Should preserved railways 1940s events go ahead this year?

[Trainfan344]

With the current state of affairs in Ukraine, should preserved lines go ahead with the 1940s events?

To me it's a double edged sword. On the one hand it might be seen as insensitive to Ukraine to go ahead with the events

On the other hand 1940s events are some of the biggest and most popular events at preserved railways and a key source of income.

I wonder what other forum contributers think about the situation?

 

[bitzer]

I don't think events like this can be construed as insensitive. 1940s was a totally different time/scenario. With the Jubilee this year many events would also fall under that definition due to the Queen's connection to ww2. It also helps to educate the population what happens in warfare. Best way to support Ukraine currently if you can't go and fight is to boycott any Russian business.

 

[bramling]

With the current state of affairs in Ukraine, should preserved lines go ahead with the 1940s events?

To me it's a double edged sword. On the one hand it might be seen as insensitive to Ukraine to go ahead with the events

On the other hand 1940s events are some of the biggest and most popular events at preserved railways and a key source of income.

I wonder what other forum contributers think about the situation?

Possible a little premature at this point, though the whole Ukraine situation certainly has some alarming parallels to the 1920s and 30s. Equally, history shouldn't be forgotten, not least to allow us all to learn the lessons from it.

I'd say hold fire on cancelling events for now, but certainly something to keep in mind.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Literally anything and everything could be considered insensitive if you tried hard enough. Diesel galas could be considered insensitive to people with asthma, steam galas to those in the world facing homelessness due to rising sea levels. It shouldn’t need stating but the 1939 – 1945 war was a world war and there are always conflicts going on somewhere so why would this year’s events be insensitive to Ukrainians but last year’s not to Yemenis?

 

[Graham H]

Dont forget that in the 1940's we were allied to the SOVIET UNION which included Russia, Ukraine and the multitude of other states in the USSR that are now separate entities in their own right. Now I appreciate that for many less well versed in history, the Soviet Union at a 1940's event can easily be confused with Russia due to the red flag and symbols that were used then and of course Russia was the dominant force within that union but soldiers in that army would have come from any or all of the states.

 

[John Luxton]

With the current state of affairs in Ukraine, should preserved lines go ahead with the 1940s events?

To me it's a double edged sword. On the one hand it might be seen as insensitive to Ukraine to go ahead with the events

On the other hand 1940s events are some of the biggest and most popular events at preserved railways and a key source of income.

I wonder what other forum contributers think about the situation?

Sorry this just sounds like another pc / cancel culture action.

Too many worrying about offending others. If you are offended don't go!

 

[yorkie]

To me it's a double edged sword. On the one hand it might be seen as insensitive to Ukraine to go ahead with the events

I don't think so.

I don't think events like this can be construed as insensitive. 1940s was a totally different time/scenario. With the Jubilee this year many events would also fall under that definition due to the Queen's connection to ww2. It also helps to educate the population what happens in warfare. Best way to support Ukraine currently if you can't go and fight is to boycott any Russian business.

I agree.

 

[DarloRich]

With the current state of affairs in Ukraine, should preserved lines go ahead with the 1940s events?

Yes.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

The War is so long ago, I heard all about it at school, heritage railways have been remembering it for decades.

Perhaps the many difficult years of food rationing that followed it could be recreated, with suitable limited menus in the buffet cars. Something a bit different, perhaps even with early diesels?

 

[Paul Jones 88]

These events are vitally important to generate much needed revenue for heritage railways given the losses sustained during the pandemic.

 

[John Luxton]

These events are vitally important to generate much needed revenue for heritage railways given the losses sustained during the pandemic.

They are good fun. The only one I have attended and been to twice was the "Isle of Man - Island at War" weekend.

It even paid homage to Dad's Army with the U-Boat captain and escort.

This is one of the photos I took: https://www.smugmug.com/app/organiz...-Tramways/Isle-of-Man-Steam-Railway/i-737XFH9

Also I was in a compartment with a 1940s dressed lady who was arrested at Santon station by the Home Guard for being a spy.

It was all good fun!

Yes I know people die in war and there are countless tragedies but until recent years and the "woke" brigade took over the British Blitz Humour continued - but now "Blitz Humour" seems to be frowned on.

