Sheffield Supertram & Tram Train news

[tbtc]

I'm surprised the Purple Line only sees an hourly service, is this a COVID legacy or is there just not enough demand to Herdings to justify even half-hourly/20 minute frequency?

It was half hourly pre-Covid, but it was every twelve minutes with through trams to Hillsborough* in the early days of Supertram (when Meadowhall was just a shuttle to the city centre)

My take on the branch is that it’s a problematic stub (like Malin Bridge) which should either have been built properly (to a P&R near Meadowhead in the case of Herdings Park, Stannington in the case of Malin Bridge) or not at all

Herdings Park has traditionally been a frequent bus terminus (47/48 for many years, now the 1A/ 11), suggesting demand, but the bus routes serve the various flats along the Gleadless Valley which the tram doesn’t (it approaches the valley from a different direction) - but the kind of route where a twelve minute tram might work yet an hourly one won’t (since a frequent tram would be enough to attract the bus passengers but they won’t wait about for an hourly tram when the buses are much more often even post-Covid)

*- I can’t remember whether it was to Malin Bridge or Middlewood beyond there, it’s going back a while

 

[johnnychips]

Thanks for the answers about the wooden things between the rails

 

[Harpers Tate]

I think the original concept behind the Herdings "branch" was to offer a turnround for "short" workings on the predicted basis that the main demand flows in that general direction would tail off markedly before Gleadless Townend (where the junction is). Thus allowing a frequent service between the city and Gleadless, with half of services going the rest of the way to Halfway (and the balance turning short at Herdings Park). The market did not respond as predicted and so frequency to Halfway was increased, alongside a decrease to Herdings, which trips were curtailed to a shuttle between there and Catherdal. There were from time to time different patterns on Sundays with some services (again, the Herdings ones IIRC) operating direct to Meadowhall via the curve between the Station and Hyde Park i.e. skipping the city centre stops. And variations from time to time. Herdings was indeed half-hourly immediately pre-covid.

 

[edwin_m]

Weren't there some tower blocks at Herdings at the time Supertram was planned, that had been demolished by the time it opened? There was an article by the late Peter Fox in a publication "Light Rail Review" about 1997 (not at home so can't check my copy) which cited this as one of the reasons Supertram hadn't initially been successful.

 

[ricoblade]

It was half hourly pre-Covid, but it was every twelve minutes with through trams to Hillsborough* in the early days of Supertram (when Meadowhall was just a shuttle to the city centre)

My take on the branch is that it’s a problematic stub (like Malin Bridge) which should either have been built properly (to a P&R near Meadowhead in the case of Herdings Park, Stannington in the case of Malin Bridge) or not at all

Herdings Park has traditionally been a frequent bus terminus (47/48 for many years, now the 1A/ 11), suggesting demand, but the bus routes serve the various flats along the Gleadless Valley which the tram doesn’t (it approaches the valley from a different direction) - but the kind of route where a twelve minute tram might work yet an hourly one won’t (since a frequent tram would be enough to attract the bus passengers but they won’t wait about for an hourly tram when the buses are much more often even post-Covid)

*- I can’t remember whether it was to Malin Bridge or Middlewood beyond there, it’s going back a while

Malin Bridge is very useful to me as it is a good trailhead for Loxley and Rivelin Valley walks.

I had to do the extra walk down to Hillsborough Corner last week though as I missed the tram by 30 seconds or so and, as per other posts, there is no Real Time Trams information so you have no idea how long you'd have to wait.

I agree about the extensions you mention and again, as in other posts, I'd like to see the Mayor at least come up with some plans, and of course my favourite the Sheaf Valley route.

 

[TC60054]

The Herdings branch was half-hourly up until November 2021 I think it was - the frequency was reduced to hourly at the same time all evening services were reduced to half hourly to cope with a staff shortage - the reduction of the purple service and the evening service meant that the frequency was able to increase on the blue route back to the usual every 12 minutes. I suspect the timetables introduced as temporary then will be permanent moving forwards on the basis we haven't heard anything of the restoration of the pre-covid timetable (which did survive post-covid for a few months before staff shortages bit)

 

[stuartl]

Weren't there some tower blocks at Herdings at the time Supertram was planned, that had been demolished by the time it opened? There was an article by the late Peter Fox in a publication "Light Rail Review" about 1997 (not at home so can't check my copy) which cited this as one of the reasons Supertram hadn't initially been successful.

