Should people stop calling other people 'jealous'?

[johncrossley]

I see a lot of posts on various forums calling people 'jealous' (pejoratively) because they don't have what someone else has. Is that acceptable? Maybe that person is just unlucky and didn't bring the misfortune upon themselves?

 

[AM9]

I see a lot of posts on various forums calling people 'jealous' (pejoratively) because they don't have what someone else has. Is that acceptable? Maybe that person is just unlucky and didn't bring the misfortune upon themselves?

Probably 'envious' is a better word as it doesn't imply any malice. 'Jealous' is more used by children.
Of course much of this type of comment relates to the increasing extreme imbalance that class privilege causes in the UK, so such feelings aren't always about just being "unlucky".

 

[ComUtoR]

I like 'covetous' but that has more religious overtones than one of the deadly sins.

However it's said, I think you are missing out the first part of the discussion that leads to someone being called jealous.

 

[birchesgreen]

I like 'covetous' but that has more religious overtones than one of the deadly sins.

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's ass.

 

[johncrossley]

Probably 'envious' is a better word as it doesn't imply any malice. 'Jealous' is more used by children.
Of course much of this type of comment relates to the increasing extreme imbalance that class privilege causes in the UK, so such feelings aren't always about just being "unlucky".

Just for an example, you sometimes see train drivers calling others 'jealous'. Not everyone can be a train driver because there are not enough vacancies. So there's a fair amount of luck involved.

 

[AM9]

I like 'covetous' but that has more religious overtones than one of the deadly sins.

However it's said, I think you are missing out the first part of the discussion that leads to someone being called jealous.

I disagree, - it works both ways, calling somebody else 'jealous' is deliberately trivialising unfairness. Admitting one's own jealousy is up to the individual, usually as a form of self deprecation of even self-pity.

 

[ash39]

I disagree, - it works both ways, calling somebody else 'jealous' is deliberately trivialising unfairness. Admitting one's own jealousy is up to the individual, usually as a form of self deprecation of even self-pity.

I disagree also. If you're acting in a jealous manner you're more than likely trivialising the hard work and/or sacrifice the person you're jealous of had to go through to achieve what it is you want.

Look inward! Using the train driver example, you can either sit around sulking that there aren't many vacancies and people who secure driver jobs are lucky, or you can put that energy into working on your own future applications to give yourself the best chance of getting the job. Which do you think is most helpful?

 

[baz962]

Just for an example, you sometimes see train drivers calling others 'jealous'. Not everyone can be a train driver because there are not enough vacancies. So there's a fair amount of luck involved.

To be honest , when I saw the name of this thread , I immediately thought that someone would bring the train driver example up. It isn't just thrown around though , it's usually said to people that knock drivers and say that the job is easy and that drivers are overpaid. There must be a reason that people talk about drivers and the job in that way and all the while , having absolutely no clue about the job.

 

[johncrossley]

To be honest , when I saw the name of this thread , I immediately thought that someone would bring the train driver example up. It isn't just thrown around though , it's usually said to people that knock drivers and say that the job is easy and that drivers are overpaid. There must be a reason that people talk about drivers and the job in that way and all the while , having absolutely no clue about the job.

That's still abuse, though. Surely such abuse is unacceptable, especially if you are in a privileged position?

 

[yorkie]

That's still abuse, though. Surely such abuse is unacceptable, especially if you are in a privileged position?

Do you have any examples of abuse occuring?

It's difficult to understand what this thread is really about; it seems very abstract.

(Incidentally this seems an opportune moment to remind people that if anyone thinks abuse is occuring on this forum, it should not be referred to in any forum thread and instead reported, through the report system)

 

[ash39]

That's still abuse, though. Surely such abuse is unacceptable, especially if you are in a privileged position?

Calling someone jealous or saying someone is acting jealous is not abuse. Blimey.

