'Smart Motorways'

[dangie]

At last someone has seen sense and scrapped plans for future Smart Motorways.
Unfortunately existing ones will remain, plus those nearing completion.
Never should have been allowed in the first place.

New smart motorway plans being scrapped

Plans to have more stretches without hard shoulders are cancelled amid cost and safety concerns.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[jon0844]

I never really had an issue with the first generation ones that had loads of gantry signs and cameras, so the hard shoulder could be quickly closed if someone was stopped.

But for some reason we later decided, nah, sod that, let's just get rid of the hard shoulder and have one sign every mile or two that means a blocked lane could be live running for a long way. Totally and utterly insane, and a regular cause of delays on the M25.

I do wonder how much the Government really cared about the safety implications, versus using that as the perfect justification to save even more money by scrapping them.

If they truly did care about the safety, they'd be repainting the hard shoulders to make them permanent. Then perhaps invest more in public transport to get more vehicles off the road, so the reduced capacity wouldn't have as much impact!!

 

[bramling]

I never really had an issue with the first generation ones that had loads of gantry signs and cameras, so the hard shoulder could be quickly closed if someone was stopped.

But for some reason we later decided, nah, sod that, let's just get rid of the hard shoulder and have one sign every mile or two that means a blocked lane could be live running for a long way. Totally and utterly insane, and a regular cause of delays on the M25.

I do wonder how much the Government really cared about the safety implications, versus using that as the perfect justification to save even more money by scrapping them.

If they truly did care about the safety, they'd be repainting the hard shoulders to make them permanent. Then perhaps invest more in public transport to get more vehicles off the road, so the reduced capacity wouldn't have as much impact!!

Being cynical, I tend to agree that this is more to do with (1) a convenient way to save the cost of further conversion, whilst (2) at the same time a populist measure which is likely to please many.

That said, I think it’s completely the right decision. However worth remembering that these abominations have been brought in by this very same government over the last 10-15 years. So essentially a costly error, which at some point will probably become sufficiently salient that vast sums of money will have to be spent correcting the error - or as you say just going for the cheap option of reinstating a hard shoulder by way of white paint, and leave it to a future government to start again with enhancing capacity.

More local to you and I, presumably that means any improvements on the A1(M) between Welwyn and Stevenage North are, once again, on the back burner. I’m very glad this section now won’t be becoming a smart motorway. I wonder if I will ever see three lanes on this section in my lifetime. Maybe if Hitchin & Harpenden and Stevenage look like changing colour, as seems likely in 2024, then something could be rushed through?!

So this government even managed to ruin our motorways.

 

[ainsworth74]

I never really had an issue with the first generation ones that had loads of gantry signs and cameras, so the hard shoulder could be quickly closed if someone was stopped.

Plus the refuges were placed at around half-mile intervals on those first generation of smart motorways rather than the mile and a half of later designs. You're far more likely to be able to nurse a failing a car half a mile than a mile and half so would avoid the need to ever worry about having to have a lane closed in the first place!

It seems to me that they basically took the first generation, which seem to have worked quite well on the whole, and then "value" engineered them (read: sought to cut costs) into the death traps that they became.

 

[172007]

If half mile refuges when initially implemented and maximum of 40mph when the hard shoulder was used for running had carried on as the standard then this debate would never have happened.

All current smart motorways should be changed so hard shoulder running is only used during heavy traffic conditions and a maximum speed limit of 40mph implemented at that time. The danger would simply be no worse than an a road, in fact far safer than many likely the A34 in Oxdordshire for example.

It's a ridiculous knee jerk reaction to ban new smart motorways and to me seems simulat to the end of terracing in football we all enjoyed when what should have happened was a complete redesign as it wasn't as such inheritantly dangerous as some pressure groups suggested.

 

[bramling]

Plus the refuges were placed at around half-mile intervals on those first generation of smart motorways rather than the mile and a half of later designs. You're far more likely to be able to nurse a failing a car half a mile than a mile and half so would avoid the need to ever worry about having to have a lane closed in the first place!

It seems to me that they basically took the first generation, which seem to have worked quite well on the whole, and then "value" engineered them (read: sought to cut costs) into the death traps that they became.

Aside from the immediate safety issues, I find them stressful to drive on. Despite the extra lanes, lane discipline remains appalling (I realise this isn’t directly the fault of the smart motorway concept, but it seems to aggravate it), and there seems to be a *lot* more tailgating.

