Signalling Connections to ROCs

[PDG1949]

Is there any listing of signalling transfer to ROCs available ?

 

[zuriblue]

There’s Section C on the signal box site but that’s very inaccurate now.

Alterations 2021 – The Signal Box

signalbox.org

 

[The Planner]

Is there any listing of signalling transfer to ROCs available ?

Macclesfield transfers into Manchester next year. New St into WMSC over Christmas. Gloucester goes sometime in 2024. Crewe Independent lines in 2024 I think. Cambridge will be ongoing. Kingmoor in 2025. Victoria and Feltham going on as well.

 

[jamess]

Crewe independents was down for 2023

Crewe Basford Hall and Independent Lines resignalling - Rail Engineer

Listen to this article If you have ever stood on Crewe station, you may have noticed that hardly any freight trains pass through it. This is because they are diverted via a separate four-track railway in a deep cutting to the west. Known as the Crewe Independent Lines, it is tunnelled beneath...

www.railengineer.co.uk

 

[TheBigD]

The Cambridge (and Soham) to Bury St Edmunds line is scheduled to go in to Cambridge in December 2024.

Dullingham, Chippenham Jn, and Bury Yard signalboxes should close at the same time.

 

[swt_passenger]

The Cambridge (and Soham) to Bury St Edmunds line is scheduled to go in to Cambridge in December 2024.

Dullingham, Chippenham Jn, and Bury Yard signalboxes should close at the same time.

Is Cambridge going to be a ROC then?

I only ask because it’s always difficult to pin down the intended number and locations of ROCs in the end state.
There’s now a permanent Tyneside ROC for instance.

 

[Freightmaster]

Macclesfield transfers into Manchester next year.

Has that been recently delayed? (I have it as August Bank Holiday weekend this year on a Network Rail document I saw back in April)





MARK

 

[TheBigD]

Is Cambridge going to be a ROC then?

I only ask because it’s always difficult to pin down the intended number and locations of ROCs in the end state.
There’s now a permanent Tyneside ROC for instance.

Not sure it's designated as a ROC,
but it is being recontrolled and gaining some other areas, like the Bury line. There are also spare desks in the proposed new layout which you would assume is for the Lynn line and the Peterborough line, though there are currently no plans/dates for that yet.

 

[Horizon22]

There was a discussion not long back about this:

ECRs and ROCs - any transfer updates?

Hi all, So far, AIUI, the following ECRs (Electrical Control Rooms) have been transferred to their ROCs (Rail Operating Centres): LNE (York): Yes (at York ROC) EM (Derby/East Mids Control Centre): No (MML still at York ROC. Due date of transfer to Dery ROC/EMCC unknown) Anglia (Romford): Yes...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Watershed]

Not sure it's designated as a ROC,
but it is being recontrolled and gaining some other areas, like the Bury line. There are also spare desks in the proposed new layout which you would assume is for the Lynn line and the Peterborough line, though there are currently no plans/dates for that yet.

As part of NR's revised resignalling strategy, several medium sized (P)SBs will be kept long-term. Many being expanded to incorporate closed local boxes, as at Cambridge.

 

[swt_passenger]

There’s Section C on the signal box site but that’s very inaccurate now.

Alterations 2021 – The Signal Box

signalbox.org

I noticed that in their lists that site expands the term ROC into “Regional Operating Centre”, is that correct?

 

[Railsigns]

I noticed that in their lists that site expands the term ROC into “Regional Control Centre”, is that correct?

Clearly not, since the initials would then be RCC.

ROC stands for Rail Operating Centre.

 

[swt_passenger]

Clearly not, since the initials would then be RCC.

ROC stands for Rail Operating Centre.

Sorry my mistake I meant to write Regional Operating Centre. It was just the “R“ meaning I was asking about, I’ll amend my post to reduce my confusion…

 

[The Planner]

Has that been recently delayed? (I have it as August Bank Holiday weekend this year on a Network Rail document I saw back in April)

MARK

Nope, you are right, its this year. It all melts into one sometimes...

Crewe independents was down for 2023

Crewe Basford Hall and Independent Lines resignalling - Rail Engineer

Listen to this article If you have ever stood on Crewe station, you may have noticed that hardly any freight trains pass through it. This is because they are diverted via a separate four-track railway in a deep cutting to the west. Known as the Crewe Independent Lines, it is tunnelled beneath...

www.railengineer.co.uk

No chance.

 

[a good off]

The Cambridge (and Soham) to Bury St Edmunds line is scheduled to go in to Cambridge in December 2024.

Dullingham, Chippenham Jn, and Bury Yard signalboxes should close at the same time.

