minutes before 1M18 arrived. I hope New Street is on the ball with those coaches...

 

[GordonT]

One strange thing I have noticed about this incident is if there is an issue, usually trains get stopped on platforms at like Oxenholme and Penrith etc but trains were allowed to carry on which meant there was a traffic jam of trains from just outside Lancaster all the way towards Hest Bank, what would the reasons for this be?

Maybe it was a reaction to being desperate to get the delayed London trains onwards from Crewe before the possession kicked in and hadn't reckoned on the extent that trains would be further delayed on entering Preston.

 

[Toby268]

Yet 9M60, only 25 minutes ahead of it and booked via Brum, looks to be running into Euston with no problems. 9M60 left Preston just 4 minutes before 1M18 arrived. I hope New Street is on the ball with those coaches...

It’s not. It’s terminating at Watford junction.

 

[Palmyra.]

They have one coach for hundreds of passengers many passengers left abandoned on the streets no sign of any Avanti staff

 

[D1537]

It’s not. It’s terminating at Watford junction.

Indeed. A lot better than Brum though! I presume there were crewing reasons why something similar couldn't be done with 1M18.

 

[Palmyra.]

Avanti left customers on the streets of Birmingham until 2am

Passengers had to go en mass as a large group with the help of the local taxi drivers to demand that we get taxis as a coach did not arrive.

There was not a single member of Avanti staff at the station to help and they dumped the problem on network rail who were just as unhelpful

The taxi drivers advised us that we would have been left out on the streets all night if it wasn’t for the fact that we went as a collective to demand action.

The fact Avanti are able to get away with this criminal behaviour is completely horrendous.

 

[Brooklands]

What time were you told to get the train to Birmingham, and were there no LNW's available?
Good luck, hope you get home soon!

We were told after the train was terminated. Arrived at New Street about 00.30.No more trains south then.
One coach was waiting outside TK MAX though most of course didn’t know where that was and no staff were there to assist people.
The coach was soon full and left. A Network Rail guy said there was another on the way. After about an hour on the pavement waiting with about 60 others people got fed up and a taxi driver guided us to the station reception. It was only then they decided to organise taxi‘s.
I’m sat in one now at 02.15 heading for Euston. I was right about breakfast unfortunately!! Thanks for your good wishes.

We were told after the train was terminated. Arrived at New Street about 00.30.No more trains south then.
One coach was waiting outside TK MAX though most of course didn’t know where that was and no staff were there to assist people.
The coach was soon full and left. A Network Rail guy said there was another on the way. After about an hour on the pavement waiting with about 60 others people got fed up and a taxi driver guided us to the station reception. It was only then they decided to organise taxi‘s.
I’m sat in one now at 02.15 heading for Euston. I was right about breakfast unfortunately!! Thanks for your good wishes.

The taxi arrived at Euston at 04.30 and now onto the night tube to Waterloo to catch the first train home!

 

[Palmyra.]

I also wanted to note that there were many elderly people some with mobility issues who were just left out on the street and not given the option to sit in the station as it was closed.

some of the young people who got on the first coach behaved appallingly too barging to do the door while said elderly people were left at the back. Everyone for themselves and no sign of respect.

Questions really need to be asked on how this was allowed to happen and Avanti need to be held accountable.

I understand they have also abandoned customers at Watford junction too with no onward transport

Update there are now hundreds of people stranded at Euston station at 4:50am

No taxis, no Ubers
Available, no underground, station isn’t opened

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Service terminated at Crewe as no route forward down the Trent valley and into London due to critical engineering possessions. Too late to continue now with the late running. So no LNWRs either.

What about the route via Birmingham?

 

[DynamicSpirit]

It occurs to me that, if this was an accident, then the RAIB would investigate, figure out what the causes are, and make recommendations to change future working practices etc. to try to prevent the situation from reoccurring.

From the description in this thread, it sounds like massive disruption was caused to a huge number of people, and some may have been put in danger, to an extent that seems totally out of proportion to the original fault (a points failure) that caused the incident.

But I'm guessing that because there wasn't an identifiable accident that directly resulted in an injury or death, no-one is going to investigate or make any recommendations for how the railway could better respond to this kind of situation in the future. Maybe that's what needs to change?

 

[Deafdoggie]

It flummoxes me how people attempt to defend this sort of thing. It's utterly appalling and put people in direct physical danger (due to the crime issues in large cities at night).

Sadly, just like the Euston scrum, someone has to die before the railway consider it a safety issue. Being proactive instead of reactive isn't something they do.

 

[alistairlees]

Customers abandoned in the middle of the night; engineering works taking priority. It does seem that a relatively minor issue (points failure at Lancaster) has escalated into an issue way out of proportion here.

 

[Mag_seven]

Customers abandoned in the middle of the night;

Are there no "duty of care" procedures in place for trains that have to terminate short of their destination late in the evening or early in the morning?

 

[dk1]

Are there no "duty of care" procedures in place for trains that have to terminate short of their destination late in the evening or early in the morning?

Only if pre-planned.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Only if pre-planned.

There's no on call duty manager? Seems a basic need to me.

 

[dk1]

There's no on call duty manager? Seems a basic need to me.

Of course there is an on-call manager but they can’t be everywhere for every eventuality.

They also cannot procure anymore taxis, buses or alternative crew than control can.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Of course there is an on-call manager but they can’t be everywhere for every eventuality.

They also cannot procure anymore taxis, buses or alternative crew than control can.

They can however ensure effective communication.