Sheffield Booking Office

[Llandudno]

I recently tried to purchase a TfGM Wayfarer ticket from Sheffield Station, having already purchased a valid day return ticket to Grindleford, the first station within Wayfarer validity. The booking clerk informed me that he was no longer allowed to issue a GM Wayfarer, I said that I have the code number for issuing Wayfarer’s - he said ‘I also know the code but I can’t sell you a ticket!’ You will have to pay on the train!

He also informed me that he couldn’t sell Derbyshire Wayfarer tickets either, even though they are valid in Sheffield, he suggested I bought one at Sheffield TIC.

Haven’t the guards got enough to do with all the unstaffed stations, surely the more tickets issued before travel the better!

Incidentally, the guard on the Hope Valley stopper was very understanding and issued the Wayfarer without question.

Just, as an aside could I gave travelled on a non-stop Manchester-Sheffield train using a Wayfarer between Sheffield and Grindleford and either a pre-purchased Wayfarer (assuming someone was willing to sell me one!) or could I have bought a Wayfarer on the fast train even though it is not scheduled to stop at Grindleford?

 

[sheff1]

Ah ... Sheffield booking office.

And we still get people on here saying you should always buy tickets from a booking office as you will get good service and advice there !

 

[Starmill]

If a ticket office gives you authorisation to buy onboard, then fair enough. I would just take it and do so! If you were refused sale and not given authorisation to buy onboard, then that is when I would be getting concerned - Penalty Fares apply from Sheffield, although this could only be relevant here if you joined an East Midlands Trains service.

There is no reason why you need to be on a train that calls at Grindleford.

 

[_toommm_]

I've had it happen before with them refusing to sell a Cheshire Day Ranger. I asked the EMT guard before I boarded, kindly reminded him that if you can't buy it on board, the National Rail Conditions of Travel say you can buy onboard, but to no avail! It really is farsical at best

 

[dave87016]

So the rules state that pax MUST buy before you board where there is a ticket office and/or ticket machine , failure to do is a criminal offence so the Derbyshire Wayfarer is valid to /from Sheffield and the booking office clerk advises a passenger to buy the ticket on the train

What if the guard was a jobsworth and issued the passenger a penalty fare or notice ?

 

[Merseysider]

What if the guard was a jobsworth and issued the passenger a penalty fare or notice?

Then it would be an invalid Penalty Fare and the passenger should successfully appeal.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Ah ... Sheffield booking office.

And we still get people on here saying you should always buy tickets from a booking office as you will get good service and advice there !

This appears that it is to do with TOC policy/ Funding of the Rover not the general principle of Booking Offices v Internet.

The Wayfarer seems to be a product heavily promoted and perhaps part funded from Derbyshire CC - I don't know about the mechanism of it but I suspect it has something to do with the fact that Sheffield is in South Yorkshire not Derbyshire and some Local Government Auditor has picked up on it. The Local Authority boundary is after all a boundary and discounted travel part funded from Derbyshire CC must only be available if bought in Derbyshire.

 

[Harpers Tate]

Why should any genuinely innocent person ever be placed into such a position?

 

[rg177]

I've only ever had helpful service at Sheffield (even the Northern weekend ticket was issued without a moan) which makes me think that, like we had in East Coast days at Newcastle station, there's a couple of unhelpful rogues in the bunch.

That said, I haven't yet asked them for anything that isn't valid from Sheffield so I expect i'll probably have some fun once I need to do that!

 

[Gareth Marston]

Why should any genuinely innocent person ever be placed into such a position?

Railway Rules (complex enough the average punter) meet Local Government rules = not a happy mix and a very well intentioned scheme is blunted. Hopefully others will know but as soon as I googled Derbyshire Wayfarer and got Derbyshire CC website the alarm bells rung - In a previous life I audited European Structural Funds projects and dealt with Local Authority's. This sort of thing is the norm.

 

[Gareth Marston]

I've only ever had helpful service at Sheffield (even the Northern weekend ticket was issued without a moan) which makes me think that, like we had in East Coast days at Newcastle station, there's a couple of unhelpful rogues in the bunch.

That said, I haven't yet asked them for anything that isn't valid from Sheffield so I expect i'll probably have some fun once I need to do that!

My hunch is that it is an instruction not to sell the Wayfarer outside of Derbyshire nothing to do with "rogue unhelpful staff" or the like.

Ironically I can sell them off the STAR machine here in Newtown and not had any instruction not to sell them, not that anybody has ever asked for one mind.

