Should I delay repay ?

[Sm5]

Incident 1..

Friday 4th June Brighton

Family of 4, headed for a day trip to Brighton from Coulsdon South, around 8pm we headed back.
the station was in chaos, nothing on the BML due to a fatality at Burgess Hill.
By 10pm we were still awaiting the 3rd bus to shop up taking passengers from Brighton to Three Bridges.

At 1130pm we gave up on the queue took a taxi, initially to Three Bridges, but then on checking train times, all services to Coulsdon South from Redhill were cancelled as well.

We asked the taxi to take us all the way back to Coulsdon South to pick up the car, and drove home, £100 fare.

Next day, I checked and saw around midnight a service did run up, but obviously not stopping and no remaining Coulsdon South connections It could have got us to East Croydon around 1am (but the ticket wasnt valid for East Croydon), and we’d need a taxi anyway, back to Coulsdon South… as there was no service South either.

I have the unused return. It was an on the spot purchase from the machine at Coulsdon South, paper tickets.
Can I delay repay, can I claim a taxi ?


Incident 2..
Saturday 3rd July Bournemouth

Ticket from Clapham Junction to Bournemouth return
Trip with my little one to see 35018 and Bournemouth beach.

Clapham jn was a bit enthusiast unfriendly, but we set off to Basingstoke (Salisbury service), saw 35018 depart, (we learned at this point all Waterloo -South West services were cancelled due to a broken 3rd rail at Micheldever). The only service running was an hourly Curtailed XC (Diesel) Reading -Bournemouth, but also told its reservation only, plus 35018. We were being shepherded to a Bus to Southampton, but by this point our journey was now pointless.. we’d not get to Bournemouth until way past 35018 had gone, and the “day out” would be negated by the need to allow an extra 2 hours to get back.

We returned back up to London on an up from Salisbury ( and made a new day out purchasing a travelcard, visiting Wembley and around instead).

As ive used my ticket as far as Basingstoke and back, can I delay repay it ?
Ticket purchased via Trainline on the day, and collected at Clapham Junction ticket machines, paper tickets.

despite travelling excessively for years, Ive never actually done a delay repay before.

 

[Grumpy Git]

Incident 1 - If I understand Delay Repay rules correctly, your time limit of 28 days to claim has passed, so it doesn't matter what happened.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Never thought it wholly appropriate to submit a 'Delay Repay' claim when the delay has (sadly) been occasioned by a fatality.

But as @Grumpy Git has pointed out, you're out of time in submitting a claim from 4th/5th June anyway.

 

[Haywain]

Incident 1..

Friday 4th June Brighton

Family of 4, headed for a day trip to Brighton from Coulsdon South, around 8pm we headed back.
the station was in chaos, nothing on the BML due to a fatality at Burgess Hill.
By 10pm we were still awaiting the 3rd bus to shop up taking passengers from Brighton to Three Bridges.

At 1130pm we gave up on the queue took a taxi, initially to Three Bridges, but then on checking train times, all services to Coulsdon South from Redhill were cancelled as well.

We asked the taxi to take us all the way back to Coulsdon South to pick up the car, and drove home, £100 fare.

Next day, I checked and saw around midnight a service did run up, but obviously not stopping and no remaining Coulsdon South connections It could have got us to East Croydon around 1am (but the ticket wasnt valid for East Croydon), and we’d need a taxi anyway, back to Coulsdon South… as there was no service South either.

I have the unused return. It was an on the spot purchase from the machine at Coulsdon South, paper tickets.
Can I delay repay, can I claim a taxi ?

You are outside the 28 day limit for claiming Delay Repay, and equally too late for a refund to be claimed on the return portion. You could write to the train operator and politeley ask if you might get any recompense but there is no entitlement.

Incident 2..
Saturday 3rd July Bournemouth

Ticket from Clapham Junction to Bournemouth return
Trip with my little one to see 35018 and Bournemouth beach.

Clapham jn was a bit enthusiast unfriendly, but we set off to Basingstoke (Salisbury service), saw 35018 depart, (we learned at this point all Waterloo -South West services were cancelled due to a broken 3rd rail at Micheldever). The only service running was an hourly Curtailed XC (Diesel) Reading -Bournemouth, but also told its reservation only, plus 35018. We were being shepherded to a Bus to Southampton, but by this point our journey was now pointless.. we’d not get to Bournemouth until way past 35018 had gone, and the “day out” would be negated by the need to allow an extra 2 hours to get back.

We returned back up to London on an up from Salisbury ( and made a new day out purchasing a travelcard, visiting Wembley and around instead).

As ive used my ticket as far as Basingstoke and back, can I delay repay it ?
Ticket purchased via Trainline on the day, and collected at Clapham Junction ticket machines, paper tickets.

despite travelling excessively for years, Ive never actually done a delay repay before.

