Skelmersdale station proposals & suggestions

[stuart100100]

Thanks @yorkie
The government have rejected the new station today and Lancashire County Council will be looking at alternatives

New direction to be taken for Skelmersdale transport plans | Lancashire County Council News

Lancashire County Council will continue to push for transport improvements in Skelmersdale, despite rail proposals to the government not moving to the next stage.

news.lancashire.gov.uk

New direction to be taken for Skelmersdale transport plans​

Lancashire County Council will continue to push for transport improvements in Skelmersdale, despite rail proposals to the government not moving to the next stage.
The government has said that plans for a new station and branch line into the town won't be considered for the next stage of development.
A Strategic Outline Business Case was submitted to the Department for Transport last year.
But the county council's Cabinet member for highways and transport said that work will continue to bring other transport improvements to the town, despite the setback to the plans.
County Councillor Charlie Edwards, Cabinet member for highways and transport, said: "We'll review the government's feedback and look carefully at other possible plans for Skelmersdale.
"I know that local people will be disappointed at this news, but we'll continue working hard to explore other options for public transport improvements.
"Improving the public transport network will help to make the town a more appealing place to live, work, visit and invest. By providing a high-quality sustainable public transport service, it reduces the need for some car journeys, which also reduces emissions and traffic levels."
The plans would have created new rail infrastructure and a new station in the heart of the town, connected to the existing Kirkby-Wigan line.
In their feedback to the submission, the government suggested other options focussing on the existing Kirkby–Wigan rail line could improve connections to the town. These would require less infrastructure work and at a lower cost.
The DfT said it will now engage with the county council and the Liverpool City Region Combined Authority to look into these options in more detail.
Other options being looked at include a bus link between Skelmersdale and the planned new railway station at Headbolt Lane in Kirkby, which has featured within the county council's recently submitted Bus Service Improvement Plan.
The SOBC was developed by Lancashire County Council, working in partnership with organisations including Merseytravel, Network Rail and West Lancashire Borough Council.

 

[Corriman]

This a link to Rosie Cooper's (MP for West Lancs) website. Bad news regarding the station proposal.
www.rosiecooper.net/news/

“I am disgusted by the decision of the Department for Transport not to pursue the proposal for Skelmersdale Railway, rejecting Lancashire County Council’s business case that would have been revolutionary for the Town...

“I will not be giving up this fight and I will hold the Government and Department for Transport to account for this betrayal at every chance I get. The Transport Secretary and Rail Minister should come and see Skelmersdale themselves and I am offering them an open invitation to visit, the sooner the better.


“This is not the end, and we will keep fighting for a train station to finally be returned to Skelmersdale.”

Oops, beat me to it.

 

[507020]

The government have rejected the new station today and Lancashire County Council will be looking at alternatives

I can’t help thinking this is somewhat meaningless since we will have a new government within days. What’s to stop the same proposal being resubmitted unaltered to the new government and this time construction work starting immediately?

 

[MarkyT]

This a link to Rosie Cooper's (MP for West Lancs) website. Bad news regarding the station proposal.
www.rosiecooper.net/news/



Oops, beat me to it.

Labour since 1992. Long standing incumbent. In current conditions unlikely to become more marginal so not a 'red wall' political priority for Tories, hence no new shiny rails for the residents of Skem!

 

[TheSel]

Thanks @yorkie
The government have rejected the new station today and Lancashire County Council will be looking at alternatives

Let's look on the bright side - at least we don't need to worry about where to locate the Rail Replacement Bus stop!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've seen rumours that the scheme has again been dropped (I'm not @stuart100100 but I've heard it too). What a waste of money. Do it or don't.

Reference: BBC News Twitter:

https://twitter.com/BBCNWT/status/1545091903875649537

The government has rejected plans for a railway station in Skelmersdale. Lancashire County Council said they'd now look at other ways of improving transport connections. The proposal involved a branch line connected to the Kirkby-Wigan line.

I do think some bus options (as discussed on speculative threads) involving Maghull North (not Headbolt Lane which is not as well road-connected) may be viable or even better, but why spend so much on all this first including acquiring a site which will no doubt now be lost?

