Six Million Dollar Man

[londonbridge]

Screengrab from The Six Million Dollar Man episode shown on the Legend Channel on Tuesday 3rd. Originally aired in April 1975. When did Routemasters stop running on the 109?

image is of a London Transport routemaster bus with a number/destination blind of 109/Purley.

 

[Basil Jet]

I think that's a Regent Three (RT), not a Routemaster (RM), although I don't blame anyone for mixing them in the gloom.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Screengrab from The Six Million Dollar Man episode shown on the Legend Channel on Tuesday 3rd. Originally aired in April 1975. When did Routemasters stop running on the 109?

I think that's actually one of the older Regents, not a Routemaster?

October 1970 would have been when the Regents ceased on that route, according to Wikipedia.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

I think that's actually one of the older Regents, not a Routemaster?

October 1970 would have been when the Regents ceased on that route, according to Wikipedia.

Definitely an RT of some sort. By the way you're the first person I've ever known to refer to the London version of the Regent by that name!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Definitely an RT of some sort. By the way you're the first person I've ever known to refer to the London version of the Regent by that name!

I had a feeling that if I simply called it an RT, I'd get several posts asking me what that stood for...

 

[Big Jumby 74]

I had a feeling that if I simply called it an RT, I'd get several posts asking me what that stood for...

Was thinking the same when I went to reply, lol ! Have taken the liberty of lightening the image up slightly, but still can't make out the reg (JXC, JXN, LUC ????), but one of the last remaining 'standard' (Regent III) RT's. The 109 was latterly worked by RT's from Brixton and Thornton Heath, and the route was gradually converted to RM's (Routemaster's) between 23 May and 27 Sept 1976 SX (Brixton garage) and between 3 Oct and 26 Nov 1976 SX (Thornton Heath). Believe the weekend 109 conversions started a little earlier, with other types, such as early DM's becoming involved.

Perhaps the original post question does still apply for info, when did the Routemasters (RM's) finish on the 109, and this would seem to have been 6th February 1987.

Sources 'LOTS supplement 19/Les Stitson' and 'Routemaster Vol 2/Ken Blacker'

 

[Trackman]

Screengrab from The Six Million Dollar Man episode shown on the Legend Channel on Tuesday 3rd. Originally aired in April 1975. When did Routemasters stop running on the 109?

Thought it was filmed in the USA.
Different programme or was one episode filmed in London?

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Different programme or was one episode filmed in London?

Must admit I don't recall having seen any episodes of 'Steve Austin' filmed in 'the smoke' (ours that is, not LA's ), but could be wrong. May be I should pay more attention! One US/UK film that does spring to mind is 'Brannigan' (John Wayne lead character), which I always watch when it comes around, more for the old school cars/buses (of my time) and the background shots around London.

 

[Merle Haggard]

I had a feeling that if I simply called it an RT, I'd get several posts asking me what that stood for...

I'm not convinced that RT stood for Regent Three - even though Wiki says so....

The RT was introduced in 1938; the 'Provincial' version at that time was called the A.E.C. Regent (no further identification) . There wasn't an A.E.C. Regent II (not '2'!) until after the war, so in 1938 the next number would have been two.

It's more likely that RT was an initialism of 'Regent Type'.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

I am reading from the book by Ken Blacker, 'RT - The story of a London Bus' , which I believe is the definitive work on the subject. It appears that RT 19 was loaned to A.E.C. in its early days for demonstration purposes throughout the country, LT looking to be able to sell chassis to other operators to spread the costs of tooling etc, and during this period the official designation of Regent MkIII (for the chassis) first appeared.

The chassis of RT 19 was modified to a new standard design by A.E.C. in the spring of 1945, being completed by the end of the year. This new chassis was designated 3RT. The body design had to be modified to fit the 3RT chassis, and thus was born the RT3 body.

From then on the RT's chassis designation remained 3RT, but the body designation changed various times as modifications were made, ie; RT3/1, RT8, RT8/2, RT9, but even so, everything remained interchangeable, which is why Aldenham works was such a success* (* my own comment).

I think the abbreviation(s) used in discussion is often just down to personal choice. I would recommend the above book to anyone. If a good copy can still be found, it won't be cheap. I must have baulked at the price, or had a senior moment back in '79, when it was first published about the time of that last day at Barking, as I never purchased a copy at the time and had to spend a hefty amount to acquire a second edition copy in later years, but well worth it.

Just as an aside, did anyone else ever ride an RT round the skid pan at Chiswick works, with the water in play? That was fun, if not a little hairy for the novice . Never be allowed today, but one of those days I'll never forget.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I'm not convinced that RT stood for Regent Three - even though Wiki says so....

The RT was introduced in 1938; the 'Provincial' version at that time was called the A.E.C. Regent (no further identification) . There wasn't an A.E.C. Regent II (not '2'!) until after the war, so in 1938 the next number would have been two.

It's more likely that RT was an initialism of 'Regent Type'.

I just call any AEC Regent an RT... whether it's a London one or a regional one...

 

[Big Jumby 74]

I just call any AEC Regent an RT... whether it's a London one or a regional one...

I have a few pics taken by a long departed family friend of some of the RT's working on Jersey in their blue/white (cream?) livery, albeit never got over there myself.

 

[londonbridge]

Apparently it seems to be a piece of stock footage used in other films/tv shows, given that the available info suggests the Regents were withdrawn from route 109 in 1970 and, as per my OP, the $6M Man episode in question originally aired in the US in 1975.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Just as an aside, did anyone else ever ride an RT round the skid pan at Chiswick works, with the water in play? That was fun, if not a little hairy for the novice . Never be allowed today, but one of those days I'll never forget.