I don't know about herdings but there were the Kelvin tower blocks on Infirmary road which were demolished around the time supertram started. This is sometimes said to be why it wasn't used as much, as during the planning stages it was thought that the people in those blocks would be large users.

 

[Nean]

The other irony of the Purple route being that with the current timetable they're almost always flighted perfectly behind the Blues. Everyone following the addage "always get the first bus that turns up" gets on the Blue (causing them to be absolutely rammed during the peaks) and the purple follows behind carting fresh air- to the point where the purple is literally right behind the blue due to not having to stop to allow alighting.

With a bit better timetabling (though not sure how you'd do it at Cathedral at the moment) the Purple could mop up more of the inner city demand from Townend-Cathedral letting the longer distance punters have a nicer ride, the shorter distance punters actually get a seat, and the conductor could actually walk down the Blue and collect fares in the morning!

 

[JD2168]

I think the original concept behind the Herdings "branch" was to offer a turnround for "short" workings on the predicted basis that the main demand flows in that general direction would tail off markedly before Gleadless Townend (where the junction is). Thus allowing a frequent service between the city and Gleadless, with half of services going the rest of the way to Halfway (and the balance turning short at Herdings Park). The market did not respond as predicted and so frequency to Halfway was increased, alongside a decrease to Herdings, which trips were curtailed to a shuttle between there and Catherdal. There were from time to time different patterns on Sundays with some services (again, the Herdings ones IIRC) operating direct to Meadowhall via the curve between the Station and Hyde Park i.e. skipping the city centre stops. And variations from time to time. Herdings was indeed half-hourly immediately pre-covid.

The Herdings to Gleadless section replaced the 51 bus service which was rerouted to Charnock instead. Daytime journeys on Purples Monday to Saturday used to run to Meadowhall via Cathedral, those paths mostly replaced by Tram Train which caused Purples to terminate at Cathedral. The Purple still runs every 30 minutes on Sunday to give 5 Trams per hour with Blue between City Centre & Gleadless.

 

[edwin_m]

I don't know about herdings but there were the Kelvin tower blocks on Infirmary road which were demolished around the time supertram started. This is sometimes said to be why it wasn't used as much, as during the planning stages it was thought that the people in those blocks would be large users.

The article I mentioned did also talk about other tower blocks elsewhere, I think it was those ones but as I say I don't have access to it at present.

 

[ricoblade]

Following the Tyne and Wear Metro thread on lack of services after concerts, the hometown(ish) Arctic Monkeys played Sheffield's Hillsborough Park on Friay/Saturday.

My daughter went on the Friday with her mates and happily got a tram out fom Midland.

They were planning on getting one back towards town and I'd pick them up there but the official guidance was that it would take 60-90 minues to get a tram afer the event so I drove as close as I could and queued.

Anedotedy there was a distinct lack of trams after the event and a lot of people just walked (no bad thing!) and I noticed trams stacked up at the bottom of Netherthorpe Road an hour or so after the event finished.

When I went to an event at the Arena a couple of years ago, there were trams stacked up to take people back into town and the queue went down fairly quickly.

No idea what happened here or why they gave the wait times they did, maybe to make people walk?

 

[duncanp]

Following the Tyne and Wear Metro thread on lack of services after concerts, the hometown(ish) Arctic Monkeys played Sheffield's Hillsborough Park on Friay/Saturday.

My daughter went on the Friday with her mates and happily got a tram out fom Midland.

They were planning on getting one back towards town and I'd pick them up there but the official guidance was that it would take 60-90 minues to get a tram afer the event so I drove as close as I could and queued.

Anedotedy there was a distinct lack of trams after the event and a lot of people just walked (no bad thing!) and I noticed trams stacked up at the bottom of Netherthorpe Road an hour or so after the event finished.

When I went to an event at the Arena a couple of years ago, there were trams stacked up to take people back into town and the queue went down fairly quickly.