A train driver isn't a position of privelige either, in fact it's one of the least priveliged jobs I can think of as it requires no specific background, qualification or experience. If you are the right personality for the job and put the effort into the application, you stand as good a chance as anybody.

 

[johncrossley]

Do you have any examples of abuse occuring?

It's difficult to understand what this thread is really about; it seems very abstract.

(Incidentally this seems an opportune moment to remind people that if anyone thinks abuse is occuring on this forum, it should not be referred to in any forum thread and instead reported, through the report system)

I don't want to point out specific posts but even if you search for the word 'jealous' on this forum you can find several examples in the last few years. Not just in relation to train driving, but also if you've got a nice house.

Calling someone jealous or saying someone is acting jealous is not abuse. Blimey.

A train driver isn't a position of privelige either, in fact it's one of the least priveliged jobs I can think of as it requires no specific background, qualification or experience. If you are the right personality for the job and put the effort into the application, you stand as good a chance as anybody.

I beg to differ. (By the way, using that tone is abuse).

By having a very high paid job, that automatically makes you privileged and you've been extremely lucky. Not many people are born with the right skills to be a train driver. That's also luck. Professional footballers generally come from humble backgrounds, but now they enjoy privilege.

 

[Lucan]

In web forums generally, it "you are jealous" has become a knee-jerk response by admirers of billionaires to any criticism of their idols' operations. For example if someone criticises Amazon's treatment of its workers, the critic is accused of being jealous of Jeff Bezos's wealth. Ditto if someone points out a technical problem with one of Elon Musk's hairbrained schemes. The word is in fashion.

The tendency seems to be more common among Americans, because wealth has always been the end promise of the "American Dream", and such billionaires are supposed to be proof that the dream can come true. Admirers of billionaires do their admiring on the basis of their idol's wealth and cannot imagine any other measure of a person, so they assume that critics of their idols also have only money in mind and are reacting negatively with jealousy rather than positively with admiration.

 

[ash39]

You can go through life with a chip on your shoudler if you want, but the only way to improve your living situation is to either work hard or take risks. You might not have the right skills to be a train driver, but there are other ways to make train driver levels of income if that's what matters to you. People from all kinds of backgrounds and skillsets start businesses and become successful, you just need to have the inclination and drive to do it. If you look at people who started with very little and worked their way up, they all have certain traits in common. They never blame anyone else, they're not afraid to make mistakes and they have a relentless work ethic.

I myself got to the final stage of psychometric testing in 2013 for a train driver job, but failed the MMI interview. I was disappointed at the time but I failed for a reason, I was fairly young and didn't have the right life experience to deal with emergency situations. I honestly think if I took the same interview today I would pass and get the job, but that's life. I've taken a different path now and don't blame anyone else for failing the interview.

 

[johncrossley]

You can go through life with a chip on your shoudler if you want, but the only way to improve your living situation is to either work hard or take risks.

What if you take risks and still don't succeed? If you are unlucky, does that mean successful people have the right to insult you?

 

[ash39]

Absoltuely not but calling someone jealous is not an insult, especially if it's a reaction to being told you are lucky or priveliged because you worked hard to get to where you are.

 

[johncrossley]

Absoltuely not but calling someone jealous is not an insult, especially if it's a reaction to being told you are lucky or priveliged because you worked hard to get to where you are.

They don't have to respond. If you call someone a name, the other person might get hurt. Therefore it is unacceptable.

 

[Dent]

You might not have the right skills to be a train driver, but there are other ways to make train driver levels of income if that's what matters to you. People from all kinds of backgrounds and skillsets start businesses and become successful, you just need to have the inclination and drive to do it.

There are also far more people who, despite having all the inclination and drive, have not been so fortunate. Someone not being successful does not mean that they did not make all the effort they possibly could, and claiming that is does is a deeply offensive manifestation of a toxic victim-blaming culture.

 

[baz962]

That's still abuse, though. Surely such abuse is unacceptable, especially if you are in a privileged position?

