Should there be a total ban on autofill for Railcards on online ticket sales

[fandroid]

We get regular cases on the prosecutions sub-forum of people who are in trouble with expired Railcards but where the online ticket seller had automatically ticked the Railcard box, even in cases where the ticket seller's app held the Railcard! Should there be a total moratorium on this autofill feature until ticket sellers come up with a solution that doesn't regularly leave some of its customers in the doo-doo?

 

[superkopite]

No, there should not be a ban. But there should be more pressure on app providers to do basic due diligence checks to see if a Railcard is still valid, especially if said railcard is housed within the same app.

It is extremely easy to do

 

[SteveM70]

Yes there should, but only with the clear agreement from all involved that the industry will provide a suitable long term verification solution by an agreed date

 

[Narrowgauge725]

No, there should not be a ban. But there should be more pressure on app providers to do basic due diligence checks to see if a Railcard is still valid, especially if said railcard is housed within the same app.

It is extremely easy to do

The problem comes when you don’t have a railcard but book a journey a considerable distance in advance with the intention of buying the railcard the day before you travel so that you maximise its use.

Surely those who manage to buy tickets can check they have a valid railcard as they should do.

 

[wilbers]

The problem comes when you don’t have a railcard but book a journey a considerable distance in advance with the intention of buying the railcard the day before you travel so that you maximise its use.

Surely those who manage to buy tickets can check they have a valid railcard as they should do.

Easy to solve - put a warning message that has to be clicked on saying that a railcard MUST be bought before travel (and it needs to be the type of railcard selected).

 

[AdamWW]

The problem comes when you don’t have a railcard but book a journey a considerable distance in advance with the intention of buying the railcard the day before you travel so that you maximise its use.

Surely those who manage to buy tickets can check they have a valid railcard as they should do.

Shouldn't be hard to have a pop-up saying "Railcard selected - make sure you have the appropriate railcard during travel" and the option to supress similar warnings in future if you want to do without them.

And one which wouldn't appear if you had the appropriate railcard held within the app.

 

[185]

A specific pop up saying eg "I hold a Job Centre Plus Discount Card and will present it when checked - click OK" mentioning which railcard is selected is essential.

But I agree, if this is not possible, trainline et al using autofill railcard should never happen.

 

[Haywain]

And one which wouldn't appear if you had the appropriate railcard held within the app.

So because I use a plastic railcard I have to put up with this pop-up message nonsense? I actually find it very useful that apps remember that I have a railcard.

 

[cool110]

A simple improvement would be for the sites to ask if you want to save the railcard and if so its expiry date.

 

[Brissle Girl]

One answer could be that apps have a facility for you to optionally populate a field with the expiry date of your railcard. If you use it, it will then warn you if you try to book a railcard ticket when expired. If you don’t, your problem to remember.

Edit: seems like @cool110 posted the same idea simultaneously.

 

[SteveM70]

And the other quick fix is to resequenced the railcards in the drop down menu so that those with similar names aren't consecutive (or rename them so no two are similar but that may be more difficult)

Then we might see less of the "I have 18-25 but my finger slipped and I selected 16-18" stuff

 

[spyinthesky]

I would be more willing to enter the expiry date of held railcard which would prevent the forgetful and that the ticket I am buying is for me.
A line has to be drawn somewhere and wouldn’t suit all. Protecting the honest should be a priority.

 

[Adam Williams]

So because I use a plastic railcard I have to put up with this pop-up message nonsense? I actually find it very useful that apps remember that I have a railcard.

No, we have to treat users like idiots who cannot take personal responsibility for their actions, seemingly.

I count at least four areas in Trainline's app which you have to ignore to accidentally book discounted tickets - not to mention after booking when you load the PDF or view the ticket inside the app to check that you've booked the right train and right ticket type (you do check, right?). I'm sympathetic, but honestly - there are going to be times in life where you need to read and understand what you're actually buying or signing up to. This applies to young people (who are going to have tenancy agreements, employment contracts, credit/financial arrangements, mortgages to agree ahead of them) arguably even moreso than older people. The world isn't going to babysit people through these processes.

 

[fandroid]

I'm not in favour of pop-up messages to annoy all those who don't need reminding. Just get rid of the autofill until a technical solution is found. The issue almost entirely hurts young people who can be under immense financial and other pressures.

The sites I buy from - the Forum's site, and SWR. Neither have autofill and it doesn't bother me although I use a Railcard on almost every journey.

The mild inconvenience is well outweighed by the serious impact it has on a lot of people (we will only be seeing a tiny minority). And the impact is a lottery too, depending on when that fatal request to see the Railcard occurs, whether it's after a few days or a few months.

The industry could solve this swiftly, if enough pressure was applied.


The existing question on the ticket sites that's implied (not explicitly asked) is "do you have a Railcard"?

These people answer that by saying, "yes I do".

What's wrong is that the Railcard has expired.

Some sellers know when the card has expired, because they sold it! But they still autofill, brainlessly.

 

[AdamWW]

So because I use a plastic railcard I have to put up with this pop-up message nonsense? I actually find it very useful that apps remember that I have a railcard.

Personally I would be very happy to have a pop up that I saw once and then chose not to see again, if it means that other people are less likely to end up being charged large sums of money for making a mistake that has cost the railway £30 at most.