 

[Bald Rick]

Dreadful business case apparently.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Dreadful business case apparently.

Maghull North may well have seriously damaged the business case. It's immediately off the M58 (which is overspecified for the demand and so is never congested), and as Skem has a weak bus service (and the bus station is a reasonable walk from the proposed site) it is likely people would drive to the station. Skem does to be fair have a good, Milton Keynes-like network of footpaths and cycleways, but there is a strong perception of them being unsafe (and often covered in glass etc) so I doubt many would take this option.

Tanhouse Lane Church (random example) to Maghull North is 12 minutes. To Glenburn Campus it's 5 minutes. This does head into the HS2-like (if HS2 was just about speed) territory of spending a lot of money to save people 7 minutes.

It could certainly be argued that a bus based solution properly integrated with Merseyrail would be better, and could double as an improved local bus service for Skem, though I see that as unlikely unless Skem was to be brought into the Merseytravel area (and I'm certain if it was in that area such a solution would already exist; Skem being isolated from Liverpool politically has not been to its benefit).

Talk of Headbolt Lane is silly - that's far further from the motorway. As for the existing line, well, you could build a P&R station at Pimbo, but I'm not sure what the point would be, why drive there for an hourly DMU with a limited evening service when you can drive to Maghull North for 4tph of brand-new EMU? I suppose an option would be to centre an eco-village on such a station, but then is housing demand round there that great?

Meanwhile Wigan is fairly decently served by bus.

It's also interesting that while Kirkby has had a railway since the year dot, it doesn't have any fewer social problems than Skem, so would the regeneration potential be that great?

 

[urbophile]

It's also interesting that while Kirkby has had a railway since the year dot, it doesn't have any fewer social problems than Skem, so would the regeneration potential be that great?

Although I have lived in both places, it was a long time ago so my inevitably subjective reflections will also be somewhat out of date. However, Kirkby's social problems in the 1970s stemmed largely from its being a one-class town of almost entirely (then) social housing, few stable jobs and even fewer high-status ones, and a large under-21 population. Skelmersdale, built slightly later specifically as a 'new town' rather than overspill estate, was planned for a technocratic age with a car-owning population (hence the sweeping dual-carriageways going nowhere). But recession hit and employment prospects collapsed so the result was a depressed population as well as a depressed economy. People couldn't afford cars and had little to do, so problems like drug abuse and vandalism were rife.

Kirkby always saw itself as part of Liverpool (though actually outside the city boundary, the bulk of the housing was Liverpool City owned); even before Merseyrail there were frequent, if slow, buses to the city centre (and one hourly DMU which few people used). Skem was different. Although the population was 80-90% Scouse, there was an existing scattering of industrial villages with a Lancashire and Wigan connection. Travel to Liverpool, even by car, has always been difficult so Skem residents, it seems to me, have tended to live more in their own bubble, for better or worse.

The demographics of both towns have changed somewhat, but the geography hasn't. But it doesn't seem ideal that a town like Skelmersdale, with few facilities of its own, should remain isolated. So much for 'levelling up'.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The demographics of both towns have changed somewhat, but the geography hasn't. But it doesn't seem ideal that a town like Skelmersdale, with few facilities of its own, should remain isolated. So much for 'levelling up'.

The problem is that you genuinely could do an excellent bus based solution for far less than rail because of the M58 and Maghull North, and it'd give you a free quality local bus service, too. The other problem is that the UK is pathologically unable to do integrated bus and rail properly. Though I think if it was in the Merseyside PTE area it would have been done.

(I'm not talking about just running a bus from the Concourse to Maghull North twice an hour, though that would be quite cheap* to do, I'm talking about going round estates first, as otherwise you still have people getting in cars to get to the station, and if they're doing that then they might as well drive to Maghull North down the M58).

* Two buses would get you a very reliable 2bph. The journey by car is 12 minutes, which would mean it would be too tight for one bus. But rather than having about 25 minutes in the hour layover, you could take it round an estate too. Add a third bus and you'd probably manage to cover every estate at least hourly.