This was an aborted journey and you are entitled to claim a full refund of the tickets you had purchased. You should do this rather than claim Delay Repay. The refund will come from the company which sold the tickets and will not attract an admin fee, but must be requested within 28 days of the expiry of the ticket.

 

[Sm5]

thanks for the fast responses,

Ho hum on the Brighton trip then.

The Bournemouth trip was Trainline, (& station ticket collection) and they are asking for a return of tickets and an admin fee (£10) (which was the reason for prompting this post). The original price was £40 (Adult/Child + Railcard).

Of course the tickets were used at original entry to the turnstiles at Clapham.
Which obviously they would question.

Given the various scary stories on this thread of how they treat passengers, tbh it doesn't feel worth the aggravation For £30.

Whats options on a credit card dispute and let the credit card company deal with it ?
They might say 28 days for delay repay, but I didn't get what my contract was for an open return, surely an open return should be at my choice, not theirs and in both cases failed to provide.

 

[furlong]

For 2, refer to the National Rail Conditions of Travel section 30.1

30.1. If the train you intended to use is cancelled, delayed, or your reservation
will not be honoured, and you decide not to travel, you may return the unused
Ticket to the original retailer or Train Company from whom it was purchased,
where you will be given a full refund with no administration fee being charged.
This Condition applies to all Tickets, including Tickets (such as Advance Tickets)
that are otherwise non-refundable, and also applies if you have begun your
journey but are unable to complete it due to delay or cancellations and return to
your point of origin.

Additionally

30.2. When applying for a refund under this Condition you will need to state the
date, time and station where you would otherwise have started your journey
from. You must write to the Train Company to notify them of your claim within
28 days of the date that you intended to travel.

30.3. Your refund application will be processed without undue delay and any
refund due will be paid within 14 days of your claim being agreed by the Train
Company. Our target is to process all claims within one month of receipt.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Never thought it wholly appropriate to submit a 'Delay Repay' claim when the delay has (sadly) been occasioned by a fatality.

I have generally informed the decision on whether to do so in such a circumstance by how well the railway handled the situation in terms of information etc.

 

[furlong]

For 1, you're out of time for the normal industry arrangements so would probably need to fall back on the Consumer Rights Act and contract law - i.e. you need to consider whether or not the small claims court would be likely to award you compensation and how much, and then contact the train company on that basis, taking into account whether the cause was within the rail industry's control and what they might have been expected to do differently considering the full circumstances. Or just write a nice letter and see if they'll offer you any compensation - at least a refund of the fare if not the taxi bill.

 

[Sm5]

For 1, you're out of time for the normal industry arrangements so would probably need to fall back on the Consumer Rights Act and contract law - i.e. you need to consider whether or not the small claims court would be likely to award you compensation and how much, and then contact the train company on that basis, taking into account whether the cause was within the rail industry's control and what they might have been expected to do differently considering the full circumstances. Or just write a nice letter and see if they'll offer you any compensation - at least a refund of the fare if not the taxi bill.

Thanks on this one.

Obviously a fatality was outside their control. however it was compounded by a points failure at Redhill (cancelling Reigate to Victoria hence Coulsdon South’s other non-Brighton line services)… we still couldnt get home if Burgess Hill hadnt happened, admittedly being stuck in Redhill is slightly less of an issue than being stuck in Brighton.

The annoyance was 3 buses (2 double deck, 1 single), each taking circa 1 hour was insufficient for thousands of people returning from Brighton on a friday night.

Ive never felt the urge to use delay repay before (long distance has been generally fine, London commuter travel isnt worth the odd £1 here nor there thats suggested given service volumes).

my lesson learned here is the 28 day, thanks on that.

Can I ask in a repeat of similar circumstance like this, would it be reasonable to have travelled beyond Coulsdon South to East Croydon (next significant station) and taxied back, given that loss of service or would that be a big No ?

Certainly here, waiting 3 hours for that bus, had I have known it was going to be so poor, i’d have jumped the taxi sooner, regardless. It started well informed, queue managed, good atmosphere, a number of families (hot day/half term) and they gave water. We were informed 7 buses were requested, but the bus company was struggling to find drivers to do it. They did say drivers arent allowed to carry phones, so the only update was on when arriving or leaving Brighton or Three Bridges (and they did relay that).

However I had my mother, nearly 80, and Daughter at 10, neither really were suitable to be stuck 3.5 hours with a growing crowd of Brightons unhappy drunks turning up after 11pm, which is why we flipped to the taxi as it was becoming a bit unstable and staff seemed to be in retreat. It seemed like it was rapidly approaching end of what should have been schedule services that day so we were becoming concerned at how events might unfold and if it might have gone out of hand.

