Should there be a review of the timetable and fares on the London to Brighton main line?

[yorksrob]

Moderator note: Split from

Current (autumn ‘24) passenger numbers

Another article (from the Guardian) suggesting that numbers in London are around 90% of pre pandemic, although it isn’t quite clear where they’re sourcing those figures. My commute sees lower numbers than 2019, anecdotally, albeit some services are busy. The longer haul trains I work are well...

www.railforums.co.uk

I still find it hard to believe that there isn't a direct train from Redhill to Brighton, but that seems to have been the case for a while !

 

[A S Leib]

I still find it hard to believe that there isn't a direct train from Redhill to Brighton, but that seems to have been the case for a while !

Given the extent to which Southern is a London and Brighton operator, it also seems strange that apart from Sundays, there's only a few trains per day branded as Southern between them.

 

[yorksrob]

Given the extent to which Southern is a London and Brighton operator, it also seems strange that apart from Sundays, there's only a few trains per day branded as Southern between them.

Yes. I expect it goes hand in hand with "Gatwick Express" becoming the Brighton express

The world turned upsidedown !

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Yes. I expect it goes hand in hand with "Gatwick Express" becoming the Brighton express

The world turned upsidedown !

I still think that’s an insane decision. At least scrap the premium Gatwick express fairs to Brighton. The trains must be carting round fresh air south of Gatwick.

 

[Trainman40083]

I still think that’s an insane decision. At least scrap the premium Gatwick express fairs to Brighton. The trains must be carting round fresh air south of Gatwick.

I guess that depends upon whether visitors to Gatwick Airport know there are different fares, or pulled into thinking the premium fare is the only fare.

 

[yorksrob]

I still think that’s an insane decision. At least scrap the premium Gatwick express fairs to Brighton. The trains must be carting round fresh air south of Gatwick.

I'm not based South enough to know too much about it, but I remember that a Network card London - Brighton ticket was valid on it, so that's not to bad.

But I was shocked and horrified when they replaced 8DIG's on the express with slidy-door thameslinky things.

 

[Minstral25]

I still find it hard to believe that there isn't a direct train from Redhill to Brighton, but that seems to have been the case for a while !

Direct all day regular services was removed in 2007 or 8 (IIRC) and evenings and weekends in 2016 (preparation for 2018 timetable change). The first was because the Arun Valley services were diverted through Redhill instead of Brighton services. The 2018 change was to make the Redhill route essentially a branch to Three Bridges rather than part of the main line.

 

[yorksrob]

Direct all day regular services was removed in 2007 or 8 (IIRC) and evenings and weekends in 2016 (preparation for 2018 timetable change). The first was because the Arun Valley services were diverted through Redhill instead of Brighton services. The 2018 change was to make the Redhill route essentially a branch to Three Bridges rather than part of the main line.

Thanks, that's very informative !

 

[JonathanH]

Direct all day regular services was removed in 2007 or 8 (IIRC) and evenings and weekends in 2016 (preparation for 2018 timetable change). The first was because the Arun Valley services were diverted through Redhill instead of Brighton services. The 2018 change was to make the Redhill route essentially a branch to Three Bridges rather than part of the main line.

Redhill and Brighton were disconnected earlier than that.

The Victoria to Brighton semi-fast was removed in May 2000 when it was decided to make the Arun Valley half hourly. The Watford service picked up the stops between Gatwick and Brighton in its place, but not Redhill. The next change was to divert the hourly daytime Thameslink service away from Redhill from May 2001 because of unreliability. From then on, Redhill and Brighton were only linked by a handful of peak trains, then evenings and Sundays. As you say, since May 2018, Redhill has been treated as a branch, which is good for London capacity, but not for connectivity.

They were long gone by 2007, at which point the Arun Valley services started to split in Horsham.

I still find it hard to believe that there isn't a direct train from Redhill to Brighton, but that seems to have been the case for a while !

A function of it being operationally appropriate not to have trains cross over at both Stoats Nest Junction, and Balcombe Tunnel Junction, and the awkwardness of having to path a slower train in front of, and behind, services on the main line.

It is a shame that the connection can't be maintained southbound in the morning peak when there is a relatively sparse service into Brighton. Prior to 2018, the priority did seem to be to favour connectivity at this time. There is a Redhill calling Thameslink service in the northbound morning peak that starts back from Haywards Heath.

 

[yorksrob]

Redhill and Brighton were disconnected earlier than that.

The Victoria to Brighton semi-fast was removed in May 2000 when it was decided to make the Arun Valley half hourly. The Watford service was extended to Brighton in its place, having previously terminated at Gatwick. The next change was to divert the hourly daytime Thameslink service away from Redhill from May 2001 because of unreliability. From then on, Redhill and Brighton were only linked by a handful of peak trains, then evenings and Sundays. As you say, since May 2018, Redhill has been treated as a branch, which is good for London capacity, but not for connectivity.

They were long gone by 2007, at which point the Arun Valley services started to split in Horsham.


A function of it being operationally appropriate not to have trains cross over at both Stoats Nest Junction, and Balcombe Tunnel Junction, and the awkwardness of having to path a slower train in front of, and behind, services on the main line.

It is a shame that the connection can't be maintained southbound in the morning peak when there is a relatively sparse service into Brighton. Prior to 2018, the priority did seem to be to favour connectivity at this time. There is a Redhill calling Thameslink service in the northbound morning peak that starts back from Haywards Heath.

I remember using the Victoria - Brighton semi-fast. It was still CIG operated.

 

[stuu]

I still think that’s an insane decision. At least scrap the premium Gatwick express fairs to Brighton. The trains must be carting round fresh air south of Gatwick.

There isn't a premium for using it all the way to Brighton, there's only one price offered regardless of route (I did only check peak times next week, there may well be some anomalies)

 

[JonathanH]

There isn't a premium for using it all the way to Brighton, there's only one price offered regardless of route (I did only check peak times next week, there may well be some anomalies)

There certainly isn't from Redhill to Brighton.

Some advance fares from London to Brighton are AP Southern only, which means journey planners don't offer then for journeys using Gatwick Express branded trains from Victoria to Brighton.

There are "Thameslink only" walk up tickets from Gatwick to Brighton, which are the cheapest fares, which again won't be offered by journey planners on the Gatwick Express branded trains, but they wouldn't be offered by journey planners on Southern branded trains either.

There aren't any "Not Gatwick Express" fares from Brighton to London though, as you say.

There will, no doubt, be a review of fares as Project Oval is implemented on the route.