Sign language on departure boards

[WestAnglian]

Indeed, I'd expect them to be a ruggedised version of a typical PC monitor with some kind of processor built in to handle the comms and generate the display image locally. Indeed you occasionally see Windows errors displayed when things have gone wrong. Quite apart from the added versatility, they are much more readable than the orange or white LED types, as long as they aren't in direct sunlight.

But there is still an extra cost associated with each extra screen, and installing and maintaining it and its cabling will be far more expensive than the purchase price.

Why should it cost significantly more than spoken announcements? It's a bit of a one-off anyway and can't cost much to run. And I suspect its cost is tiny compared with modifications made for other groups of passengers such as those using wheelchairs.

I'm surprised you've only just noticed it. They had it at some LNER stations well over a year ago, and at Glasgow Central last May.

 

[Buzby]

I’ve lost count of the countries I have visited that offer dual or triple language announcements (the last, usually in English). Yet the UK just doesn’t think it worthwhile (for that matter, despite the station signage being dual language, the announcements aren’t). Where should the blame lie?

 

[Welly]

These signed boards are currently put in areas where there is a higher than average proportion of people using BSL - such as near deaf schools and large deaf communities, which is why you won't see these boards everywhere.

I saw signing boards at Peterborough, as far as I know there is no deaf school (most UK deaf schools have less than 100 kids) or any large deaf population in that area. Presumably it is because it is an interchange station?

 

[D1537]

I’ve lost count of the countries I have visited that offer dual or triple language announcements (the last, usually in English). Yet the UK just doesn’t think it worthwhile (for that matter, despite the station signage being dual language, the announcements aren’t). Where should the blame lie?

Most of those countries will be where there are large amounts of people speaking those other languages (and English, of course, is the most common second language). Ignoring Welsh (as the vast majority of Welsh-speakers are in Wales and bilingual announcements already exist there), the next most common first languages after English are Polish, Romanian and Punjabi and none of those are spoken by more than 1% of the population, so there simply isn't the demand.

 

[edwin_m]

Why should it cost significantly more than spoken announcements? It's a bit of a one-off anyway and can't cost much to run. And I suspect its cost is tiny compared with modifications made for other groups of passengers such as those using wheelchairs.

I'm surprised you've only just noticed it. They had it at some LNER stations well over a year ago, and at Glasgow Central last May.

It is indeed a small cost compared to wheelchair provision, but the number of wheelchair users is likely to be far greater and the measures for wheelchairs also benefit many other people whether infirm or just with small children or heavy luggage.

Nor is it reasonable to compare the costs with spoken announcements without also comparing the benefit. As well as helping the visually impaired, spoken announcements also help people with no particular impairment by drawing their attention to something like a platform alteration, rather than expecting them to happen to be looking at a screen when it changes.

The cost of duplicating each screen plus cabling and some extra software will be less than that of providing a whole audio and visual information system, but is still significant, especially if it is a retrofit.

I haven't been to Glasgow or used LNER for some years, and I don't recall seeing these systems anywhere else, but nor do I see how that's relevant.

 

[WestAnglian]

It is indeed a small cost compared to wheelchair provision, but the number of wheelchair users is likely to be far greater and the measures for wheelchairs also benefit many other people whether infirm or just with small children or heavy luggage.

Nor is it reasonable to compare the costs with spoken announcements without also comparing the benefit. As well as helping the visually impaired, spoken announcements also help people with no particular impairment by drawing their attention to something like a platform alteration, rather than expecting them to happen to be looking at a screen when it changes.

The cost of duplicating each screen plus cabling and some extra software will be less than that of providing a whole audio and visual information system, but is still significant, especially if it is a retrofit.

I haven't been to Glasgow or used LNER for some years, and I don't recall seeing these systems anywhere else, but nor do I see how that's relevant.

But the screens are already there.

 

[HSTEd]

But the screens are already there.

Utilising the screens in this manner is definitely degrading the usefulness of the screens for other passengers though.

This is just loading an externality onto everyone else, internalising it would require additional screens.

 

[D6700]

On a number of occasions (mainly at Doncaster), I have given up waiting to see the information I need, as the time taken to change pages is so slow. With each page showing as few as four trains at once, it can be torturous - especially in times of disruption.

 

[edwin_m]

But the screens are already there.

If you're referring to stations that already have this then I agree. But not all stations have it. If you're referring to taking over screens in future that are used for other things now, then I would question whether this is appropriate given the much larger number of people that would disbenefit.

 

[Mat17]

On a number of occasions (mainly at Doncaster), I have given up waiting to see the information I need, as the time taken to change pages is so slow. With each page showing as few as four trains at once, it can be torturous - especially in times of disruption.

Doncaster is horrendous. I have to use my phone these days to find the info I need and hope it's still accurate. Like I stated earlier, I'm not opposed at all to sign language display screens, in fact I think they're a good thing. But there really needs to be an overall view board that gives all the info needed with seconds of looking at it.

 

[D1537]

Are we talking about the fact that the "signer" takes up part of the screen - which isn't really used otherwise, so that's not an issue - or the fact that it takes longer to cycle the trains if the signer is active?

 

[D6700]

It takes an absolute age to move from one page to the next. Despite the large screens, as few as four trains are listed at once, so the chances of yours being shown on the screen are much reduced. If it's just disappeared as you look at the screen, you will be in for a very long wait to see the information you need. You also may need to look at more than one page to see two trains, especially in times of disruption. They are not a good tool for rapid decision making.

 

[edwin_m]

Are we talking about the fact that the "signer" takes up part of the screen - which isn't really used otherwise, so that's not an issue - or the fact that it takes longer to cycle the trains if the signer is active?

What part of a departure screen isn't used?

 

[D1537]

What part of a departure screen isn't used?

The "signer" is in the bottom right-hand corner and on this type of screen there always seems to be a space there anyway, even when there's no signer. For example see the images here

Signer
No signer (left hand screen)

 

[D6700]

I should add that I actually like the screens and the info shown on them - it's just that it takes far too long, waiting to find out what you need, unless you drop lucky and catch it first time.

 

[edwin_m]

The "signer" is in the bottom right-hand corner and on this type of screen there always seems to be a space there anyway, even when there's no signer. For example see the images here

Signer
No signer (left hand screen)

Thanks for that. I can't really comment on the signer, however the written information appears to be clearly presented.

However, the display shows a series of stacked boxes, each sized according to how much information is to be displayed on that particular train. So it's likely that sometimes there would be scope to put an extra train in the black area at the bottom. With the signer present, this will either not be possible (reducing what is displayed) or the signer will obscure or distract from the platform number. The bottom box in the first photo also appears to have word-wrapped "and Darlington" so it isn't behind the signer. Again this could be more compact, allowing more room for another train, if the signer wasn't there.

So, although only moderately, the presence of the signer is reducing the information available to everyone else.