 

[mailbyrail]

But this contradicts everything on the Derbyshire CC website which says tickets cannot be sold on board trains but are available at Sheffield ticket office..............

These railway station ticket offices sell Derbyshire Wayfarer tickets on the day of travel:
Alfreton, Burton-on-Trent, Buxton, Chesterfield, Derby, Long Eaton, New Mills - only open on Mondays to Fridays, until 1pm, Newtown - only open on Mondays to Fridays, until 1pm

• Sheffield.

Nottingham and Beeston stations sell special Derbyshire Wayfarer tickets which also include rail travel from those stations to Long Eaton or Langley Mill. These tickets are priced at £17 (adult) and £8.50 (concessionary). Group tickets are not available from these stations.

Derbyshire Wayfarer tickets cannot be purchased on board trains, at unstaffed stations, or from station ticket machines.

 

[eastdyke]

Good discussion about the Derbyshire Wayfarer, a ticket that I use myself after buying at Nottingham.
But the original post was not about the declined sale of a Derbyshire Wayfarer!
First line of OP:

I recently tried to purchase a TfGM Wayfarer ticket from Sheffield Station

The ticket is in Special Offers A-Z, not Rovers and Rangers:
Greater Manchester and surrounding areas - Wayfarer
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/prd6401efbea4da8a529e880b352b5d4.aspx

Buying your tickets
You can buy Wayfarer tickets from staffed railway stations and PayPoint outlets in the area of validity.

The ticket is definitely not valid at Sheffield and so it would seem that the actions of TO staff were not totally unreasonable.

 

[Gareth Marston]

TFGm Wayfarer - its the same set up in that its a Local Authority product that's apparently not being sold in a different Local Authority area. It all boils down revenue allocation / funding/ third party issues.

 

[Harpers Tate]

Perhaps what the Railway needs to introduce is either
(a) a "could not/would not sell requested ticket" coupon to be issued free to any customer who is refused for any reason whatsoever, as irrefutable evidence that they made the attempt (for presentation to, for example, a train conductor, or during a claim for reimbursement for excess fares, etc.)
or, better still
(b) a "we are all franchised parts of the National Railway" policy.
I don't for one minute believe the suggestion that (especially as regards the Derbyshire ticket, which IS valid at Sheffield; probably the GMPTE one, and for all it matters any other ticket for use anywhere on the network) this is anything more than ill informed and/or difficult staff.
The Revenue Allocation aspect doesn't bear scrutiny. If you can buy a Wayfarer ticket at EMT operated Derby, and the revenue is properly allocated, why would that represent anything different to buying it at EMT operated Sheffield?
This all sounds like a case of "we've always been told...." rather than fact.

 

[Bletchleyite]

(a) is basically "an Authorised Person must only give permission to board a train without a valid ticket in writing, and such permission must be accepted without question from the passenger's point of view, with any irregularity dealt with internally as a staff discipline / cross-TOC billing matter", which I have proposed elsewhere and would equally apply to that situation as to any other.

 

[sheff1]

Derbyshire Wayfarers have been sold in Sheffield throughout the 30 years I have lived there.

They can also, according to the website, be bought in various towns in Staffordshire and on local buses where the tickets are valid (which includes parts of Staffordshire & South Yorkshire).

The suggestion that discounted tickets should only be sold in the Derbyshire County Council area seems frankly bizarre - especially as the City of Derby is outwith the County Council area of control.

 

[eastdyke]

Derbyshire Wayfarers have been sold in Sheffield throughout the 30 years I have lived there.
They can also, according to the website, be bought in various towns in Staffordshire and on local buses where the tickets are valid (which includes parts of Staffordshire & South Yorkshire).
The suggestion that discounted tickets should only be sold in the Derbyshire County Council area seems frankly bizarre - especially as the City of Derby is outwith the County Council area of control.

I too have bought the Derbyshire Wayfarer at Sheffield, last time about 18 months ago.
I am aware of a restriction which only allows them to be sold on the day of validity (when bought at a Railway TO).

 

[Starmill]

As far as I am aware EMT guards do not issue Penalty Fares.

One would not stand in a case where the customer was given permission to buy onboard by the ticket office staff regardless.

 

[mailbyrail]

But the original post by says that not only could Llandudno buy the TfGM ticket, he was also told that the Derbyshire Wayfarer could not be sold and had to be purchased at the TIC

 

[eastdyke]

But the original post by says that not only could Llandudno buy the TfGM ticket, he was also told that the Derbyshire Wayfarer could not be sold and had to be purchased at the TIC

Which would heve been correct if the Derbyshire Wayfarer was not for use that day.