Perhaps then , people should respect our jobs. I respect everybody for the job they do and in fact I make a point of thanking everyone. That goes for someone that's cut my hair or served me a meal or my doctor. And if something goes above and beyond I make sure to add , so I say thanks I really appreciate that so much. What I don't do is say to them , you are paid too much and aren't worth it and the job is easy. In fact I acknowledge that if I don't know and have never tried a job , then I can't reasonably comment. I certainly wouldn't as a layman , tell someone who actually does and knows a job , that it's easy. If calling someone jealous is somehow abusive , then perhaps putting down someone's for the job they do is abusive too . It gets quite tiring after all , listening to back seat train driver's knock my job , especially when they know nothing about it.
And to add I know I'm quite fortunate and very appreciative too. I also post when I know of vacancies and if people ask me for advice , I give it freely. In short I don't deserve people knocking me for my job , lucky or not.

 

[AlterEgo]

There are also far more people who, despite having all the inclination and drive, have not been so fortunate. Someone not being successful does not mean that they did not make all the effort they possibly could, and claiming that is does is a deeply offensive manifestation of a toxic victim-blaming culture.

Of course, being successful in any field is often just as much about luck as skill or graft. That’s why people can become jealous easily. “Why can’t I do that? Why do they get to do that, and not me?”

I do think that where comments are noticed by jealously, an abstract, illogical emotion, it is fair to point that out, and not abusive.

 

[ash39]

They don't have to respond. If you call someone a name, the other person might get hurt. Therefore it is unacceptable.

Jealous/jealousy is not name-calling, it's an adjective to decribe behaviour. And calling someone lucky because they have a certain job is jealousy, however you want to dress it up. I have the right to respond if someone says I'm lucky to have my job, what gives someone the right to comment on that if they don't even know me or my background?

There are also far more people who, despite having all the inclination and drive, have not been so fortunate. Someone not being successful does not mean that they did not make all the effort they possibly could, and claiming that is does is a deeply offensive manifestation of a toxic victim-blaming culture.

Firstly I didn't claim that, and I agree with the first two-thirds of your post. The closing line is insane though, you are essentially claiming someone who hasn't got as good a job as they want is a victim(!) which is a frightening indication of the direction society is going in. I suppose it's far easier to play the victim card and make feel others feel bad for being sucessful than it is to work on yourself.

Ultimately I empathsie with people who genuinely can't catch a break and are struggling to make a good living, particuarly in the case of people who studied for degrees and now can't put that knowledge to use. That doesn't mean it's OK to go round belittling peoples careers or achievements and then getting upset when they rightly want to defend themselves.

 

[Dent]

The closing line is insane though, you are essentially claiming someone who hasn't got as good a job as they want is a victim(!) which is a frightening indication of the direction society is going in. I suppose it's far easier to play the victim card and make feel others feel bad for being sucessful than it is to work on yourself.

Ultimately I empathsie with people who genuinely can't catch a break and are struggling to make a good living, particuarly in the case of people who studied for degrees and now can't put that knowledge to use. That doesn't mean it's OK to go round belittling peoples careers or achievements and then getting upset when they rightly want to defend themselves.

Why is it "insane" to acknowledge that some people, through no fault of their own, are less fortunate than others, and hence are the victim of circumstances beyond their control? what is "frightening" about accepting that someone's lack of fortune may well not be their fault?

Who was proposing to "play the victim card and make feel others feel bad for being sucessful than it is to work on yourself" or "go round belittling peoples careers or achievements and then getting upset when they rightly want to defend themselves"? I don't see anyone suggesting either of these things.

 

[johncrossley]

Jealous/jealousy is not name-calling, it's an adjective to decribe behaviour. And calling someone lucky because they have a certain job is jealousy, however you want to dress it up. I have the right to respond if someone says I'm lucky to have my job, what gives someone the right to comment on that if they don't even know me or my background?

Retaliation is unacceptable.

