Since when has there been a 20:36 Leeds - Derby service operated by EMR?

[johntea]

Perhaps I've been living under a rock (to be fair working from home I probably have!) but I was rather surprised to see at Leeds the other day there now seems to be a 20:36 service to Derby operated by East Midlands Railway!

Seemed a bit of an odd one considering Derby is already quite well served from Leeds by the likes of Cross Country

 

[JonathanH]

Perhaps I've been living under a rock (to be fair working from home I probably have!) but I was rather surprised to see at Leeds the other day there now seems to be a 20:36 service to Derby operated by East Midlands Railway!

Seemed a bit of an odd one considering Derby is already quite well served from Leeds by the likes of Cross Country

Don't get used to it.

It is the return working of the 16:32 St Pancras to Leeds which has run since the HSTs finished in May 2021 but is reportedly not continuing in the May 2022 timetable.

 

[david737]

I used the 16:32 St Pancras from Loughborough to Leeds a couple of weeks ago and it was quite well used even after Sheffield (mind you it was a Friday), was a bit surprised when it went into one of the low numbered bay plats at Leeds as I assumed it went ECS to Neville Hill. It was only when I looked at the departure screens that I noticed it formed the 20:36 to Derby.

 

[bramling]

I used the 16:32 St Pancras from Loughborough to Leeds a couple of weeks ago and it was quite well used even after Sheffield (mind you it was a Friday), was a bit surprised when it went into one of the low numbered bay plats at Leeds as I assumed it went ECS to Neville Hill. It was only when I looked at the departure screens that I noticed it formed the 20:36 to Derby.

Since the demise of the HSTs, EMR no longer use Neville Hill. The Leeds 222 working was simply a token gesture, one which the industry no longer sees the necessity to provide.

MML to Leeds has for many years essentially been a means of accessing a stabling location, though presumably it did provide some useful extra capacity at times.

 

[swt_passenger]

Since the demise of the HSTs, EMR no longer use Neville Hill. The Leeds 222 working was simply a token gesture, one which the industry no longer sees the necessity to provide.

Neither did the DfT see a necessity, as has been discussed before. AIUI Leeds was not included at all in the last MML franchise ITT. The one-way northbound service that survived always seemed a bit of a strange idea to me.

Don't get used to it.

It is the return working of the 16:32 St Pancras to Leeds which has run since the HSTs finished in May 2021 but is reportedly not continuing in the May 2022 timetable.

Yes, 1F56 is showing as a normal Sheffield train from the May change in RTT.

 

[ainsworth74]

Since the demise of the HSTs, EMR no longer use Neville Hill.

And indeed the depot has changed hands to Northern as a result!

 

[_toommm_]

Neither did the DfT see a necessity, as has been discussed before. AIUI Leeds was not included at all in the last MML franchise ITT. The one-way northbound service that survived always seemed a bit of a strange idea to me.

Slightly OT but are the York (winter) / Scarborough (summer) extensions staying? I remember them being discussed a while ago but can’t remember as to which way it was planned.

 

[JonathanH]

Slightly OT but are the York (winter) / Scarborough (summer) extensions staying? I remember them being discussed a while ago but can’t remember as to which way it was planned.

No EMR trains north of Sheffield.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...5/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=EM

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Slightly OT but are the York (winter) / Scarborough (summer) extensions staying? I remember them being discussed a while ago but can’t remember as to which way it was planned.

Did any St. Pancras->Scarborough EMR services ever actually run?

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Are all the EMR St. Pancras to Leeds no longer to run. I used those services a few times, they were sometime cheaper than LNER/East Coast, although the journey time was longer, it was fine if you were not in a hurry.

 

[ainsworth74]

Did any St. Pancras->Scarborough EMR services ever actually run?

Perhaps there's some context I'm missing but yes. They ran every summer for donkeys years. I think they may well not have during Covid but certainly pre-2020 they ran every year.

Are all the EMR St. Pancras to Leeds no longer to run. I used those services a few times, they were sometime cheaper than LNER/East Coast, although the journey time was longer, it was fine if you were not in a hurry.

Yes the service has been reduced to one afternoon departure from St Pancras to Leeds for a while now since the HSTs finished with EMR. Getting rid of this final service is just a logical extension of no longer needing to get HSTs to and from Neville Hill.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Did any St. Pancras->Scarborough EMR services ever actually run?

Perhaps there's some context I'm missing but yes. They ran every summer for donkeys years. I think they may well not have during Covid but certainly pre-2020 they ran every year.