Then there’s the issue of rather arbitrary speeds appearing, in some cases for absolutely no reason. I encountered a 40mph with three out of four lanes closed on the M4 coming back from Wales last year. Absolutely no reason at all - I suspect it was for roadworks which never happened. I felt extremely vulnerable slowing to 40 mph in the right-hand lane. Then there was the 20 mph in Wales near Newport whilst roadworks were being laid out, except they hadn’t started yet, again frankly dangerous. I had to do a double take as I’d never previously encountered 20 mph on a motorway.

It’s always such a relief to reach the end of a smart motorway section. I’ve noticed my heart rate goes down when leaving one.

I absolutely hate the things, and am so glad the A1(M) has managed to dodge it.

 

[JonathanH]

If Smart Motorways are to be abandoned, what should happen with roads like the A12 that are two lane dual carriageways with no hard shoulder? That road is a far worse driving experience than a four lane smart motorway.

Motorways would be much better if people drove on the left unless overtaking. Using four lane motorways and seeing all the traffic in lanes two to four is really annoying.

 

[Agent_Squash]

Aside from the immediate safety issues, I find them stressful to drive on. Despite the extra lanes, lane discipline remains appalling (I realise this isn’t directly the fault of the smart motorway concept, but it seems to aggravate it), and there seems to be a *lot* more tailgating.

Then there’s the issue of rather arbitrary speeds appearing, in some cases for absolutely no reason. I encountered a 40mph with three out of four lanes closed on the M4 coming back from Wales last year. Absolutely no reason at all - I suspect it was for roadworks which never happened. I felt extremely vulnerable slowing to 40 mph in the right-hand lane. Then there was the 20 mph in Wales near Newport whilst roadworks were being laid out, except they hadn’t started yet, again frankly dangerous. I had to do a double take as I’d never previously encountered 20 mph on a motorway.

Wales has completely different road management to England - indeed, I’ve never seen slower than 40 on a National Highways managed road.

 

[JonathanH]

At last someone has seen sense and scrapped plans for future Smart Motorways.
Unfortunately existing ones will remain, plus those nearing completion.
Never should have been allowed in the first place.

What do you think should have been done to increase capacity instead?

Just to be clear as well, the point you are making is about a continuous hard shoulder? I assume you think there is nothing inherently wrong with variable speed limits which existed before 'smart motorways'?

 

[dangie]

What do you think should have been done to increase capacity instead?

Increase capacity vs Decrease safety
Should it really be a choice...??

 

[bramling]

If Smart Motorways are to be abandoned, what should happen with roads like the A12 that are two lane dual carriageways with no hard shoulder? That road is a far worse driving experience than a four lane smart motorway.

Roads like the A12 are indeed awful, in fact that’s probably *the* worst. In its particular case it should really have been made into a motorway, at least as far as Colchester.

The whole thing about a motorway is there’s less expectation of hazards like broken-down vehicles. For some reason this seems to influence the way people drive.

Something like the A1 is more hazardous in that there’s features like side-turnings as well as no hard shoulder, yet for the most part it seems to work reasonably well. Most of the issues surround the presence of junctions, and some sections have some quite sharp blind corners and summits (especially between Peterborough and Newark).

Motorways would be much better if people drove on the left unless overtaking. Using four lane motorways and seeing all the traffic in lanes two to four is really annoying.

For some reason people seem to like lane 3. I never really get that one. Then again it’s just the same at my local swimming pool, apart from first thing in the morning and last thing at night it’s *guaranteed* there will be someone in the medium lane doing breast stroke oblivious to everyone else bunching up around them, whilst the slow lane is empty.

 

[ainsworth74]

Aside from the immediate safety issues, I find them stressful to drive on. Despite the extra lanes, lane discipline remains appalling (I realise this isn’t directly the fault of the smart motorway concept, but it seems to aggravate it), and there seems to be a *lot* more tailgating.

Then there’s the issue of rather arbitrary speeds appearing, in some cases for absolutely no reason. I encountered a 40mph with three out of four lanes closed on the M4 coming back from Wales last year. Absolutely no reason at all - I suspect it was for roadworks which never happened. I felt extremely vulnerable slowing to 40 mph in the right-hand lane. Then there was the 20 mph in Wales near Newport whilst roadworks were being laid out, except they hadn’t started yet, again frankly dangerous. I had to do a double take as I’d never previously encountered 20 mph on a motorway.