That would be the perfect time to double Soham to the Dock, or at least put the passive interlocking in for it.

 

[LAX54]

Not sure it's designated as a ROC,
but it is being recontrolled and gaining some other areas, like the Bury line. There are also spare desks in the proposed new layout which you would assume is for the Lynn line and the Peterborough line, though there are currently no plans/dates for that yet.

Think Cambridge is now a Sub-ROC, similar to Colchester, no room at Romford for anyone else to go in there if I recall ! (Sub-ROC = Pebble)

 

[snowball]

Presumably, given devolution within Network Rail, it's now for each NR region to decide how far it wishes to go with the original ROC programme?

 

[swt_passenger]

Think Cambridge is now a Sub-ROC, similar to Colchester, no room at Romford for anyone else to go in there if I recall ! (Sub-ROC = Pebble)

As discussed in the other linked thread, Tyneside was just, (last Christmas), re-designated as a “ROC“ but there seems nothing obvious to indicate there’s a subsidiary relationship to York. I suppose in any big area the ROC with the TOC control staff embedded is presumably the top of the tree, but might there be a step back from the TOCs centralising control as well?

 

[headshot119]

Think Cambridge is now a Sub-ROC, similar to Colchester, no room at Romford for anyone else to go in there if I recall ! (Sub-ROC = Pebble)

Not sure if Cambridge is a Sub-ROC as such, York ROC has several Sub-ROCs in it (South / Kings Cross whatever it's called this day of the week, Leeds (Former York IECC area), and Sheffield, but they're all in the same building.

Sandhills was recently given signs outside which say it's a ROC.

 

[LAX54]

Not sure if Cambridge is a Sub-ROC as such, York ROC has several Sub-ROCs in it (South / Kings Cross whatever it's called this day of the week, Leeds (Former York IECC area), and Sheffield, but they're all in the same building.

Sandhills was recently given signs outside which say it's a ROC.

One thing is for sure though Colchester / Cambridge and maybe Liverpool Street will not be squeezing into Romford !

 

[swt_passenger]

One thing is for sure though Colchester / Cambridge and maybe Liverpool Street will not be squeezing into Romford !

It’s remarkable that having originally trumpeted 14 (then reduced to 12) ROCs it is later found they don’t actually have the room inside them…

 

[Horizon22]

It’s remarkable that having originally trumpeted 14 (then reduced to 12) ROCs it is later found they don’t actually have the room inside them…

Romford ROC definitely has some spare space. However it is only 3 floors high. But yes I doubt everything can fit in!

 

[LAX54]

Romford ROC definitely has some spare space. However it is only 3 floors high. But yes I doubt everything can fit in!

Isn't that for Upminster Box to go into......one day (year) ?
Think they were advised at the time of planning.....too small and more importantly...wrong place !

 

[Horizon22]

Isn't that for Upminster Box to go into......one day (year) ?
Think they were advised at the time of planning.....too small and more importantly...wrong place !

Yes I think you're correct, certainly a smaller box anyway.

 

[IanXC]

It’s remarkable that having originally trumpeted 14 (then reduced to 12) ROCs it is later found they don’t actually have the room inside them…

I've always pondered whether the assumptions over signaller workload, and thus how large an area can be controlled by one workstation, is where this has been proved unworkable.

 

[TheBigD]

It’s remarkable that having originally trumpeted 14 (then reduced to 12) ROCs it is later found they don’t actually have the room inside them…

Signaller workload has massively increased. Many more crossings with phones, significantly more line blockages now that red zone working has largely been eliminated, changes to CCTV crossing operation, etc etc. Some existing powerboxes have seen panels sit to reduce the workload, or crossings transferred to a new crossings panel.

 

[snowball]

having originally trumpeted 14 (then reduced to 12) ROCs

I think at its minimum (after the decision to drop Edinburgh) it got as low as 11, but it now seems likely that the number of controlling centres, whether or not officially counted as ROCs, will remain much higher for the next few decades.

 

[swt_passenger]

I've always pondered whether the assumptions over signaller workload, and thus how large an area can be controlled by one workstation, is where this has been proved unworkable.

Maybe they didn‘t predict just how many in number and how large the flat screens in front of each signaller position would be. As the price of tech comes down it probably makes sense to have much bigger detailed displays as well.

 

[godfreycomplex]

Isn't that for Upminster Box to go into......one day (year) ?
Think they were advised at the time of planning.....too small and more importantly...wrong place !

Few ROCs are in the right place!!

 

[Watershed]

Few ROCs are in the right place!!

A number of them do seem to be in rather bizarre locations. For example Manchester ROC being next to Ashburys station rather than Piccadilly, and West Mids SC being at Saltley rather than New Street or Rugby.