 

[stuart100100]

I moved from Maghull to Skem last year. I've gone from a 10 min walk to Maghull North Station to a 10 min drive, so with a car Maghull North is still my go to option

Even with a station south of the concourse that would still be too far a walk for some of the northern parts of Birch Green and Ashurst, I don't think a station in the centre of skem would be central enough for that many people, the town is just too spread out if you don't have access to a car (with a car it's great, never been stuck in traffic once!)

 

[Bletchleyite]

I moved from Maghull to Skem last year. I've gone from a 10 min walk to Maghull North Station to a 10 min drive, so with a car Maghull North is still my go to option

Even with a station south of the concourse that would still be too far a walk for some of the northern parts of Birch Green and Ashurst, I don't think a station in the centre of skem would be central enough for that many people, the town is just too spread out if you don't have access to a car (with a car it's great, never been stuck in traffic once!)

This is the problem. Skem isn't like Milton Keynes for one key reason - it's mostly a traffic source, not a traffic sink. That is, there's very little reason for someone from Liverpool to go there, and I'd bet the vast majority of the population of Liverpool probably hasn't ever been there. There's a bit of commuting for work purposes, e.g. to the Co-op Bank's site, but overall the employment picture is of relatively low-wage jobs like retail and warehouse work, and all of those are available elsewhere.

If this was also true of Milton Keynes, then the original plan of not bothering with MKC station would have been fine - those going to London would have driven to Wolverton or Bletchley - most people going to MKC drive there anyway. The key with MK was that it is a significant regional shopping and employment centre in a way Skem isn't.

Of course there is now one other thing we can revisit, namely the idea of extending half-hourly Merseyrail to Wigan Wallgate bay on battery, which would have relatively low capital costs involved. Were that to happen, Upholland (or a replacement, say in Pimbo, where a lot of the employment is!) might be useful to those in the bottom right hand corner. It does look to me like there's a decent amount of spare land around Upholland station for a car park (it presently doesn't have one at all) if this was to happen.

 

[CdBrux]

Of course there is now one other thing we can revisit, namely the idea of extending half-hourly Merseyrail to Wigan Wallgate bay on battery, which would have relatively low capital costs involved. Were that to happen, Upholland (or a replacement, say in Pimbo, where a lot of the employment is!) might be useful to those in the bottom right hand corner. It does look to me like there's a decent amount of spare land around Upholland station for a car park (it presently doesn't have one at all) if this was to happen.

This is an interesting idea which, as you say, is made much harder by a Skem station (unless 2 extend to Skem and 2 to Wigan). It seems to suggest a well planned bus interchanging (and with common tickets) with the rail is a much preferable solution all round

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Of course there is now one other thing we can revisit, namely the idea of extending half-hourly Merseyrail to Wigan Wallgate bay on battery, which would have relatively low capital costs involved. Were that to happen, Upholland (or a replacement, say in Pimbo, where a lot of the employment is!) might be useful to those in the bottom right hand corner. It does look to me like there's a decent amount of spare land around Upholland station for a car park (it presently doesn't have one at all) if this was to happen.

This, I think, is something that should be looked at - even if just to identify reasons to dismiss it as impractical. Would some sort of 'Skem Parkway' (whether at Upholland with a substantial car park, or something a little further towards Liverpool in Pimbo) give most of the benefits of a Skem station without the costs of building a Skem branch?

 

[Bletchleyite]

This, I think, is something that should be looked at - even if just to identify reasons to dismiss it as impractical. Would some sort of 'Skem Parkway' (whether at Upholland with a substantial car park, or something a little further towards Liverpool in Pimbo) give most of the benefits of a Skem station without the costs of building a Skem branch?

Maghull North basically already does, though. But politically it might.

 

[urbophile]

This is the problem. Skem isn't like Milton Keynes for one key reason - it's mostly a traffic source, not a traffic sink. That is, there's very little reason for someone from Liverpool to go there, and I'd bet the vast majority of the population of Liverpool probably hasn't ever been there. There's a bit of commuting for work purposes, e.g. to the Co-op Bank's site, but overall the employment picture is of relatively low-wage jobs like retail and warehouse work, and all of those are available elsewhere.

If this was also true of Milton Keynes, then the original plan of not bothering with MKC station would have been fine - those going to London would have driven to Wolverton or Bletchley - most people going to MKC drive there anyway. The key with MK was that it is a significant regional shopping and employment centre in a way Skem isn't.