Thanks for clarifying. The context was that @_toommm_ had asked whether the summer extensions to Scarborough were "staying" (i.e. remaining or continuing) but wasn't aware if and when they last actually operated?

 

[ainsworth74]

Thanks for clarifying. The context was that @_toommm_ had asked whether the summer extensions to Scarborough were "staying" (i.e. remaining or continuing) but wasn't aware if and when they last actually operated?

Gotcha. Yes they were a regular thing pre-pandemic (I can't recall whether they ran or not in 2020 and 2021) and as I say ran for years. I'd hazard a guess that they were one of the remains of the once extensive seaside resort services that the railway used to run during the height of summer so probably actually ran for decades.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Perhaps there's some context I'm missing but yes. They ran every summer for donkeys years. I think they may well not have during Covid but certainly pre-2020 they ran every year.


Yes the service has been reduced to one afternoon departure from St Pancras to Leeds for a while now since the HSTs finished with EMR. Getting rid of this final service is just a logical extension of no longer needing to get HSTs to and from Neville Hill.

OK, Thanks.

 

[bramling]

Gotcha. Yes they were a regular thing pre-pandemic (I can't recall whether they ran or not in 2020 and 2021) and as I say ran for years. I'd hazard a guess that they were one of the remains of the once extensive seaside resort services that the railway used to run during the height of summer so probably actually ran for decades.

I get the feeling the Scarborough trip was, certainly latterly, a bit of a staff jolly that happened to run in passenger service. Surprising it lasted as long as it did to be honest.

I can't really claim to see the point of the York run either really. Not attractive for anyone doing London to York, and plenty of alternative services from the East Midlands destinations towards York.

That said, from an enthusiast point of view it's these sorts of obscure service which make the railway interesting. But I can see why it makes sense to ditch them.

 

[greyman42]

I can't really claim to see the point of the York run either really. Not attractive for anyone doing London to York, and plenty of alternative services from the East Midlands destinations towards York.

I would see it departing York quite regularly and it always seemed reasonably loaded.

 

[swt_passenger]

Gotcha. Yes they were a regular thing pre-pandemic (I can't recall whether they ran or not in 2020 and 2021) and as I say ran for years. I'd hazard a guess that they were one of the remains of the once extensive seaside resort services that the railway used to run during the height of summer so probably actually ran for decades.

The Scarborough extensions should have run in 2020, but that year‘s new franchise Dec 2020 consultation said they wouldn’t run “from 2021”. I expect the pandemic cancellations mean that 2019 were the last.

 

[Llandudno]

I get the feeling the Scarborough trip was, certainly latterly, a bit of a staff jolly that happened to run in passenger service. Surprising it lasted as long as it did to be honest.

I can't really claim to see the point of the York run either really. Not attractive for anyone doing London to York, and plenty of alternative services from the East Midlands destinations towards York.

That said, from an enthusiast point of view it's these sorts of obscure service which make the railway interesting. But I can see why it makes sense to ditch them.

Pleased that EMR’s Saturday only service to York has been withdrawn as they can’t even staff their core regional routes on Saturdays which is what they should focus on.

 

[D6975]

Gotcha. Yes they were a regular thing pre-pandemic (I can't recall whether they ran or not in 2020 and 2021) and as I say ran for years. I'd hazard a guess that they were one of the remains of the once extensive seaside resort services that the railway used to run during the height of summer so probably actually ran for decades.

They certainly did, there was a 07:xx Wellingborough-Scarborough that ran on Summer Sats for many years, and there was another one that started at Leicester IIRC.

 

[tbtc]

You know when the Newsreader informs you that a celebrity has died and your reaction is "oh, I didn't realise that they were still alive"?

I'm surprised that EMR have continued to run to Leeds at a time when they don't have enough staff for "core" routes, meaning big gaps at places like Mansfield (I'm all for Sheffield having lots of services, sure, but the evening return to Leeds seems a strange service to have retained at a time when other routes have been cut - I know you're going to tell me that the "InterCity" staff are different to the "Provincial" ones and that cutting it won't magically solve the problems for places like Mansfield etc etc, but it's a bit of a luxury to retain what was essentially just a positioning move whilst other stations have lost so much)

 

[43055]

They certainly did, there was a 07:xx Wellingborough-Scarborough that ran on Summer Sats for many years, and there was another one that started at Leicester IIRC.

The Leicester start would of been on a Sunday