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Should fares at the weekend be raised to take account of increased weekend demand?

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mike57

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A tiny, tiny minority of people book holidays at travel agents in 2022. Holidays are mostly booked online.
Yes OK point taken, but if you could type in a starting station and show 'fill em up' bargains for the following day I am sure people would start to use it, if a genuine saving can be made people will go for it, and maybe do a journey which they wouldn't otherwise be able to/wish to afford
 
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Bletchleyite

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Yes OK point taken, but if you could type in a starting station and show 'fill em up' bargains for the following day I am sure people would start to use it, if a genuine saving can be made people will go for it, and maybe do a journey which they wouldn't otherwise be able to/wish to afford

I don't think there'd be any harm in doing that, nor showing (like easyJet do) different prices for different days, but for 90%+ of people the destination for any preplanned time away by train is already fixed - it's London (or perhaps Edinburgh if Scottish). Most other stuff will be done by car.
 

mike57

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I don't think there'd be any harm in doing that, nor showing (like easyJet do) different prices for different days, but for 90%+ of people the destination for any preplanned time away by train is already fixed - it's London (or perhaps Edinburgh if Scottish). Most other stuff will be done by car.
A bit off topic but SNCF used to offer some last minute bargains, not sure if they still do. I remember booking some tickets at the Gare L'Est ticket counter some years back, and we got a very helpful booking clerk who asked 'What are you doing tomorrow?' It turns out there were some very cheap first class returns for the following day to Reims, which we took advantage off, and visited the Champagne caves. I dont think LGV Est had been open long, 45 min journey, well worth it
 

Techniquest

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Yes OK point taken, but if you could type in a starting station and show 'fill em up' bargains for the following day I am sure people would start to use it, if a genuine saving can be made people will go for it, and maybe do a journey which they wouldn't otherwise be able to/wish to afford

I would absolutely use such a service, no question of it. It's ideal for those of us who want a day out but not super fussed about where and have flexibility. I strongly suspect even families could use it.

As for whoever said no-one plans their days out the same day/the night before, oh that's so not true. My day out yesterday was being mostly planned on Tuesday morning, but not booked until something silly like 2330 Tuesday night, with the travel beginning at 0857 on Wednesday. I knew where I was going, or at least I had various options, so I looked them all up before committing to the adventure.

I regularly don't buy tickets to travel until the day itself, sometimes with less than an hour's notice. mike57's idea would give me that flexibility to go "Ooh, I didn't think of going there, I'll book that" or "Oh wow, that journey's a bargain today, I'll book that one and not the usual one". Of course, fares being set and not flexing on demand means it is more reliably known in advance how much a journey will cost, which can be very useful. Especially on regular journeys, where it can all be booked on the walk to the station and it being known what time that fare is valid at for the return.

Regarding weekend fares, I'd be against putting them up too. It wouldn't directly affect me, as I have extremely low to zero need of the railway at weekends, but for the benefit of humanity as a whole I don't think it's a good idea.

Talking of better for humanity, I'd instead look to actively enforce no smoking outside entrances to stations, including paths directly leading to the entrances. Vaping would be included in that, and equally applicable to railway staff and passengers, and of course everyone else, alike. It's certainly one thing that would help to encourage people to use the railway, and yes I include myself in being frustrated by smokers at stations as it's not fun having to walk past armies of smokers and vapers to get onto/off the stations. I would honestly say that and providing a service which is reliable is more important than jacking up rail fares.

Quite honestly, the prices asked for a lot of journeys puts me off using the train. I'm not the only person I know who has that issue, I know people who have railcards who even with the discount don't use the trains because of the cost and unreliability. If the fares were to go up at the weekends, then as so many others have already said, just you watch the demand levels drop and the roads get much busier. It may not happen overnight, but by the end of the year it would be noticeable.

If it's the peak time trains that aren't loaded to the maximum any more, but leisure time trains are, then the solution for me would be to scrap peak time altogether. That would sure spread the loads out during the day, and I would be much happier to use the railway at say 7am rather than wait until say half 9 for off-peak to start. Making the railway affordable for the masses has to be the way forward, there is zero point running a 12 car 700 at an average fare of (say) £30 but it being lightly loaded when you could sell the same train at an average of £15 and fill all 12 coaches. It is always better to have 100x £15 than maybe 30x £30, especially if the route in question has on-board catering, the lower fare means there's a chance the average person would have more money to spend on a £3 coffee and snack deal from the trolley for example.

So, weekend fares increase? No thank you. Scrapping peak time and increasing the amount of people on board, even if the average fare is less, yes please.
 

gc4946

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We don't know yet whether longer distance peak time travel will return to pre-Covid levels, especially to/from London.
There's a case for peak restrictions to be lifted on a route by route basis depending on loadings.
Alternatively more advance tickets offered at off-peak prices on peak services to fill empty seats
 

miklcct

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Alternatively more advance tickets offered at off-peak prices on peak services to fill empty seats
This is what SWR is doing now - it's easy to find advance availability on peak trains, but hard to find any availability on weekend trains.
 