Of course there is now one other thing we can revisit, namely the idea of extending half-hourly Merseyrail to Wigan Wallgate bay on battery, which would have relatively low capital costs involved. Were that to happen, Upholland (or a replacement, say in Pimbo, where a lot of the employment is!) might be useful to those in the bottom right hand corner. It does look to me like there's a decent amount of spare land around Upholland station for a car park (it presently doesn't have one at all) if this was to happen.

True. I always thought that the planners of Kirkby in the 1950s didn't expect the explosion in car ownership, with the result that the many narrow streets are often impassable, whereas Skem was designed as a car-owners' paradise, hence circuitous pedestrian routes and a second-rate bus service even though many people couldn't afford cars. Commuter and leisure traffic out of Kirkby is overwhelmingly towards Liverpool; I'd guess that apart from the occasional visit to Nan most people in Skem gravitate to Ormskirk or Wigan. A rail service to both Liverpool and Wigan would have worked, but I suspect your idea of a fast bus link to Maghull, balanced by one to Wigan, would be better.

 

[Greybeard33]

Commuter and leisure traffic out of Kirkby is overwhelmingly towards Liverpool; I'd guess that apart from the occasional visit to Nan most people in Skem gravitate to Ormskirk or Wigan. A rail service to both Liverpool and Wigan would have worked, but I suspect your idea of a fast bus link to Maghull, balanced by one to Wigan, would be better.

Indeed. A solution that improves public transport access to the employment markets of Wigan, Bolton and Manchester (e.g. a bus link to Upholland, combined with a Merseyrail extension to Wigan) would surely do more to "level up" Skem in the longer term than one that focuses exclusively on Liverpool and Ormskirk.

Not to say that a bus link to Maghull North is not desirable too.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Another chance for the Yogic Flyers?

An extension of Merseyrail services, to the vicinity of Skelmersdale or even Wigan, with a high quality integrated bus link from all / many areas of the town would be my suggestion.

 

[emoaconr]

I do think now this leaves battery/3rd rail extension to Wigan Wallgate more viable, with potential for an upgraded Upholland station, which is also conveniently located alongside the M58

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

I do think now this leaves battery/3rd rail extension to Wigan Wallgate more viable, with potential for an upgraded Upholland station, which is also conveniently located alongside the M58

I don't doubt that some will think so as it demonstrates a willingness to appear to want to make improvements in the area but without cross-Wigan services (ie to Manchester) you might just as well close the line. Local traffic to Wigan is quite well served by local buses already. Cutting the through services will simply push more people into their cars.

 

[Basil Jet]

I don't know the area, but if Skelmersdale in itself doesn't warrant a service, would a line from Ormskirk to Upholland via Skelmersdale with through service to Wigan and Manchester make sense once various Ormskirk journeys were added to the equation?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I don't know the area, but if Skelmersdale in itself doesn't warrant a service, would a line from Ormskirk to Upholland via Skelmersdale with through service to Wigan and Manchester make sense once various Ormskirk journeys were added to the equation?

What do you propose happens to the existing Upholland railway station which already has a service to Wigan Wallgate?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I don't know the area, but if Skelmersdale in itself doesn't warrant a service, would a line from Ormskirk to Upholland via Skelmersdale with through service to Wigan and Manchester make sense once various Ormskirk journeys were added to the equation?

The trackbed of the old line from Ormskirk to Skelmersdale is mostly unobstructed as far as the point it meets the Skem ring-road, but from then on it's been pretty much obliterated. Without checking, I've a feeling that line is also at a significantly higher elevation at the point the surviving trackbed ends, than the Kirkby to Wigan line you'll be joining is. So you'd need quite the climb between Upholland and Old Skem if re-using the old Ormskirk line.

 

[snowball]

It would be more expensive than the idea that's just been rejected, because of the need to find a route through Skelmerdsale.

 

[WAO]

Perhaps, now that the idea of a branch is rejected, a more achievable Merseyrail target of Wigan Wallgate may be adopted, with improved road and bus links to the stations adjacent to Skelmersdale's districts (including Maghull N).

