Should all new trains be accessible to the disabled without the need for station staff or a phone call to the station 1 - 2 days before?

[AngusH]

I'm not sure how many people wouldn't find that difficult to get at.

That seems like it needs both Harrington Humps AND platform-mounted movable sections...

Or a completely new platform surface.
Even the staff member is looking dubious about leaving the train

 

[zwk500]

I'm not sure how many people wouldn't find that difficult to get at.

That seems like it needs both Harrington Humps AND platform-mounted movable sections...

Or a completely new platform surface.
Even the staff member is looking dubious about leaving the train

It's my local station, I'm 6'1 and I am always rather dubious about getting on and off. It's worse on the other platform, not just because it's the outside of the curve so the gap is bigger, but the track is canted very heavily, so you step up over the footboard and then have to stop youself falling straight into the opposite doors. Getting off northbound is rather nice, as you effectively get a nice push out of the door.

 

[Tio Terry]

It's an interesting problem when the platform is on the inside of a canted curve - if you install an angled ramp that's usefully compatible with level track ( and if it's long enough, outside of curves ) then it might well end up pretty steep if the train's leaning inwards. The fully compatible solution would probably be to extend the ramp horizontally & then in a second operation angle it downwards until it makes contact with something, but that's a bit more to go wrong ( and maintain ) than a simple ram... if you raise the platform to step height then you need a new bridge because the ramp won't work & there's a gap between platform & steps unless the doors are central!. I guess a two-action ramp really is the fully compatible option.

Actually there is another one - fold down ramps - but where do you store them, and how fast do you think you can safely deploy? lowering & raising ramps 90 deg is going to increase dwell times a fair bit & you'd have to stow them on the outside of the door ( or actually use the external door! would still need something internally because you don't want people walking on a wall, really ).

One other option that does not seem to be mentioned is the removal, or reduction, of the cant and a decrease in line speed. Ultimately, of course, the closure of at least that part of the station if it is deemed unsafe to use.

 

[zwk500]

One other option that does not seem to be mentioned is the removal, or reduction, of the cant and a decrease in line speed. Ultimately, of course, the closure of at least that part of the station if it is deemed unsafe to use.

Is it reasonable to adversely impact every other journey when the demand for Wheelchair users is comparatively low? Similarly would it be reasonable to prevent anybody using a station/platform at all because some passengers are unable to do so safely? For isolated cases, these things can be worked around, at least until a proper solution can be designed and installed.

 

[HSTEd]

Ultimately I would prefer a modern railway system where none of these problems exist.

Unfortunately since noone is willing to pay for such a system, even though I think it would be worth it in the very long term, it will never exist.

 

[Tio Terry]

Is it reasonable to adversely impact every other journey when the demand for Wheelchair users is comparatively low? Similarly would it be reasonable to prevent anybody using a station/platform at all because some passengers are unable to do so safely? For isolated cases, these things can be worked around, at least until a proper solution can be designed and installed.

There have most certainly been discussions along the lines of what I said in a number of locations to my personal knowledge. There is no easy answer and I guess each case will need to be assessed separately, no doubt, if there is an incident at a site causing injury or loss of life then action will be taken. What is, or is not, "reasonable" will probably only ever be answered by legal president. In terms of it affecting others train journeys, there is already instances of train speed reductions because of infrastructure shortcomings, one I can think of is a level crossing at Needham Market where line speed was reduced to make it safer.

 

[D365]

Ultimately I would prefer a modern railway system where none of these problems exist.

I don’t think anyone would argue against that.

 

[py_megapixel]

I don’t think anyone would argue against that.

Suppliers of portable access ramps, maybe?

No, I think you're right. The problem, of course, is that it's not considered viable to fund it.

 

[option]

like a kneeling bus, which does what you suggest, methinks

Which but up against kerbs that are usually a standard height above the road surface.

Which is exactly why I’ve given you the two options alongside the automatic built-in ramp and stated that it’s now up to the TOCs and Network Rail to take this further.

Surely it's up to government to enforce the law?



As already said, there is a standard, & new trains & platform works should meet that standard.

 

[zwk500]

Surely it's up to government to enforce the law?

As already said, there is a standard, & new trains & platform works should meet that standard.

New trains and platforms DO meet the standard. The problem is this standard changes regularly as the prevailing wisdom on the 'best' way to solve these problems changes. And that's before you get to rebuilding the platforms built before standards were even a thing, let alone those built to out of date standards. There is an issue in that trains still have to serve these non-standard platforms as well as those that meet the standards, so you are constantly compromising between the gap between door and platform, the cost of rebuilding, and the demand for travel requiring level access. And remember that platforms have to be built to a level that permits all traffic to pass, including freight and non-stopping expresses.

 

[owidoe]

I've always wondered why we couldn't build a series of ramps on platforms, with landings at the floor height of every train that calls there (fig. 1).

 

[Purple Orange]

Is this a serious question?