 

[ag51ruk]

As far as I am aware EMT guards do not issue Penalty Fares.

One would not stand in a case where the customer was given permission to buy onboard by the ticket office staff regardless.

Guards cannot, but EMT RPIs can issue Penalty Fares and Sheffield - Chesterfield is one of the routes they concentrate on due to the lack of ticket gates at either end

 

[kevconnor]

Sheffield station can be a funny one and always has been.

When I lived there I would go to the station for sail rail tickets to Ireland, this was before internet sales had really been established. I used to go at off peak times when the queues were less but was met with sighing and rolling of eyes as though having the temerity to queue up at an advanced sales booth and ask for an advanced purchase ticket was an inconvenience to them.

 

[sheff1]

Sheffield station can be a funny one and always has been.

When I lived there I would go to the station for sail rail tickets to Ireland, this was before internet sales had really been established. I used to go at off peak times when the queues were less but was met with sighing and rolling of eyes as though having the temerity to queue up at an advanced sales booth and ask for an advanced purchase ticket was an inconvenience to them.

That brings back memories. Prior to moving to Sheffield I had booked tickets to Ireland at Birmingham New St without any problems at all. At Sheffield most such bookings involved involved much huffing and puffing and on one memorable occasion the classic comment "You can't go to Dublin for the day" - looking back, it was a wonder I was actually sold a ticket at all !

 

[MG11]

I am normally on the side of the TOC but not in this case. Ok, so Wayfarers cannot be bought in advance but if the OP could have proved to the Travel Advisor (ticket seller) that they had a ticket to cover their jourmey between Sheffield and Grindleford, and wanted the TFGM Wayfarer for that day, then I see no reason why it shouldn't be sold. As for a Derbyshire Wayfarer refusing to be sold then that really is shocking, providing there was nothing to suggest the customer was attempting to use it outside of validity. We know TOCs don't like customers using Ranger tickets, but if you are travelling to various places and want to explore with an essence of spontinaity, then they Rangers really come in handy for saving time to queue up at each and every station. As for advising the OP to buy on board, well that is silly really, buy before you board should always be the way to go, I know if the OP started their journey at Grindleford, they would have no choice but to buy on board but the NRCOC says passemgers should buy all of their tickets before they begin their journey, which I would presume applies in this situation. If I was the OP, I would politely complain to East Midlands Trains, then if that complaint fell on deaf ears, I would go to Passenger Focus. The complaint is unlikely to get anywhere but it is worth a try, if only on principle.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Has anybody contacted Derbyshire CC or EMT to find out exactly why? Or is this a little too obvious and would spoil the endless speculation?

Its neither here or there to me personally as I'm not local just something on web forum I use I suggest someone more local makes an issue of it with the TOC and Council.

 

[Clip]

I am normally on the side of the TOC but not in this case. Ok, so Wayfarers cannot be bought in advance but if the OP could have proved to the Travel Advisor (ticket seller) that they had a ticket to cover their jourmey between Sheffield and Grindleford, and wanted the TFGM Wayfarer for that day, then I see no reason why it shouldn't be sold..

You may have missed post #13 which states that the one for TfGM cant be sold outside the area.

I find it pretty silly myself but if that's a restriction then that's the restriction.

 

[MG11]

You may have missed post #13 which states that the one for TfGM cant be sold outside the area.

I find it pretty silly myself but if that's a restriction then that's the restriction.

That's fair enough then but that doesn't excuse the Derbyshire Wayfarer not being sold from Sheffield, Sheffield - Chesterfield, Derby, Long Eaton are valid journeys using the Derbyshire Wayfarer.

 

[janb]

You may have missed post #13 which states that the one for TfGM cant be sold outside the area.

I find it pretty silly myself but if that's a restriction then that's the restriction.

I think that info maybe dates from when it was the scratchcard format. Now that they are a regular ticket they can be issued anywhere competent. The internal national rail makes no distinction, and neither does tfgm https://www.tfgm.com/tickets-and-passes/wayfarer-adult

 

[lyndhurst25]

I have, in the past year, bought without any problems-

1) At Leeds - a Derbyshire Wayfarer, bought a few days in advance, issued on normal ticket stock.
2) At Sheffield - a Derbyshire Wayfarer, bought on the day of travel, issued on normal ticket stock with the ticket then sealed inside an adhesive sleeve.

Maybe it just depends on which ticket clerk you get?