I also understand that Crich Tramway Museum also used to run a "Red October Weekend" in which Eastern Bloc trams featured as well as reenactors and eastern European vehicles.

Now I never got to attend these weekends and when I discovered them from online photo postings I also discovered that the Tramway Museum Society had decided not to hold any more.

My political views are rather right of centre and in the real world I see Communism / Socialism as a major evil. But to be honest I wasn't offended by the idea of these weekends and being very interested in history would have likeed to attend them.

I also recall reading that East Lancs Railway received some slating in the mainstream media a few years ago because some 1940s re-enactors turned up dressed as SS Officers and someone as Hermann Goering.

Why?

This sort of thing never used to offend - why does it do so now?

I am sure we will get to the stage if we are not careful of banning Roman and Norman enactments.

It is all very sad and makes me very reactionary to those who wish to deprive of recreating our history.

I also doubt comedies such as "Dad's Army" and "Allo Allo" would ever be made again.

Hence I am probably perceived as being right-wing extremist when in reality I was just a normal Tory until a couple of years ago and wokeism took hold.

 

[reddragon]

The GWsR have cancelled their wartime event today

CANCELLATION OF FORTHCOMING ‘WAR IN THE COTSWOLDS WEEKEND’ AND SCHOOLS EVACUATION DAYS​

We are all aware of the terrible events unfolding in Ukraine. There appears to be no immediate indication that the conflict will end soon. Daily news of death and destruction on a wide scale have led us to consider whether it is appropriate to continue to promote and hold our War in the Cotswolds Weekend this year. After giving the matter considerable thought the Board are unanimously of the view that we should cancel the event this year. The event was intended to be a joyful weekend and that conflicts deeply with what we now see happening. We believe that to continue would send completely the wrong message to our potential visitors and the wider public. For the same reason, we have decided that the Schools Evacuation days should be suspended until the middle of the year, or until the situation in Ukraine settles down. We realise that a considerable amount of work has gone into planning and organising these events this year, and that many of you will be disappointed by our decision. However, we have an obligation to make what we believe to be the right decision for our railway, and we are satisfied that in this case we have done so. The weekend of 23rd / 24th April will revert to a standard purple timetable. The Board, GWSR Plc​

 

[mjc]

The GWsR have cancelled their wartime event today

I think that’s really disappointing. Barely a year goes by without conflict somewhere in the world, and that these events presumably went ahead whilst war was fought in Afghanistan, Iraq, conflict in Israel and other places. I have to wonder whether the difference is geography or race.
An event that commemorates part of our history ought to be able to continue, it doesn’t have to focus on the harsh realities but perhaps try to avoid triumphalism and focus on the lives in the area at the time. With invading other lands being a sensitive subject right now should we cancel the Commonwealth Games??

 

[Vespa]

I don't think any 1940s event should be cancelled, you can't really conflate both events, otherwise you would be cancelling for every conflict, Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq, Sudan, Ireland, Somalia etc where do you draw the line ?

Best thing is to let it go ahead and have an appeal fundraising stand somewhere for clothes, medicine, children's toys and donations for Ukraine, the event if anything could be used to raise awareness of Ukrainian conflict and what it was like in Britain in wartime where we had to struggle with bombings and starvation, these things have been largely forgotten by today's generation and needs to be reminded again.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I don't think any 1940s event should be cancelled, you can't really conflate both events, otherwise you would be cancelling for every conflict, Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq, Sudan, Ireland, Somalia etc where do you draw the line ?

Best thing is to let it go ahead and have an appeal fundraising stand somewhere for clothes, medicine, children's toys and donations for Ukraine, the event if anything could be used to raise awareness of Ukrainian conflict and what it was like in Britain in wartime where we had to struggle with bombings and starvation, these things have been largely forgotten by today's generation and needs to be reminded again.

Yes. I cannot help thinking it is actually important that these events *DO* go ahead. Rather than being insensitive I think it is a chance for people to see what living under the shadow of war is like.

