Should we see more welfare officers.

[Pompey00]

Do stations need more Trespass/welfare officers to possibly help prevent more suicides and also antisocial behaviour.

 

[zwk500]

In my experience the Carlisle/Diamond Security people don't really do anything. I'd be all for having properly trained and motivated individuals on platforms to help, but I don't think agency bouncers is the right solution.

 

[TJM]

Do they or can they actually do anything? They're neither trained as security officers or healthcare professionals, I see lots on the South Western Railway network who just seem to hang around all day doing nothing (while presumably pushing up the cost of fares)?

 

[43066]

In my experience the Carlisle/Diamond Security people don't really do anything. I'd be all for having properly trained and motivated individuals on platforms to help, but I don't think agency bouncers is the right solution.

Agreed. People working for Ontrak standing on platforms staring into their phones aren’t what is needed. I’d far rather see them replaced with better trained/motivated people.

Sadly I doubt there’s going to be any budget for this kind of thing going forward.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Do they or can they actually do anything? They're neither trained as security officers or healthcare professionals, I see lots on the South Western Railway network who just seem to hang around all day doing nothing (while presumably pushing up the cost of fares)?

Oh yes, they undoubtedly do something, such as enforcing the ban on railway photography. I had a most unpleasant encounter at Pokesdown recently when a Network Rail Trespass and Welfare Officer broke off from looking at his phone (whilst he and his colleague were standing next to a passenger lighting a cigarette) to instruct me that taking photographs was prohibited. (This was me taking a general reference shot from well behind the platform edge whilst changing trains. There were no people included in my intended shot.)

Upon my querying whether normal photography was banned he helpfully rang his (Network Rail?) supervisor and confirmed that it was essential to go to Bournemouth Station and apply for an official permit first.

 

[bramling]

Oh yes, they undoubtedly do something, such as enforcing the ban on railway photography. I had a most unpleasant encounter at Pokesdown recently when a Network Rail Trespass and Welfare Officer broke off from looking at his phone (whilst he and his colleague were standing next to a passenger lighting a cigarette) to instruct me that taking photographs was prohibited. (This was me taking a general reference shot from well behind the platform edge whilst changing trains. There were no people included in my intended shot.)

Upon my querying whether normal photography was banned he helpfully rang his (Network Rail?) supervisor and confirmed that it was essential to go to Bournemouth Station and apply for an official permit first.

Nice to know that our money is being wisely spent here…

 

[43066]

Oh yes, they undoubtedly do something, such as enforcing the ban on railway photography. I had a most unpleasant encounter at Pokesdown recently when a Network Rail Trespass and Welfare Officer broke off from looking at his phone (whilst he and his colleague were standing next to a passenger lighting a cigarette) to instruct me that taking photographs was prohibited. (This was me taking a general reference shot from well behind the platform edge whilst changing trains. There were no people included in my intended shot.)

Upon my querying whether normal photography was banned he helpfully rang his (Network Rail?) supervisor and confirmed that it was essential to go to Bournemouth Station and apply for an official permit first.

That sounds ridiculously overzealous and worth reporting.

If you’re taking photos common sense applies; such as making yourself known to station staff, and perhaps not doing things like standing on fast line platforms where nothing stops. But your description just sounds like someone on a power trip, to be honest.

 

[3rd rail land]

Do they or can they actually do anything? They're neither trained as security officers or healthcare professionals, I see lots on the South Western Railway network who just seem to hang around all day doing nothing (while presumably pushing up the cost of fares)?

On SWR all I've seen them do is shout at people to stand behind the yellow line if they are the wrong side of it. That said I have seen the occasional passenger ask for information regarding their journey and the officer has answered their question(s) but that of course won't be in their job description.

Must be a really dull job standing around on platforms all day doing very little for presumably not much money. Can't be pleasant in winter either. Have the presence of these officers actually been proven to reduce accidents or fatalities? In all honesty I'd rather they be done away with and the money be spent resolving the dispute the Dft/TOCs are having with the unions.