No but I did experience the Manchester equivalent, a Mancunian on the pan behind Hyde Road works. It was different!

 

[AM9]

I am reading from the book by Ken Blacker, 'RT - The story of a London Bus' , which I believe is the definitive work on the subject. It appears that RT 19 was loaned to A.E.C. in its early days for demonstration purposes throughout the country, LT looking to be able to sell chassis to other operators to spread the costs of tooling etc, and during this period the official designation of Regent MkIII (for the chassis) first appeared.

The chassis of RT 19 was modified to a new standard design by A.E.C. in the spring of 1945, being completed by the end of the year. This new chassis was designated 3RT. The body design had to be modified to fit the 3RT chassis, and thus was born the RT3 body.

From then on the RT's chassis designation remained 3RT, but the body designation changed various times as modifications were made, ie; RT3/1, RT8, RT8/2, RT9, but even so, everything remained interchangeable, which is why Aldenham works was such a success* (* my own comment).

I think the abbreviation(s) used in discussion is often just down to personal choice. I would recommend the above book to anyone. If a good copy can still be found, it won't be cheap. I must have baulked at the price, or had a senior moment back in '79, when it was first published about the time of that last day at Barking, as I never purchased a copy at the time and had to spend a hefty amount to acquire a second edition copy in later years, but well worth it.

Just as an aside, did anyone else ever ride an RT round the skid pan at Chiswick works, with the water in play? That was fun, if not a little hairy for the novice . Never be allowed today, but one of those days I'll never forget.

My brother did, I chickened out. I was about 10yo, he, 8yo. The drivers when learning had to do two uncontrolled skids, then two copntrolled skids. Watching the uncontrolled skids frightened me as the trailing rear wheels lifted about a foot from the tarmac when the leading (rear) wheel gripped the dry road. We were guests to the Chiswick site arranged by my grandfather whilst he converted from Trolleybuses (routes 691/693) to RTs (169/193). A fascinating day despite my bottling out.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Watching the uncontrolled skids frightened me as the trailing rear wheels lifted about a foot from the tarmac when the leading (rear) wheel gripped the dry road.

That's raised a question in my mind, although being that young at the time I don't expect you to remember of course, but given you are talking of a Trolley here I guess, presumably there was either a circuit of wire which encompassed the skid pan area, or perhaps just a dead end stretch that ended about the place where a skid would start? Either way a dewiring would almost certainly take place I would have thought..?

Edit: Ah, have just twigged what you mean (I think?), are we talking 'leading' & 'trailing' referring to the direction of the slide (with an RT or similar)? Mind you, trolley drivers must have been trained in skid control as well, I would have thought, especially having come off trams not that far in the past.

 

[AM9]

That's raised a question in my mind, although being that young at the time I don't expect you to remember of course, but given you are talking of a Trolley here I guess, presumably there was either a circuit of wire which encompassed the skid pan area, or perhaps just a dead end stretch that ended about the place where a skid would start? Either way a dewiring would almost certainly take place I would have thought..?

Edit: Ah, have just twigged what you mean (I think?), are we talking 'leading' & 'trailing' referring to the direction of the slide (with an RT or similar)? Mind you, trolley drivers must have been trained in skid control as well, I would have thought, especially having come off trams not that far in the past.

Yes, ISTR the uncontrolled skids were initiated with a sharp steering to the right that meant that when the wet surface ran out, the nearside rear wheel dug in tipping the whole bus body enough to raise the rear offside wheel about a foot.
I don't think that there was any skid training with trolleys other than testing drivers on actual routes, remember, most of the LT trolleys were six wheelers so setting up a skid would be quite involved. They also had quite stiff suspensions with the motor(s) over the rear axles. Bear in mind, London trolleys were introduced in the twenties and thirties, - driving tests weren't required for cars until 1935!
I might add, as it was a Saturday, and the drivers there were instructors, their skid pan demo was probably pushing the bus far harder than trainees were allowed to, but here's a film of driver training a few years later which includes the skid pan bit:

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Thanks for sharing that clip. All mod cons, that driving simulator I see ! My day there was a Thursday in 1978, RT2880 the bus on skid duties. We were allowed to ride in small groups, lower deck only of course. Guessing as public was involved the driver(s) were probably instructors. The approach run was made around a sweeping curve, with buses parked end on to our approach route, both sides of us, and the horses were not being spared. As we came out in to the clear with the water in view ahead, the driver swung the wheel hard right so as to go in to a right hand slide, can't say if the off side rear wheel lifted at all - may have done - but the hairiest moment I found was as the bus completed its 180' slide the driver brought it under control, but we continued (at some rate of knots) in a straight line - backwards....that was the near brown trouser moment, not the slide itself..

Here she is on one of the other runs on the day in question. Not a very good image, but a personal memory none the less.

 

[AM9]

Thanks for sharing that clip. All mod cons, that driving simulator I see ! My day there was a Thursday in 1978, RT2880 the bus on skid duties. We were allowed to ride in small groups, lower deck only of course. Guessing as public was involved the driver(s) were probably instructors. The approach run was made around a sweeping curve, with buses parked end on to our approach route, both sides of us, and the horses were not being spared. As we came out in to the clear with the water in view ahead, the driver swung the wheel hard right so as to go in to a right hand slide, can't say if the off side rear wheel lifted at all - may have done - but the hairiest moment I found was as the bus completed its 180' slide the driver brought it under control, but we continued (at some rate of knots) in a straight line - backwards....that was the near brown trouser moment, not the slide itself..

Here she is on one of the other runs on the day in question. Not a very good image, but a personal memory none the less.

I think we forget just how completely LT did London's transport (buses specifically in this thread).