 

[John Luxton]

The GWsR have cancelled their wartime event today

Lefty / Woke nonsense. I had planned on visiting the G&WR this year as I had not been for a few years. Not particularly intending to attend this event but I will now add G&WR to the list of businesses I have built up over the years that I refuse to spend my money with due to political / ethical or other considerations. Shame really but I have my principals

 

[D6968]

Lefty / Woke nonsense. I had planned on visiting the G&WR this year as I had not been for a few years. Not particularly intending to attend this event but I will now add G&WR to the list of businesses I have built up over the years that I refuse to spend my money with due to political / ethical or other considerations. Shame really but I have my principals

They obviously have theirs as well don’t they?
FFS surely there’s some middle ground somewhere?

 

[AlterEgo]

Yes. I cannot help thinking it is actually important that these events *DO* go ahead. Rather than being insensitive I think it is a chance for people to see what living under the shadow of war is like.

A day out at a preserved railway does that?

Re-enactment days are a very English way of dressing up and remembering our successes, they are not in any way a semblance of living under wartime conditions.

The organisers rightly believe the event is completely frivolous in light of actual war going on elsewhere. It’s up to them if they want to cancel it.

 

[Vespa]

A day out at a preserved railway does that?

Re-enactment days are a very English way of dressing up and remembering our successes, they are not in any way a semblance of living under wartime conditions.

The organisers rightly believe the event is completely frivolous in light of actual war going on elsewhere. It’s up to them if they want to cancel it.

That is your opinion of course, I don't think it's frivolous at all, it is after all a historical renactment, if you don't remember your history you will forget your future.

We came very close to losing the war several times, retreat from Dunkirk, Battle of Britain, Atlantic Convoy... We pulled through, it is right we should remember our victories, they are hard won, it is worrying that young people today don't know anything about it or have some vague idea, this can be blamed on the education system that places more empathisis on trendy subject with history replaced with left wing propaganda.

Such events helps to educate and bring history to life.

I've served and wore the uniform, I still visit such events, regimental museums, Normandy and Belgium, I take my neice and nephew to them to educate them as they are the future custodian of this country long after we have passed on.

 

[birchesgreen]

If you don't want to be "insensitive" about holding a war related event because a war is on you'd never hold any of these events at all. There is always a war on somewhere, its not brown people being bombed this time but it doesn't make it any different. Or shouldn't anyway.

 

[AlterEgo]

That is your opinion of course, I don't think it's frivolous at all, it is after all a historical renactment, if you don't remember your history you will forget your future.

It’s volunteers wearing costumes and people playing swing music, not an escape room game from a sinking submarine in the North Atlantic. This country lives on the fumes of two world wars. Yes it is nice and fun to go to re-enactments and have tea and cake but they are not serious events.

We came very close to losing the war several times, retreat from Dunkirk, Battle of Britain, Atlantic Convoy... We pulled through, it is right we should remember our victories, they are hard won, it is worrying that young people today don't know anything about it or have some vague idea, this can be blamed on the education system that places more empathisis on trendy subject with history replaced with left wing propaganda.

Such events helps to educate and bring history to life.

If it was truly merely educational it would have *increased* relevance with a war on Europe. These are frivolous and fun events for all the family, not the Imperial War Museum on tour. That’s why the organisers cancelled it, because they felt what they had planned didn’t strike an appropriate tone. This sort of grumpy argument about “forgetting history” is in the same league as thinking statues are some sort of instructional textbook and must be saved at all costs as a “historical record!”

I've served and wore the uniform, I still visit such events, regimental museums, Normandy and Belgium, I take my neice and nephew to them to educate them as they are the future custodian of this country long after we have passed on.

Yes and that’s quite a bit different to going to a steam railway for a day out. The GWSR explain in their own release it was supposed to be a “joyful weekend”!

If you don't want to be "insensitive" about holding a war related event because a war is on you'd never hold any of these events at all. There is always a war on somewhere, its not brown people being bombed this time but it doesn't make it any different. Or shouldn't anyway.

Lots of dog whistling about how war in Ukraine is “among people who look like us”, and we suddenly care and have solidarity with them.

 

[OuterDistant]

If you don't want to be "insensitive" about holding a war related event because a war is on you'd never hold any of these events at all. There is always a war on somewhere, its not brown people being bombed this time but it doesn't make it any different. Or shouldn't anyway.