 

[Haywain]

the serious impact it has on a lot of people (we will only be seeing a tiny minority).

We may only see a tiny minority, but even with the apparently unseen majority, it will still be a minority of railcard holders. Sadly, it's the way of this forum to look for solutions for the 1 or 2 percent.

 

[Adam Williams]

No, there should not be a ban. But there should be more pressure on app providers to do basic due diligence checks to see if a Railcard is still valid, especially if said railcard is housed within the same app.

I would agree with this (and indeed, have implemented logic similar to this).

Just get rid of the autofill until a technical solution is found

This isn't a technical problem though, and there is no easy, frictionless technical solution that solves this for everyone.

On the forum's ticketing site, I can do this for some railcards:



But:

• Only if you use a digital railcard
• Only if you've bought it from Raileasy
• Only if it's not a disabled railcard (RDG won't let TPRs sell them)
• Only if it's not a veterans' railcard (RDG won't let TPRs sell them)
• Only if it's not a HM Forces railcard (RDG won't let TPRs sell them)
• Only if it's not a JobCentre Plus discount card

etc etc etc

There is not going to be a universal technical solution to this.

 

[Buzby]

The Forum’s TrainSplit always shows no Railcard when I log-in. After I select it and plan the journey, the itinerary goes to great lengths to explain I must be carrying my Railcard for each service used. Strangely, with a total journey of just under 1000 miles, I was asked for my card once - although my ticket was scanned 8 times at barriers or on train.

For all the complaints of being unluckily caught, it does seem that they are targeting traveller types for proof?

 

[Krokodil]

making a mistake that has cost the railway £30 at most.

If the person was never entitled to the railcard in the first place then the cost will be a lot more. Funny how it's often the JCP railcard which is misused, not one offering a smaller discount.

does seem that they are targeting traveller types for proof?

I don't understand what this means

 

[SteveM70]

Funny how it's often the JCP railcard which is misused, not one offering a smaller discount.

Absolutely, but equally we'd never hear form people who use a railcard with a smaller discount to the one they legitimately hold

 

[Haywain]

I don't understand what this means

I think that the poster is suggesting that young people are being targeted. It would be true to say that a large percentage of the cases we see revolve around 16-17 Savers and 16-25 Railcards, but I think the targeting will be based on either appearing too old to hold the railcard or the fact that experience shows that younger people forget to renew the railcards. I have to say that if I was checking tickets anyone presenting a ticket with a JCP discount would immediately prompt a closer look as they are really not that common, and are only issued for a very limited period.

 

[AdamWW]

If the person was never entitled to the railcard in the first place then the cost will be a lot more. Funny how it's often the JCP railcard which is misused, not one offering a smaller discount.

Yep. Totally different kettle of fish. And I don't dispute that lots of people try it on like that.

But the penalty seems to be the same whether someone was entitled to the railcard or not.

(In fact by ignoring the original tickets bought, the person using a JCP railcard they aren't entitled to ends up paying less overall than someone who forgot to renew their 16-25 railcard).

 

[superkopite]

There is not going to be a universal technical solution to this.

There might be. The first time the user adds a railcard to a request, ask them if they want to enter the expiry date and be reminded when it is no longer valid. Don't make this mandatory, but give users the option.

 

[Adam Williams]

There might be. The first time the user adds a railcard to a request, ask them if they want to enter the expiry date and remind you when it is no longer valid. Don't make this mandatory, but give users the option.

If I have an auto-renewing railcard, why should I need to waste my time updating the expiry date every year to get basic functionality to work in my preferred ticketing app?

 

[Haywain]

No, we have to treat users like idiots who cannot take personal responsibility for their actions, seemingly.

Perhaps we need a tick box on the initial search page asking if the user will take personal responsibility for their actions!!

 

[superkopite]

If I have an auto-renewing railcard, why should I need to waste my time updating the expiry date every year to get basic functionality to work in my preferred ticketing app?

Sorry, I wasn't really referring to apps where the Railcard is housed locally. That is an easy issue to solve. But in the case where the railcard is bought through the Railcard app and the tickets are being bought through a third-party app, this is a simple solution that gives the user control

 

[Bletchleyite]

If I have an auto-renewing railcard, why should I need to waste my time updating the expiry date every year to get basic functionality to work in my preferred ticketing app?

Because it's the lesser of two evils.

What Railcards renew automatically? I've always had to actively do it.

 

[spag23]

Perhaps the booking could feature:
"Tick one of these boxes":
1. I have the correct Railcard for the discount applied, and its Expiry Date is **/**/**** [already populated if previously declared, or known to the seller]
2. I will ensure that on the dates of travel, I will have purchased the correct Railcard.
3. The ticket is for someone else, whom I have told that they must have the correct Railcard on the dates of travel.

 

[Deafdoggie]

To be honest, what annoys me far more is the "railcard must apply to all passengers" so I have to do multiple bookings with & without railcards. What can't I book 3 people on a 2together railcard, where clearly only two tickets will be discounted?

 

[fandroid]

The problem comes when you don’t have a railcard but book a journey a considerable distance in advance with the intention of buying the railcard the day before you travel so that you maximise its use.

Surely those who manage to buy tickets can check they have a valid railcard as they should do.

As the original proposal here was to stop autofill of the Railcard box, then implementing that would make zero difference to your early booking scenario.