No idea what happened here or why they gave the wait times they did, maybe to make people walk?

What happens when there is football on at Hillsborough?

Is there some kind of queuing system?

 

[ALEMASTER]

Following the Tyne and Wear Metro thread on lack of services after concerts, the hometown(ish) Arctic Monkeys played Sheffield's Hillsborough Park on Friay/Saturday.

My daughter went on the Friday with her mates and happily got a tram out fom Midland.

They were planning on getting one back towards town and I'd pick them up there but the official guidance was that it would take 60-90 minues to get a tram afer the event so I drove as close as I could and queued.

Anedotedy there was a distinct lack of trams after the event and a lot of people just walked (no bad thing!) and I noticed trams stacked up at the bottom of Netherthorpe Road an hour or so after the event finished.

When I went to an event at the Arena a couple of years ago, there were trams stacked up to take people back into town and the queue went down fairly quickly.

No idea what happened here or why they gave the wait times they did, maybe to make people walk?

Difference is at the Arena/Don Valley Bowl the tram runs on segregated railway and the stop is purpose built to handle events crowds, as are the venues.

Hillsborough Park is, well, a park, not designed as an events venue and trams run on street. The road was closed after the event for an hour whilst 40,000 people dispersed by walking down the road the trams run on. Trams ran the event service once the road was reopened but that was around 2315.

This post by a micropub located at Hillsborough Park tram stop illustrates well... https://m.facebook.com/story.php?st...3zTbwPE2rNQl&id=100064119161384&sfnsn=scwspmo

To be fair the tram service operated as advertised - normal service before the event then pause in service due to road closure at the end of the event followed by additional trams running from Leppings Lane to the City Centre with a dedicated tram exit from the site that had a queuing system and ticket checks. Unfortunately the road closure lasted longer than anticipated but passengers had been advised of waits of 60-90 minutes and everyone would have been away within 90 minutes.

 

[JD2168]

There was some disruption to the network around Hyde Park this morning as an unidentified Tram failed whilst in service.

 

[ricoblade]

There wa a ****ter poll this week (I know) put out by The Stir asking "Do you want to see the tram network expanded?".

Interestingly the Mayor himsen responded "yes", which gives me a bit of hope but of course there is no plan or further detail.

 

[ALEMASTER]

There wa a ****ter poll this week (I know) put out by The Stir asking "Do you want to see the tram network expanded?".

Interestingly the Mayor himsen responded "yes", which gives me a bit of hope but of course there is no plan or further detail.

The focus for now will be renewing the existing network.

There was a planned expansion of a tram-train network published some time ago, however much of that was linked to a combination of HS2 coming to Sheffield which isn't happening anymore and a station opening at the now closed Doncaster-Sheffield Airport. (You can download the South Yorkshire integrated rail plan from https://southyorkshire-ca.gov.uk/Explore_Transport). So what the intensions are now are unclear - I imagine running out to Stocksbridge on the existing freight line may be a contender, likewise extending the existing TT service beyond Parkgate to Swinton and beyond (Wath on Dearne, Wakefield or Doncaster perhaps?). There is also potential running out towards Waverley.

As for expanding the classic tram network, possibly extending beyond Herdings Park to Norton, beyond Halfway to Killamarsh, beyond Malin Bridge to Wisewood or Stannington. Possibly a loop from University to Broomhill taking in the hospitals? I think a lesson certainly learned through is that any new line needs to be on separate reserved track rather than on street, otherwise you may as well just run a bus if the tram is going to be stuck in traffic and unattractive.

 

[D365]

It always strikes me as a crying shame that the Supertram never made it to Ranmoor/Fulwood, given that the 120 route (which effectively parallels the Blue tram to Halfway) sees two buses every ten minutes!

 

[TreacleMiller]

The focus for now will be renewing the existing network.

There was a planned expansion of a tram-train network published some time ago, however much of that was linked to a combination of HS2 coming to Sheffield which isn't happening anymore and a station opening at the now closed Doncaster-Sheffield Airport. (You can download the South Yorkshire integrated rail plan from https://southyorkshire-ca.gov.uk/Explore_Transport). So what the intensions are now are unclear - I imagine running out to Stocksbridge on the existing freight line may be a contender, likewise extending the existing TT service beyond Parkgate to Swinton and beyond (Wath on Dearne, Wakefield or Doncaster perhaps?). There is also potential running out towards Waverley.