 

[the sniper]

In my experience the Carlisle/Diamond Security people don't really do anything. I'd be all for having properly trained and motivated individuals on platforms to help, but I don't think agency bouncers is the right solution.

Entirely agree. Employing many random untrained people to be paid very little to stand around in a green hi-vi jacket and do very little, not even being able to assist passengers with anything other than the most basic enquiry, is a waste of resources. At least the wheel tappers appeared to be fulfilling some kind of function...

 

[alf]

Who pays for them, the TOC, Network Rail, the NHS ?

Of course ultimately the public pay for them.

It would be sensible to give them tasks like cleaning, litter removal, removing graffiti etc that leg them to keep one eye open for whatever they are supposed to be welfaring.

 

[Pompey00]

They can be good at their job tho.

Oh yes, they undoubtedly do something, such as enforcing the ban on railway photography. I had a most unpleasant encounter at Pokesdown recently when a Network Rail Trespass and Welfare Officer broke off from looking at his phone (whilst he and his colleague were standing next to a passenger lighting a cigarette) to instruct me that taking photographs was prohibited. (This was me taking a general reference shot from well behind the platform edge whilst changing trains. There were no people included in my intended shot.)

Upon my querying whether normal photography was banned he helpfully rang his (Network Rail?) supervisor and confirmed that it was essential to go to Bournemouth Station and apply for an official permit first.

Tbh at that station there’s more to worry about than people taking photos.

 

[DarloRich]

In my experience the Carlisle/Diamond Security people don't really do anything. I'd be all for having properly trained and motivated individuals on platforms to help, but I don't think agency bouncers is the right solution.

They are there for their visibility. Just being seen is apparently often enough to deter people. It creates another subconscious barrier to cross in order to perform the desired act.

Have the presence of these officers actually been proven to reduce accidents or fatalities? In all honesty I'd rather they be done away with and the money be spent resolving the dispute the Dft/TOCs are having with the unions.

I don't know of any public domain information but anecdotally ( from my travel experiance) there has been a fall in these incidents on the WCML south after the deterrence patrols started. The cost wont be that much in the grand scheme of things.

 

[cuccir]

It would be sensible to give them tasks like cleaning, litter removal, removing graffiti etc that leg them to keep one eye open for whatever they are supposed to be welfaring.

Anyone who is trained enough to provide a good welfare service is unlikely to want a job in which 95% of their work is maintenance when they can get other much more pleasant employment.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I was going to ask what these so-called Welfare officers actually do, apart from just standing around staring into space or their phones, but I guess yes, their hi-visibility might make somebody think twice about engaging in anti-social behaviour or jumping...unless they are at Lewisham (in Southeast London) where one just stands around outside Costa looking at nothing

Having said that, I did actually have one walk up to me at Clapham Junction once asking if I was okay? We exchanged quite a few pleasantries as it was clear he was bored and wanted to interact with somebody

 

[Pompey00]

Sometimes they can be lazy but also handy to ask someone if they are ok or need help with anything.

 

[Runningaround]

Security travel the last train from Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth but sit in the carriages furthest (those familiar with the service head for the most distant carriage for peace) from the groups from Newtown and Welshpool who get on at the two carriages closest to the entrances and miss all the fun at the back leaving the driver or conductor to sort out the doors they've pulled open when they sleep past their station. They get off at Machynlleth and go home, the train then goes to Aberystwyth and back as two carriages and picks up the late drinkers coming home. I'm yet to see them deal with anything more than two drunks, more than that and they leave them alone.

 

[KT550]

Oh yes, they undoubtedly do something, such as enforcing the ban on railway photography. I had a most unpleasant encounter at Pokesdown recently when a Network Rail Trespass and Welfare Officer broke off from looking at his phone (whilst he and his colleague were standing next to a passenger lighting a cigarette) to instruct me that taking photographs was prohibited. (This was me taking a general reference shot from well behind the platform edge whilst changing trains. There were no people included in my intended shot.)