Headbolt Lane Station might, even at this late stage, be given two proper
through platforms.

WAO

 

[Gareth]

You'd think but if you believe the commentary on this thread, Skem & Wigan have near enough nothing to do with Liverpool and unless there's services crossing Wigan, providing West Lancs with direct services to the Northern Powerhouse, the Kirkby-Wigan line isn't worth anything and may as well be closed. News to me but these people must know more about the situation than I do.

 

[urbophile]

You'd think but if you believe the commentary on this thread, Skem & Wigan have near enough nothing to do with Liverpool and unless there's services crossing Wigan, providing West Lancs with direct services to the Northern Powerhouse, the Kirkby-Wigan line isn't worth anything and may as well be closed. News to me but these people must know more about the situation than I do.

I don't think that's quite true. Skem has strong connections with Liverpool and better transport links would strengthen them. It's just that it's not the only or main traffic flow afaik... it needs a good link with Wigan too. That's why the station proposal was a good one. Wigan to Kirkby as part of a route to Liverpool would be circuitous even if it didn't involve a change; there is a perfectly good route via St Helens. But if it's viable now it surely would be even more so with a direct link to Skelmersdale.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't doubt that some will think so as it demonstrates a willingness to appear to want to make improvements in the area but without cross-Wigan services (ie to Manchester) you might just as well close the line. Local traffic to Wigan is quite well served by local buses already. Cutting the through services will simply push more people into their cars.

If you could get 2tph through to Wigan from Merseyrail it would become the main Liverpool to Wigan service and would be very well used. That would probably also mean a good evening service (23xx off Liverpool) and connections at Wigan for Manchester 4 times an hour (2 via Bolton one of which runs onto Castlefield, 2 via Atherton). While I know people like through trains, in terms of utility that is a massive upgrade.

You'd think but if you believe the commentary on this thread, Skem & Wigan have near enough nothing to do with Liverpool and unless there's services crossing Wigan, providing West Lancs with direct services to the Northern Powerhouse, the Kirkby-Wigan line isn't worth anything and may as well be closed. News to me but these people must know more about the situation than I do.

The line has one (1j station in West Lancs, Upholland. All the stations are very quiet.

The massive upgrade provided by extending Merseyrail to Wigan cannot be underestimated. It might even mean people change the way they live for the convenience, choosing work in Liverpool, for instance.

 

[Gareth]

Although via St Helens does have the semifast Blackpool-Lime Street service and, maybe one day, reliable intercity services to and from Scotland. That said, Merseyrail offers better penetration of the city centre via Moorfields and Liverpool Central and much better links to the Bootle/North Liverpool area.

If Merseyrail does end up extending to Wallgate, then it may improve the case for a spur to Skelmersdale in the future (2tph to each), although that will most likely put the kibosh on direct Skem-Wigan services.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't think that's quite true. Skem has strong connections with Liverpool and better transport links would strengthen them. It's just that it's not the only or main traffic flow afaik... it needs a good link with Wigan too. That's why the station proposal was a good one. Wigan to Kirkby as part of a route to Liverpool would be circuitous even if it didn't involve a change; there is a perfectly good route via St Helens.

It is not "circuitous", the two routes have a very similar curve in their route, and would become the main Liverpool to Wigan service very quickly, just as it arguably was before Merseyrail arrived (as was via Ormskirk the main route to Preston and Scotland).

I think extending to Wigan could well remove a not inconsiderable number of cars from the M58. Though probably more so from Wigan than from Skem.

Although via St Helens does have the semifast Blackpool-Lime Street service and, maybe one day, reliable intercity services to and from Scotland. That said, Merseyrail offers the better penetration of the city centre via Moorfields and Liverpool Central and much better links to the Bootle/North Liverpool area.

Merseyrail is by no means perfect, but it is hugely popular and generally well regarded - just like Metrolink but minus the big antisocial behaviour issues that suffers. Any Merseyrail extension is almost certain to bring considerably increased usage, and as it would just require a footbridge and lifts at Headbolt and sorting out and extending the bay at Wallgate to do a half hourly service the cost of the improvement is very small, and Merseyrail will already have enough battery 777s to do it.