This, in spades.

 

[mjc]

Lots of dog whistling about how war in Ukraine is “among people who look like us”, and we suddenly care and have solidarity with them.

Can you explain the dog whistling reference please, I don’t get it.

 

[Graham H]

Hold the event and send the profits to Ukraine. Allow the public to decide whether to support the event or not

 

[Vespa]

It’s volunteers wearing costumes and people playing swing music, not an escape room game from a sinking submarine in the North Atlantic. This country lives on the fumes of two world wars. Yes it is nice and fun to go to re-enactments and have tea and cake but they are not serious events.

If it was truly merely educational it would have *increased* relevance with a war on Europe. These are frivolous and fun events for all the family, not the Imperial War Museum on tour. That’s why the organisers cancelled it, because they felt what they had planned didn’t strike an appropriate tone. This sort of grumpy argument about “forgetting history” is in the same league as thinking statues are some sort of instructional textbook and must be saved at all costs as a “historical record!”

Yes and that’s quite a bit different to going to a steam railway for a day out. The GWSR explain in their own release it was supposed to be a “joyful weekend”!


Lots of dog whistling about how war in Ukraine is “among people who look like us”, and we suddenly care and have solidarity with them.

You strike a very bitter left wing viewpoint to me.


I still think the War events should still go ahead regardless.

Do explain to me what dog whistling is ?

Hold the event and send the profits to Ukraine. Allow the public to decide whether to support the event or not

This.

I couldn't put it better, let the public decide not a bitter anti patriotic minority.

 

[AlterEgo]

You strike a very bitter left wing viewpoint to me.

I am not bitter, nor am I left wing. But it is up to you to choose to dismiss it which only reflects on you and not me.

I still think the War events should still go ahead regardless.

Perhaps they should, but it is the railway’s choice to cancel it and as I’ve noted they intended it to be a fun and joyous dress up event, not some grim reminder of the actuality of war.

I couldn't put it better, let the public decide not a bitter anti patriotic minority.

Elsewhere on this forum I am accused of having right wing views so I am happy to take this indirect ad hominem as evidence of balance. I’ll remind you again it’s the railway - the organisation who decided to have a wartime recreation event in the first place (!) - who decided to cancel the “joyful” event, not some imagined “anti-patriotic minority”. It’s their decision to take.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Do explain to me what dog whistling is ?

Doesn't sound an overly complimentary phrase!

Believe that "Dog whistling" in the context used upthread is most often intended to mean a subtly phrased, usually political, message that appears innocuous to the general population but actually has a special meaning to a particular sub-group / target audience.

(In a similar way that actual dog whistles are inaudible to most humans but can, of course, be heard by dogs).

 

[ExRes]

Just a few random thoughts

If any organisation chooses to cancel an event then that's down to them, they don't need to put it to the vote on internet forums

Re-enactments are not "a very English way of dressing up and remembering our successes", they are a global pastime, particularly popular in the US

I don't seem to remember people calling off St Patricks Day events while the IRA was killing and maiming innocent people

Dog whistling is a waste of time, giving them treats is far more effective

 

[Vespa]

Doesn't sound an overly complimentary phrase!

Believe that "Dog whistling" in the context used upthread is most often intended to mean a subtly phrased, usually political, message that appears innocuous to the general population but actually has a special meaning to a particular sub-group / target audience.

(In a similar way that actual dog whistles are inaudible to most humans but can, of course, be heard by dogs).

When you put it like that, it certainly doesn't sound complimentry at all, certainly a condescending phrase by the sound of it.

 

[Skymonster]

The GWsR have cancelled their wartime event today

Buffoons - it’s a “War in the Cotswolds“ event and last time I checked Ukraine was nowhere near the Cotswolds. Next time GWsR whinges about needing to raise funds, I’ll remember they cancelled what could have been a good money-generating event and I’ll have less sympathy for their cause.

As to the wider matter, we still need to remember what happened and not hide from it, despite the current skirmish a quarter of a world away. I sincerely hope the same wokishness won’t pervade the events planned to mark the 40th anniversary of the Falklands War (admittedly not railway related) which are also due to take place this year.