I’m just glad for RTT in the taxi, as it showed south bounds were turning into 5Zxx’s from Three Bridges, so rather than returning loaded northbound In the paths of cancelled services, there was very little options from their either. Hence the decision to taxi all the way home, and I dont regret that choice. Next morning I learnt those passengers who did make the bus, were in for a an extra surprise having to wait a further 1-2 hours at Three Bridges only to find the next service was that up midnight Brighton and I can just imagine how full that was arriving at Three Bridges.

 

[Haywain]

The Bournemouth trip was Trainline, (& station ticket collection) and they are asking for a return of tickets and an admin fee (£10) (which was the reason for prompting this post). The original price was £40 (Adult/Child + Railcard).

Of course the tickets were used at original entry to the turnstiles at Clapham.
Which obviously they would question.

Given the various scary stories on this thread of how they treat passengers, tbh it doesn't feel worth the aggravation For £30.

First off, I would see £30 as being better than nothing. But it should be £40, because no admin fee is due when the refund is due to disruption - Trainline's website will indicate £10 because that is the default in 'normal' circumstances. The fact that tickets have been through a barrier is neither here nor there in the case of a disruption refund - your journey was aborted, so must have been started. Overall, I would not expect you to have trouble over getting a refund, but you might have to prompt them to give the full £40 rather than £30.

 

[island]

Whats options on a credit card dispute and let the credit card company deal with it ?
They might say 28 days for delay repay, but I didn't get what my contract was for an open return, surely an open return should be at my choice, not theirs and in both cases failed to provide.

Minimum purchase is £100.01 per item for a section 75 dispute. Chargeback has no minimum but requires that you exhaust your remedies with the seller first. A chargeback claim is limited in value to the cost of the item and cannot pay consequential losses.

 

[robbeech]

Trainline will always try to charge you the admin fee to do a refund, and the refund will be £0 if it was an e-ticket that had been scanned at all (certainly on board but maybe even by a barrier at the origin). They don’t go out of their way to tell people that no fee is charged in this situation simply because they can make money from refunds during disruption. You ALWAYS have to push them to adhere to the rules.

 

[island]

Trainline will always try to charge you the admin fee to do a refund, and the refund will be £0 if it was an e-ticket that had been scanned at all (certainly on board but maybe even by a barrier at the origin). They don’t go out of their way to tell people that no fee is charged in this situation simply because they can make money from refunds during disruption. You ALWAYS have to push them to adhere to the rules.

Yet another reason not to use Trainline.

 

[guilbert]

Unless I've misunderstood something I think requesting to be reimbursed for the taxi in incident 1 would be entirely reasonable. You'd need to contact customer services though rather than submitting a delay repay. You may be challenged on why you didn't wait for a bus or let them arrange a taxi for you.

 

[AlterEgo]

Unless I've misunderstood something I think requesting to be reimbursed for the taxi in incident 1 would be entirely reasonable. You'd need to contact customer services though rather than submitting a delay repay. You may be challenged on why you didn't wait for a bus or let them arrange a taxi for you.

Unless the OP gave the opportunity to let the train company organise an alternative form of transport, or a taxi, I don’t see that they would be unilaterally entitled to claim the cost.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Trainline will always try to charge you the admin fee to do a refund, and the refund will be £0 if it was an e-ticket that had been scanned at all (certainly on board but maybe even by a barrier at the origin). They don’t go out of their way to tell people that no fee is charged in this situation simply because they can make money from refunds during disruption. You ALWAYS have to push them to adhere to the rules.

I have done a cancellation refund through Trainline and no attempt was made to charge me the admin fee. You just need to follow the process they outline for it - which (confusingly) involves submission of a customer services form and not using the refund button which is automatic and does apply the fee.

 

[Grumpy Git]

I have done a cancellation refund through Trainline and no attempt was made to charge me the admin fee. You just need to follow the process they outline for it - which (confusingly) involves submission of a customer services form and not using the refund button which is automatic and does apply the fee.

Sounds like they give the customer a 99% chance of paying the £10 fee whether they should or shouldn't if that is the case, which smacks of opportunism to rip people off?

Very much a "Ryanair" like gesture if you ask me.

 

[robbeech]

I have done a cancellation refund through Trainline and no attempt was made to charge me the admin fee. You just need to follow the process they outline for it - which (confusingly) involves submission of a customer services form and not using the refund button which is automatic and does apply the fee.

But they push the refund on the app option really significantly.
“It’s easy to refund using the app”
And, if you ask them, they’ll often point you towards that method. People accept it all the time because they know no better. The amount of people you see that assume that an advance being non refundable is just that, full stop, even if the train is cancelled is alarming, but given how nobody shouts about it (and for good reason) it’s of little surprise. Everyone can have a free bag of crisps, but don’t tell anyone or everyone will want a free bag of crisps.