Paul Jones 88

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After being out and about today on busses, I observed a quite ridiculous amount of cars, cheaper rail fares would encourage people to leave those cars in the garage and take the train instead, also it would help bus drivers immeasurably as some car drivers are so inconsiderate towards busses, especially in London.
 

philosopher

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We don't know yet whether longer distance peak time travel will return to pre-Covid levels, especially to/from London.
There's a case for peak restrictions to be lifted on a route by route basis depending on loadings.
Alternatively more advance tickets offered at off-peak prices on peak services to fill empty seats
I think there is a good argument for perhaps scrapping peak time restrictions on intercity services and just having a single fare that is between the current off-peak and peak fare. Cheaper fares of course would still be available through advance fares.

Having peak and off peak periods on the longer Intercity services always seemed a bit odd to me as due to the length of the service, it may be peak time when you board, but by the time you arrive it will probably be off-peak or vice versa. Plus the longer intercity services, in my experience tended to be less busy that most off-peak services, even before Covid.
 

Wolfie

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Simple answer: No.

People are already facing enough financial constraints as it is, and after two years of lockdown and Covid restrictions, many people want to start living life again.

Increasing fares at the weekend is going to put people off that and may mean that many people, for whom the fares are stretching things, will be spending yet more time at home - and we've had quite enough of that since 2020!

I appreciate that the railway is having financial problems, but I don't think, from an ethical perspective, the solution to the current financial crisis is to start increasing the cost of absolutely every product and service we enjoy (beyond normal inflation-linked fare increases in the case of the railway).

Maybe the government and the rail companies need to be lobbying businesses to lessen work-from-home practices to enable that commuter revenue to come back.
Re your last para, l work for HMG and am expected to be in the office 40% of the time. As HMG has done the same as many other employers and taken the saving of reducing office space that, on average, is as high as they can go.
 

To the trains

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I'm less sure of the logic. People travelling for leisure are generally very cost sensitive, especially with the cost of living crisis and there's no regulation about how much advance fares should cost, so do train companies offer cheap tickets out of the kindness of their hearts? No, it's because they want to get people onto trains on weekends when there aren't so many business travellers and commuters to fill up the trains (who are the majority of train travellers). As others have also said, services are usually worse at weekends, why should we pay for the privilege, when train fares are already stupidly overpriced? Besides, if you make taking the train too expensive, people are likely to drive instead, is that what we really want during the climate crisis?
 
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GoneSouth

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sunday, by a mile. Less than half the passengers of weekdays.
Mainly because there’s such a terrible service in some areas. Infrequent, Late starts, cancellations due to staff not wanting to work Sundays etc.

Honestly asking people to pay more for the service we get in Sunday is an insult. I read words like gouging in here and just feel like the industry treats us punters with contempt, an inconvenience.

If you offer the same level of service on a Sunday that you do on Monday to Friday, fair enough, I’ll take the peak train I premium charges, but if your first train on a Sunday isn’t until 11 then forget it. You then have the problem of 2 or 3 hour gaps in services, no wonder there’s overcrowding.

Oh, and I’ve had a couple of replacement buses on weekends in the past month. I don’t mind it happening, I want the railway to be modern, safe etc but you can’t charge a premium for that experience!

Well yes, but one could argue that any weekend day out is an experience, the train journey simply being the means for that. In any case, the star attraction at heritage railways nowadays tends to be the cafe, not the train ride!



Does it matter if some don’t take the train, as long as overall revenue increases? Some people not taking the train might have the spin-off benefit of reducing the weekend overcrowding we so often read about on here.
That’s hardly fair on the people who don’t have the choice of driving. Let’s take that to the extreme and price everyone off the railway who has the option of using a car, for those few of us left, it’s going to be cheaper to use a taxi (but still unfairly much more expensive than driving oneself). No passengers = job done, everybody gets Sunday off and none of that faffing around with arranging replacement buses as the work won’t be getting in the way of passenger journeys.
 
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Bald Rick

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Mainly because there’s such a terrible service in some areas. Infrequent, Late starts, cancellations due to staff not wanting to work Sundays etc.

no, it’s mainly because:

a) a majority of people don’t work or go to school on Sundays (these groups still account for the majority significant of rail travel)
b) there Are fewer events / attractions open on Sundays than Saturdays, and leisure travellers less likely to trvale to them as a result
c) people go to their church on Sunday mornings and thus no no need to travel by train


OK, (c) isn’t really a reason ;)
 

miklcct

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I'm now travelling on a massively crowded Friday evening peak SWR service to Bournemouth using an advance ticket priced £3.65 with 26-30 Railcard bought on 20 April, with scheduled departure 19:22 from Southampton Central formed of 5 coaches of 444, which is the normal formation as it is a portion of the 10-coach departure from Waterloo, with the other portion runs slow to Poole.

There are literally dozens of standing passengers in each carriage, the most serious overcrowding I've seen on a long distance train since I moved to the UK last year.

As I joined the train at Southampton, I have no idea how crowded it is in the other portion. However, 5 coaches once per hour are clearly not enough for a Friday evening peak train after Southampton to Weymouth. Hopefully when the second Weymouth returns mid-May the problem can be mitigated.

I have seen Advance tickets offered at more expensive tiers on less crowded services, so SWR must have done its revenue management wrong.
 

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