It’s always such a relief to reach the end of a smart motorway section. I’ve noticed my heart rate goes down when leaving one.

I absolutely hate the things, and am so glad the A1(M) has managed to dodge it.

I will confess that I've only had very limited experience with them. I've driven J24 to 25 on the M1 each way once and J28 to 32 also on the M1 a handful of times. Though I drove J28 to 32 for years whilst they upgraded it but never really got the benefit of the upgrades that had made journey after journey extremely painful as my 96 year old grandfather who lived near Derby passed away shortly after it all opened and visiting him was the reason for driving it! So I suppose I'm not really well placed to comment as we don't, thankfully, have any up here!

 

[dangie]

Obviously non of us would wish to break down on any motorway, but if you did would you feel more unsafe breaking down on a smart motorway especially if you couldn't reach the next refuge layby?

Secondly, when you are driving on a smart motorway do you tend to keep away from the inside lane?

 

[JonathanH]

Increase capacity vs Decrease safety
Should it really be a choice...??

I think you are saying that if you don't have the land available to widen a motorway, then capacity can't be increased, even though congestion is a cause of accidents as well.

There is an obvious issue that drivers see a gantry sign and ignore it if they can't see the road ahead blocked, then have surprise that someone is stopped ahead, but it is equally the case that accidents happen in hard shoulders and lane 3 of motorways.

The whole thing about a motorway is there’s less expectation of hazards like broken-down vehicles. For some reason this seems to influence the way people drive.

There is something in this, although I don't think people drive on twisty 50 mph A roads expecting there to be anyone broken down around the next corner either.

The fact is that breakdowns are fairly rare nowadays. A continuous hard shoulder doesn't really make the road safer, as it is still necessary to reach it from whichever lane you are driving in.

It’s always such a relief to reach the end of a smart motorway section. I’ve noticed my heart rate goes down when leaving one.

Is this down to a fear of breaking down, or that someone else has and you might find them blocking your path?

 

[bramling]

Obviously non of us would wish to break down on any motorway, but if you did would you feel more unsafe breaking down on a smart motorway especially if you couldn't reach the next refuge layby?

Secondly, when you are driving on a smart motorway do you tend to keep away from the inside lane?

I try to avoid them as far as possible. Nowadays when travelling from here to the north west I will normally use a route which involves the A1. The M1 between Rugby and London is an awful driving experience nowadays, especially the section around Luton.

 

[JonathanH]

Obviously non of us would wish to break down on any motorway, but if you did would you feel more unsafe breaking down on a smart motorway especially if you couldn't reach the next refuge layby?

Clearly, I hope I don't break down.

However, I don't think smart motorways are inherently more dangerous than any other trunk road that I might break down on. If I broke down on a blind bend on an A road I might be fairly worried about it.

Secondly, when you are driving on a smart motorway do you tend to keep away from the inside lane?

No. I will admit that my first thoughts are not that there will be a broken down car in one though.

 

[bramling]

There is something in this, although I don't think people drive on twisty 50 mph A roads expecting there to be anyone broken down around the next corner either.

Agreed, however I think in that instance the reasoning is different, in this case simply down to incompetent driving. Whereas on motorways I think it’s more psychological.

Is this down to a fear of breaking down, or that someone else has and you might find them blocking your path?

Neither. Firstly it’s to do with the way others drive on smart motorways, there seems to be a lot more bunching and tailgating. You’re also having to factor in the potential for variable speed limits, which often bear no relationship with what’s actually going on, and the way other drivers react to both them and the presence of cameras, which leads to erratic driver behaviour. I find it quite concerning reducing speed to 40 mph in time for an arbitrary point if there is traffic, especially trucks, close behind.

Finally, being honest I find it a lot less stressful driving at 80 mph, when conditions allow.

 

[MotCO]

The fact is that breakdowns are fairly rare nowadays.

A blow-out can happen at any time.

 

[JonathanH]

Variable speed limits are a different issue to smart motorways. Are safety campaigners calling for variable speed limits to be scrapped as well.

I admit that having to slow for a variable speed limit can be stressful but that isn't purely a smart motorway issue.

A blow-out can happen at any time.

Yes, and it could be near impossible to get to a hard shoulder in busy traffic. I concede that that is genuinely scary, but not really a smart motorway issue. Indeed, a hard shoulder in the outside lane would probably be necessary to allow for more safety where blow outs are concerned.