As for expanding the classic tram network, possibly extending beyond Herdings Park to Norton, beyond Halfway to Killamarsh, beyond Malin Bridge to Wisewood or Stannington. Possibly a loop from University to Broomhill taking in the hospitals? I think a lesson certainly learned through is that any new line needs to be on separate reserved track rather than on street, otherwise you may as well just run a bus if the tram is going to be stuck in traffic and unattractive.

Developers at Waverley as well as the land owner wants a new railway station building on the nearby line.

I was in a meeting about 6/7 years ago where several local business heads asked for the tram network extension via the old lines down by the Tinsley yards and we're told that neither Sheffield nor Rotherham council wanted to do it.

 

[JD2168]

There will be a series of rail - replacement works from 24th July until 6th August causing no Trams from Shalesmoor to Middlewood/Malin Bridge. This will be done in sections split up as Middlewood Road, Hillsborough, Infirmary Road & Shalesmoor. During these works the BLUE route will run between Shalesmoor & Halfway at all times with slight changes to the times. The YELLOW route will run between Shalesmoor & Meadowhall, early morning, evening & all day Sunday. On Monday to Saturday daytime Trams will run from Cathedral to Meadowhall only. The PURPLE & TRAM - TRAIN services will be unaffected.

There will be a BY1 replacement Bus service running between Shalesmoor & Middlewood via Hillsborough (no replacement to Malin Bridge), unsure who the operator will be but frequencies are every 12 minutes Monday to Sunday daytime & every 15 minutes in the evenings.

Essential Rail Replacement works 24 July to 6 August

www.stagecoachbus.com

 

[ALEMASTER]

There will be a series of rail - replacement works from 24th July until 6th August causing no Trams from Shalesmoor to Middlewood/Malin Bridge. This will be done in sections split up as Middlewood Road, Hillsborough, Infirmary Road & Shalesmoor. During these works the BLUE route will run between Shalesmoor & Halfway at all times with slight changes to the times. The YELLOW route will run between Shalesmoor & Meadowhall, early morning, evening & all day Sunday. On Monday to Saturday daytime Trams will run from Cathedral to Meadowhall only. The PURPLE & TRAM - TRAIN services will be unaffected.

There will be a BY1 replacement Bus service running between Shalesmoor & Middlewood via Hillsborough (no replacement to Malin Bridge), unsure who the operator will be but frequencies are every 12 minutes Monday to Sunday daytime & every 15 minutes in the evenings.

Essential Rail Replacement works 24 July to 6 August

www.stagecoachbus.com

Bus is provided by SYMCA (aka Travel South Yorkshire) and is operated by Wilfreda - details on the TSY website https://www.travelsouthyorkshire.com/en-GB/LandingPage/rail-replacement

 

[JD2168]

Bus is provided by SYMCA (aka Travel South Yorkshire) and is operated by Wilfreda - details on the TSY website https://www.travelsouthyorkshire.com/en-GB/LandingPage/rail-replacement

Interesting, I would think that Wilfreda will use their E400MMC’s on the service as most the remainder of the fleet is coaches.

 

[MCR247]

deleted

Bus is provided by SYMCA (aka Travel South Yorkshire) and is operated by Wilfreda - details on the TSY website https://www.travelsouthyorkshire.com/en-GB/LandingPage/rail-replacement

What a poor way of showing the information visually

 

[unlevel42]

It always strikes me as a crying shame that the Supertram never made it to Ranmoor/Fulwood, given that the 120 route (which effectively parallels the Blue tram to Halfway) sees two buses every ten minutes!