 

[BluePenguin]

I don’t think it is bad to be envious over something that someone else has which you want, but cannot have.

Notable example amongst my friends is the contentious issue of those who have a PRIV or railcard and those of us who do not.

Some people are never happy with what they have, constantly obsess over what others have and always want more. In this instance I think jealousy is not healthy. However otherwise it is not an issue

As I say, don’t be jealous, be better

 

[dakta]

Do you have any examples of abuse occuring?

Possibly. It's not quite pulling the train driver card but close - This week I nearly jumped on a facebook argument the other day because there was a debate going on about railway photos being used (though credited) on other facebook pages the original photographer wasn't aware of. Debate was reasonable until someone took offence at the complaint being considered not major - nothing wrong with the disagreement but I nearly commented just because of the attitude which was along the lines of 'who the hell are you to have an opinion, you're not a true railwayman like the complainant is, get back on the end of the platform where you belong'

its not word perfect as I can't find it but the gist was you're just a spotter, why the heck do you have an opinion you dont work on the railways.

I'd love to be a railway driver and I don't mind giving them a bit of respect in that they have a job I'd openly admit to loving to have. But there is a limit - in society sense its a normal job, it's not top gun and whilst i'd say the pays damn good it's not the default reason people might call a train driver out on something (theres a lot of good jobs out there).

Hopefully I've not offended too many people with that

 

[Tetchytyke]

You can go through life with a chip on your shoudler if you want, but the only way to improve your living situation is to either work hard or take risks.

Sadly that really isn't true. Never has been. Never will be.

It's purely a way for the wealthy to justify themselves, a simultaneous pat on the back and a way of turning their back on the poor. "Oh they didn't work hard enough, not like me, I worked hard, I took risks". Truth is some minimum-wage drone in an Amazon warehouse works harder than Jeff Bezos ever did. Same with care home staff. And so on and so forth.

As for "taking risks", that too is a way of rich people patting themselves on the back. Look at the likes of Kirstie Allsopp, who claims she got where she is by "taking risks"; truth is she's the daughter of an Eton-educated Baron and only got where she was due to his patronage.

Elon Musk's the son of a South African emerald mine owner. Jeff Bezos' grandfather was a big player in the US atomic industry. Richard Branson's father was a noted barrister and his grandfather was a senior High Court judge and Privy Councillor. Bill Gates comes from a long line of successful bankers.

It's easy to "take risks" and "work hard" when your family is minted.

Sadly pointing all this out is too often labelled as "jealousy".

I also think this explains the rise of mental health problems in younger people. The truth is you can't be who you want to be if you try hard enough, hard work and risk-taking isn't the solution, most people will achieve comfortable nediocrity as a absolute best. Sadly we're not taught this, we're taught that people like Elon Musk- who came from a fabulously wealthy family- are "self made".

 

[yorkie]

...The truth is you can't be who you want to be if you try hard enough, hard work and risk-taking isn't the solution, most people will achieve comfortable nediocrity as a absolute best...

I'm happy with this life of so-called "comfortable mediocrity"; I wouldn't want to be is the position of any of the people you cite anyway.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I'm happy with this life of so-called "comfortable mediocrity"; I wouldn't want to be is the position of any of the people you cite anyway.

Absolutely! I'm very happy with comfortable mediocrity. I think people would generally be happier if we all were comfortable with mediocrity.

 

[Yew]

You can go through life with a chip on your shoudler if you want, but the only way to improve your living situation is to either work hard or take risks.

How hard do I have to work for my parents to give me 21K as a gift for a house deposit as a 21st birthday present, something that has happened to a few more my more middle class friends?

 

[Lucan]

It is opportunity, hard work, or luck, or a combination of some of all of these. The fact that there are idiots who win millions in the lottery shows that it can be entirely luck.
It is a variation of the old meme that some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them.

https://www.lottoexposed.com/top-7-stupid-lottery-winners/