The HEX will still be here in 2028. Heathrow owns the tunnels and it makes them money.
Perhaps, but good news for the majority from "the muff" who wouldn't have been using Old Oak anyway. On balance, the Old Oak stop just isn't justifiable.
I know. The point I was answering was whether or not HeX would stop at OOC, not whether or not HeX would continue as should have been clear from the quotes to which I was replying.
One of the few is Munich, which has two all stations S-Bahn routes to the Hauptbahnhof each taking about 45 minutes.
Better connectivity to where?
There are loads of airports with poor suburban metro type links, or no link..!
Would anybody be able to illuminate this by providing figures on the most comparable existing situation- is there a way of seeing what proportion of people, approaching London on a GEML service into Liverpool Street, change onto the Elizabeth Line change at Stratford, rather than Liverpool Street, for onward journeys into central London?*
Yes that is true thank you.
This is a key point that many are forgetting. HS2 is just a piece of infrastructure like HS1 was. Services will run over it and then run on existing infrastructure. So people going from say Swindon to Swinton (Manchester) may well find it easier and quicker to change at OOC than via other routes.
Depends if the Overground Station at OOC is built, that would offer connectivity that Paddington simply doesn't, whilst those wanting to change onto the Tube can simply continue to PAD on GWR.
Although it is now making lot less money than decade ago. Back in 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019 etc HEX consistently had 500k-550k passengers per month (per ORR passenger usage figures). Now fallen to 300k-350k passengers per month.
Allow passengers to use HS2 as a metro service from Old Oak Common to Euston, and you help people traveling from the South West of England to North London by also stopping the GWML service at Old Oak Common. It may add 1-2 mintues to HS2 journeys by having more people interchanging with HS2. But according to your theory, the more connectivity the better.
HS1 domestic is low frequency and Stratford International isn't well connected. These arguments seem to contradict your view for the need for a high frequency fast service between Reading and Old Oak Common when people could otherwise just double back at Paddington.
HS1 Domestic is a rather different proposition to the rump of HS2. HS1 Domestic is a comparatively low intensity, heavily loaded, service. HS2 will not be, it will have vast surplus capacity.
I wasn’t as clear as I could have been! My point was in reference to the HS2 documents which I referred to in my post #102 which tried to talk up the importance of enabling people from GW land changing to HS2. Thus I was referring to the completed HS2 routes to Manchester and Leeds rather than trains running on existing routes once they reach the end of HS2.
I dispute the size of the potential market as suggested by some of the posters here. In my post # #102 I used the data available in the ORR’s Origin and Destination Matrix to quantity some of the flows. The daily flows between stations on the GW main line and Manchester, Leeds and Liverpool are seen in the table below. Note that if the daily flows are less than 10 no figures are shown, but to avoid any suggestions that I am biasing the numbers I have assumed a flow of 5 per day.
| Reading | Didcot | Swindon | Chippenham | Bath Spa | Bristol TM | Bristol PWay | |
| Manchester Picc | 85 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 19 | 89 | 23 |
| Liverpool LS | 16 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 16 | 5 |
| Leeds | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 37 | 10 |
Allow passengers to use HS2 as a metro service from Old Oak Common to Euston, and you help people traveling from the South West of England to North London by also stopping the GWML service at Old Oak Common. It may add 1-2 mintues to HS2 journeys by having more people interchanging with HS2. But according to your theory, the more connectivity the better.
- compared to Swindon to Swinton - I think the flow from Swindon to Paris would be non-zero. This may be the quickest way to St Pancras for HS1 from Swindon, or at least come close.. There may be a lot of empty seats between OOC and Euston given the Crossrail connection.I think you are misunderstanding. I am suggesting people could change from the GWML at Old Oak Common to use the spare seats on the HS2 services to/from Euston. Euston has the Northern line branches and the Victoria line (from which one can go to Finsbury Park to change to the Picadily Line, Great Northern metro and Thameslink services) so could be a useful link between the GWML and North London.
I don't get the connection. I was speaking about a OOC-Euston shuttle, if there was excess capacity. There isn't the ability to double-back from Euston, nothing else shadows HS2 from OOC-Euston (like Crossrail/GWML fasts) - so i think it's moot. If talking about St Pancras - Stratford, yes it's only 4tph off peak (7tph peak) but still a very nippy journey. Intl is badly connected, admittedly.HS1 domestic is low frequency and Stratford International isn't well connected. These arguments seem to contradict your view for the need for a high frequency fast service between Reading and Old Oak Common when people could otherwise just double back at Paddington.
When something can be done to help the minority at the cost of the mojority, ones view seems to be very much affected if one would be in the mojority losing or the minority gaining doesn't it?
Running shuttles on HS2 would eat capacity and offer a less frequent service than letting everyone use any train, like stopping some but not all GWML services would.
No, I think I'm not - not only does OOC-EUS add the tube and Euston suburban for those (eg) ex-Swindon passengers.., it also possibly is faster for KGX/STP and so HS1 to Paris. Another connection..
Unlike the situation on the GWML fast lines, there is functionally no capacity limitation between Euston and OOC, given that the bulk of the HS2 scheme has been axed.
Nobody talked about Paddington-OOC shuttles on spare capacity. You're conflating two different things.
Bit in bold.....
Yes.
You have just made the case for my suggestion for allowing GWML passengers to use standard HS2 services to get to Euston (if fast GWML stop at Old Oak Common).