Previously the trams in this area were underused, with trams from Broomhill(Crookes Junction) to Fulwood(Nether Green) being one of earliest sections to close, the section along Glossop Road up to Broomhill was not completed. The impossibility of a Park n' Ride, the difficulty of managing the peak flow from four secondary schools and the low density of housing beyond Ranmoor, makes the current bus provision for a far more frequent and flexible provision. The First and Stagecoach 120's have different teminii and share less than a mile on City Road on the other side of the City.
Expansion of Supertram should be focused on longer routes which benefit the new industrial and residential areas and contribute to re-generation of some of the older estates:
North-including the Northern General Hospital Parson Cross, Ecclesfield, Chapeltown(M1 P&R)
East- Tinsley Park, Treeton, Waverley, Kiveton
South- Norton, Dronfield

 

[JD2168]

There will be a series of rail - replacement works from 24th July until 6th August causing no Trams from Shalesmoor to Middlewood/Malin Bridge. This will be done in sections split up as Middlewood Road, Hillsborough, Infirmary Road & Shalesmoor. During these works the BLUE route will run between Shalesmoor & Halfway at all times with slight changes to the times. The YELLOW route will run between Shalesmoor & Meadowhall, early morning, evening & all day Sunday. On Monday to Saturday daytime Trams will run from Cathedral to Meadowhall only. The PURPLE & TRAM - TRAIN services will be unaffected.

There will be a BY1 replacement Bus service running between Shalesmoor & Middlewood via Hillsborough (no replacement to Malin Bridge), unsure who the operator will be but frequencies are every 12 minutes Monday to Sunday daytime & every 15 minutes in the evenings.

Essential Rail Replacement works 24 July to 6 August

www.stagecoachbus.com

After a 2 day extension into this week caused by recent poor weather Blue & Yellow Trams have returned to normal from this morning.

 

[ricoblade]

After a 2 day extension into this week caused by recent poor weather Blue & Yellow Trams have returned to normal from this morning.

Thanks for this, I have a Malin Bridge trip planned and was wondering when the works were finishing.

 

[Snow1964]

South Yorkshire has issued a £55m tender for replacing / upgrading tracks

Description​

SYMCA own the South Yorkshire Supertram System, which commenced operation in 1994. SYMCA is now embarking on wide ranging renewal programme of Supertram that will see significant investment and improvement across all aspects of the system over the coming years. The initial renewal activity is focussed on trackwork improvements including rail replacement, with works required to commence on site in early 2024.

Total Quantity or Scope​

The following activities are the anticipated core tasks within the contract required to be undertaken by the Supplier(s), and are likely to form the bulk of the suppliers' activities: • Embedded rail replacement • Embedded special track replacement (Switches, crossings, diamonds etc.) • Ballasted track replacement • Ballasted special track replacement Rail replacement shall include, but not limited to, the following activities: • Method statements, pre-installation surveys, rail and special trackwork preparatory and pre-coating works, procurement, and storage of materials, transport and storage of rails, pre-curving of rails, installation, testing and post installation commissioning. • Programme management, stakeholder engagement and constraints management. • Local authority licencing and access permits, • Traffic, environmental and waste management.

South Yorkshire Mayoral Combined Authority - Mass Transit Track Work Contracts [Tender Notice]

SYMCA own the South Yorkshire Supertram System, which commenced operation in 1994. SYMCA is now emb... A Tender Notice by South Yorkshire Mayoral Combined Authority Group. Value £0-£55M.

bidstats.uk

 

[ALEMASTER]

There is an ongoing programme of embedded rail replacement and concrete repairs as already noted here, however when the Stagecoach operating concessions ends in March 2024 and the publicly owned company takes over operation a much bigger programme of renewals is to to get underway - the length of the Stagecoach contract was based on this. The ballasted rails, OHLE and power supply and AVL will need replacing and the depot and fleet need refreshing - among other things.

 

[GardenRail]

Hopefully the new stop at Magna will start soon, though all has gone quiet.

 

[TC60054]

Tram 105 (or at least, two thirds of it!) has returned to Nunnery from Kilmarnock this afternoon, following repairs to damage sustained in a collision with a skip lorry in July 2021.

 

[Techniquest]

Tram 105 (or at least, two thirds of it!) has returned to Nunnery from Kilmarnock this afternoon, following repairs to damage sustained in a collision with a skip lorry in July 2021.

Woohoo, that'll mean it's not that far from re-entering service hopefully!