Upon my querying whether normal photography was banned he helpfully rang his (Network Rail?) supervisor and confirmed that it was essential to go to Bournemouth Station and apply for an official permit first.

I had a similar event yesterday, also at Pokesdown.

I'd arrived a few minutes before my train and was just taking a few photos with a phone of the station name board and brutalist architecture that POK has to offer.
I was bellowed at from the other end of the platform. The official walked down to where I was standing and informed me photography wasn't permitted and I needed to go to the ticket office for permission, citing various security/terrorism concerns.

As I'd already taken the photos I wanted, I declined to seek further permission and left a few minutes later.

Would a young person taking selfies with station buildings in the background be similarly admonished?

 

[TreacleMiller]

Significant numbers of staff at my TOC, especially recent additions have had a level of training to identify at risk individuals and are encouraged to actively speak to people on platforms etc. That look vulnerable, I've done that personally at least twice since joining the company.

Suicides out on the line and not at a platform tend to be the ones who are committed to doing it. I don't see how anything other than constant cctv coverage of all the track would help.

 

[bramling]

I was going to ask what these so-called Welfare officers actually do, apart from just standing around staring into space or their phones, but I guess yes, their hi-visibility might make somebody think twice about engaging in anti-social behaviour or jumping...unless they are at Lewisham (in Southeast London) where one just stands around outside Costa looking at nothing

Having said that, I did actually have one walk up to me at Clapham Junction once asking if I was okay? We exchanged quite a few pleasantries as it was clear he was bored and wanted to interact with somebody

I must admit I don’t react wonderfully well to being asked “are you ok?”. My immediate instinct is to respond with something which varies between sarcastic and mind your own business, depending on what sort of mood I’m in.

All in all this is a presence we could manage without.

 

[zwk500]

I must admit I don’t react wonderfully well to being asked “are you ok?”. My immediate instinct is to respond with something which varies between sarcastic and mind your own business, depending on what sort of mood I’m in.

All in all this is a presence we could manage without.

I think this is a slightly harsh response to a relatively benign question in an environment where people who are not OK have ended their lives. A gentle 'fine, thanks' is usually enough.

 

[bramling]

I think this is a slightly harsh response to a relatively benign question in an environment where people who are not OK have ended their lives. A gentle 'fine, thanks' is usually enough.

I don’t see it as harsh. I don’t go around imposing upon the business of others, so don’t expect the same in return. To me it introduces an oppressive atmosphere we could well do without.

I would prefer to see any money going into mental health care in general, addressing issues at root rather than a clumsy attempt to scratch the surface.

 

[BenS123]

I must admit all I ever see the officers do at Bournemouth is just shout "Stand back" constantly as trains couple as if theres a major safety risk there (it gets annoying as a regular user!), but at Bournemouth they tend to be alright for trainspotters - maybe because they see it as "not their job" as they rely on gateline staff to enforce this (most of them are extremely happy to allow you in to trainspot and I've never had any problems)

Pokesdown I can see why they'd have them as a local to the Bournemouth area but they really should have other priorities than yellow line and photo enforcement. Most of them though are just either doing nothing or finding reasons to shout at people to be honest

 

[43066]

but at Bournemouth they tend to be alright for trainspotters - maybe because they see it as "not their job" as they rely on gateline staff to enforce this (most of them are extremely happy to allow you in to trainspot and I've never had any problems)

Disappointing that there are staff out there who berate people for spotting/photting. Obviously there’s a need to add sensibly when doing this but most enthusiasts, in my experience, know the score.

People standing too close to trains when attaching and detaching is a potential risk and absolutely does need to be prevented, also to prevent delays. You can’t attach if the person supervising doesn’t has a clear view of the dispatch corridor.

 

[bramling]

Disappointing that there are staff out there who berate people for spotting/photting. Obviously there’s a need to add sensibly when doing this but most enthusiasts, in my experience, know the score.

