Single ticket the same price as a return

[Basher]

Traveled Kirkby Stephen to Carlisle yesterday and a single tick was the same cost as a return. Is this ripping people off.

 

[glasgowniteowl]

Are you sure they were the exact same price? Looking myself seems to be 10p difference, which is quite common across the country

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Traveled Kirkby Stephen to Carlisle yesterday and a single tick was the same cost as a return. Is this ripping people off.

Is it? As @glasgowniteowl notes, an Off Peak Single is £14.70. Off Peak Return is £14.80. What you comparing?

 

[lfc84]

Pedant ?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Pedant ?

Either the OP's bold assertion is correct, or it isn't.

@glasgowniteowl considered not, and I'm inclined to concur. There may be valid examples elsewhere, but this particular flow (Kirkby Stephen -> Carlisle) doesn't appear to be one of them.

 

[Basher]

One would expect a greater reduction than 10p,

 

[MrJeeves]

One would expect a greater reduction than 10p,

Visit the old NSE area and experience the 10p/5p (railcard) single saving...

 

[Deerfold]

One would expect a greater reduction than 10p,

You might. However, it depends whether it came about by reducing the return fare to save most people money or by bumping up the single to punish those only travelling one way.

In 1992 a friendly ticket seller told me that it was actually cheaper to buy a Penrith to Halifax return fare than the single I had requested (I did not return to Penrith for 22 years).

 

[trainophile]

Waiting at Hereford station yesterday early evening, a man asked for a single ticket to Worcester, and was told "I'm doing you a return as it's cheaper". This isn't an unusual occurrence, Trainsplit will often identify where a return is cheaper even if you're only asking for a single.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

One would expect a greater reduction than 10p,

Maybe that's the wrong point of view. It's perhaps not how much you need to reduce the return ticket price by to get the single price, but more by how much you add on to the single fare to get an attractive (day) return price. The latter approach then makes the extra 10p charged seem a bargain.

 

[TUC]

Traveled Kirkby Stephen to Carlisle yesterday and a single tick was the same cost as a return. Is this ripping people off.

Or a really good deal for a return ticket. Depends if you're glass half-empty

 

[JonathanH]

One would expect a greater reduction than 10p,

The history is cheap day returns which were set the same price as a full price single.

 

[yorkie]

Traveled Kirkby Stephen to Carlisle yesterday and a single tick was the same cost as a return. Is this ripping people off.

Unfortunately, there is no way the singles would be half the cost of a return.

Indeed sometimes return fares are cheaper.

Or a really good deal for a return ticket. Depends if you're glass half-empty

Indeed, the rail company would see the single price as correct and the return at a cheaper rate for people who are more likely to be discretionary travellers.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Waiting at Hereford station yesterday early evening, a man asked for a single ticket to Worcester, and was told "I'm doing you a return as it's cheaper". This isn't an unusual occurrence, Trainsplit will often identify where a return is cheaper even if you're only asking for a single.

Presume the much cheaper return fare was an 'Evening Fare Day Return' which comes with restrictions. That ticket type's not available for journeys from Kirkby Stephen to Carlisle but "well done" to whomever offered it at Hereford.

 

[wilbers]

You might. However, it depends whether it came about by reducing the return fare to save most people money or by bumping up the single to punish those only travelling one way.

In 1992 a friendly ticket seller told me that it was actually cheaper to buy a Penrith to Halifax return fare than the single I had requested (I did not return to Penrith for 22 years).

We don't bite, and its a nice enough place for an occasional visit (once they've finished replacing the gas pipes anyway).

 

[island]

One would expect a greater reduction than 10p,

The rationale for the pricing is that most passengers make return journeys, and pricing single fares close to return means the railway only has to inspect/check once between beginning/end station and on the train, a total of 6 occasions, to collect in revenue.

It's unlikely any change would be both revenue-neutral and good for passengers.

 

[Deerfold]

We don't bite, and its a nice enough place for an occasional visit (once they've finished replacing the gas pipes anyway).

I've been back a couple of times since then, just had a bit of a gap (and had just been shocked by a £2.05 bus journey to the station in 1992 - at the time my (half fare) bus to school was 30p)

 

[Craig1122]

Unfortunately, there is no way the singles would be half the cost of a return.

That's the model that the soon to be contactless areas in the South East have moved to. It was also that happened when pay as you go rail fares were introduced for Oyster. In both cases it's lead to a very substantial reduction in some single fares. The overall picture is more complex as restrictions also changed so the impact will vary for individuals.

Incidentally I've seen Southern Railway adverts from the 20's and 30's advertising "return journey for the price of a single". So it could be argued this pricing was an early "buy one get one free" offer. On that basis you'd be correct in saying those doing the pricing can legitimately describe the single as the "correct" fare!

 

[yorkie]

That's the model that the soon to be contactless areas in the South East have moved to...

Not quite; it's a bit more complex than that! If this was universally true, Gatwick to St Pancras single fares would start at £5.70. In fact they start at £9.50.

If you are suggesting Kirkby Stephen to Carlisle is going to be £7.40 or that Sheffield to Derby is going to be under £7 for a single, then I would be very surprised if that happens.

It was also that happened when pay as you go rail fares were introduced for Oyster. In both cases it's lead to a very substantial reduction in some single fares.

Within the Zones yes this is broadly true, but what was done in 2010 was not perfect by any means and I don't think we would see a halving of fares everywhere, for numerous reasons.

LNER used it as an excuse to push Off Peak passengers onto Anytimes, as well as introduce a 4% price rise on top of a substantial rise which had only just occurred, which was on top of very high fares to begin with. Not only that, they refused to halve many of the shorter distance fares, which would have become not terrible value if they had done.

As a result of various factors, including the implementations of singles on LNER, Lancaster to London return is £115 and is a very flexible fare, while Darlington to London costs £81.80 each way for a very restrictive fare. If you travel at times when the Lancaster fare is valid, but from Darlington, you could be looking at £185.10 each way.

This has all been debated before, in numerous other threads.

The overall picture is more complex as restrictions also changed so the impact will vary for individuals.

Yes, that's true; this is being seen as an opportunity to implement more harsh restrictions, especially in the evening peak, i.e. a fare rise 'through the backdoor'.

There is no way that single leg pricing is going to be introduced at literally half the cost of the return nationwide; it's going to be done in a way that forces more people onto Anytime fares, and penalises people who make return journeys. That's the blueprint we have from LNER and the DfT saw how LNER got away with it, and will want the same elsewhere.

The price rises could be much higher elsewhere; bear in mind, LNER's rises started from a very high base and even then they were not considered high enough!