This gets my back up too. Whilst we all know some enthusiasts can be complete weapons, in my view the bedrock of a civilised society is that people not breaking the law should be left alone to get on with their business (which includes pleasure activities) without the expectation of being hassled or interfered with. So I react rather badly to such interference, especially when it’s from someone on a power trip.

 

[XAM2175]

I don’t see it as harsh. I don’t go around imposing upon the business of others, so don’t expect the same in return. To me it introduces an oppressive atmosphere we could well do without.

I would prefer to see any money going into mental health care in general, addressing issues at root rather than a clumsy attempt to scratch the surface.

Being a git to the person who has zero influence on the amount of funding directed to mental health doesn't really strike me as being of a benefit to anybody at all.

 

[Edsmith]

I must admit I don’t react wonderfully well to being asked “are you ok?”. My immediate instinct is to respond with something which varies between sarcastic and mind your own business, depending on what sort of mood I’m in.

All in all this is a presence we could manage without.

I suspect most people's reaction would be much the same regardless of how well intended the person asking the question might be.

I had a similar event yesterday, also at Pokesdown.

I'd arrived a few minutes before my train and was just taking a few photos with a phone of the station name board and brutalist architecture that POK has to offer.
I was bellowed at from the other end of the platform. The official walked down to where I was standing and informed me photography wasn't permitted and I needed to go to the ticket office for permission, citing various security/terrorism concerns.

As I'd already taken to photos I wanted, I declined to seek further permission and left a few minutes later.

Would a young person taking selfies with station buildings in the background be similarly admonished?

This is absolute nonsense and I would have asked him to identify himself and taken the matter further, this incident really sums up what a waste of time and money such people are.

 

[Fred26]

I think this is a slightly harsh response to a relatively benign question in an environment where people who are not OK have ended their lives. A gentle 'fine, thanks' is usually enough.

As someone who asks this question of passengers dozens of times per day, most people ask for the help they need.
I can't even tell you the last time someone snapped back at me when I've asked if they're ok.

I don’t see it as harsh. I don’t go around imposing upon the business of others, so don’t expect the same in return. To me it introduces an oppressive atmosphere we could well do without.

I would prefer to see any money going into mental health care in general, addressing issues at root rather than a clumsy attempt to scratch the surface.

I know first hand that these staff at a certain GN station regularly stop people jumping under trains.
It's not perfect and they certainly don't stop everyone, but they do stop many.

Being a git to the person who has zero influence on the amount of funding directed to mental health doesn't really strike me as being of a benefit to anybody at all.

Exactly.

I suspect most people's reaction would be much the same regardless of how well intended the person asking the question might be.

It isn't. At all. I've been on the railway a long time, I ask people if they're okay many times per day. I can't even recall being snapped at in response.

 

[Welfareofficer]

Welfare officer here, a few things to point out are we do need welfare officers, especially at Pokesdown. Locals will tell you that the station is much better for us being here and drivers will tell you they can drive through with a bit more confidence. Each to their own on how you react but you will be questioned on the platform if you hang around and there is plenty of platform to stand on away from the yellow line so we will also be asking people to stand behind it.

 

[43066]

Welfare officer here, a few things to point out are we do need welfare officers, especially at Pokesdown. Locals will tell you that the station is much better for us being here and drivers will tell you they can drive through with a bit more confidence. Each to their own on how you react but you will be questioned on the platform if you hang around and there is plenty of platform to stand on away from the yellow line so we will also be asking people to stand behind it.

Nothing wrong with polite questioning, just so long as it doesn’t stray into overzealousness and citing made up rules around photo taking, as described above.

 

[Pompey00]

Welfare officer here, a few things to point out are we do need welfare officers, especially at Pokesdown. Locals will tell you that the station is much better for us being here and drivers will tell you they can drive through with a bit more confidence. Each to their own on how you react but you will be questioned on the platform if you hang around and there is plenty of platform to stand on away from the yellow line so we will also be asking people to stand behind it.

Agreed I think we need more as they actually help a lot with keeping people safe and also doing customer service.