 

[bramling]

Variable speed limits are a different issue to smart motorways. Are safety campaigners calling for variable speed limits to be scrapped as well.

I admit that having to slow for a variable speed limit can be stressful but that isn't purely a smart motorway issue.

They do seem to come as part of the package though. The A1(M) conversion in North Yorkshire doesn’t include them, though that may be because that scheme was very long in the planning.

I presume a traditional motorway with a full hard shoulder is less likely to justify the cost of all the extra technology?

Really there needs to be a review of variable speed limits as well. I don’t object to them in principle, indeed I welcome them if they improve traffic flow, however confidence in the system is destroyed when they’re used far too loosely. It’s unacceptable to have a 40 mph speed limit for non-existent roadworks for example, as that completely destroys confidence, then naturally people won’t respect them in a genuine situation.

 

[JonathanH]

I presume a traditional motorway with a full hard shoulder is less likely to justify the cost of all the extra technology?

There are variable speed limits on the whole of the western section of the M25 without any of it being smart motorway.

Obviously there isn't the technology to spot breakdowns that comes with smart motorways.

 

[bramling]

There are variable speed limits on the whole of the western section of the M25 without any of it being smart motorway.

Obviously there isn't the technology to spot breakdowns that comes with smart motorways.

I would say the M25 is a bit of a special case, especially the section mentioned, due to its exceptionally high traffic levels. Here the variable speed limits have been in place for very many years, and were presumably initially more to do with aiding traffic flow.

 

[johncrossley]

Increase capacity vs Decrease safety
Should it really be a choice...??

There was no realistic way of increasing capacity without them and there were demands by motoring organisations for more lanes. Not widening motorways would have been seen to be anti-car. Keeping the widening inside the existing highway boundary probably meant fewer appraisal requirements. Once motorway tolling was ditched as a policy then widening was inevitable.

You see way more cars in hard shoulders than in lay-bys on smart motorways. That makes me think that a lot of the cars stopped on hard shoulders shouldn't really be there.

 

[brad465]

Of course if our public transport networks were much better designed and affordable, the "need" to "upgrade" motorways for more capacity would not be so demanding, but that's another discussion.

 

[Altrincham]

Aside from the immediate safety issues, I find them stressful to drive on. Despite the extra lanes, lane discipline remains appalling (I realise this isn’t directly the fault of the smart motorway concept, but it seems to aggravate it), and there seems to be a *lot* more tailgating.

Then there’s the issue of rather arbitrary speeds appearing, in some cases for absolutely no reason. I encountered a 40mph with three out of four lanes closed on the M4 coming back from Wales last year. Absolutely no reason at all - I suspect it was for roadworks which never happened. I felt extremely vulnerable slowing to 40 mph in the right-hand lane. Then there was the 20 mph in Wales near Newport whilst roadworks were being laid out, except they hadn’t started yet, again frankly dangerous. I had to do a double take as I’d never previously encountered 20 mph on a motorway.

It’s always such a relief to reach the end of a smart motorway section. I’ve noticed my heart rate goes down when leaving one.

I absolutely hate the things, and am so glad the A1(M) has managed to dodge it.

I’ve highlighted this text in bold myself because this is exactly how I feel about this subject.

Over the last 25 years, I regularly travelled both directions on the M6 between Junctions 16 and 19. This included the time when the upgrade was taking place, so I often experienced the hemmed in roadworks and extremely narrow lanes.

I can‘t quite put into words the feeling of stress and anxiety that I have felt when travelling between J19 and J16 of the M6 on the new smart motorway. I think quite possibly it’s something to do with not being in control and not being able to escape.

But what this feeling has done has resulted in me switching to travelling down the (parallel) A50 from Knutsford to Alsager, which is a far more pleasurable drive.

 

[Agent_Squash]

I can‘t quite put into words the feeling of stress and anxiety that I have felt when travelling between J19 and J16 of the M6 on the new smart motorway. I think quite possibly it’s something to do with not being in control and not being able to escape.

The M6 J16-19 section is all lane running - so it's effectively an A road with additional emergency lay bys.

Whilst the safest thing is to retain the hard shoulder - a smart motorway with ALR is still safer than your standard issue dual carriageway, such as the A50.

I drove from Bristol to Lancaster a few weeks ago - all three standards of smart motorway, from variable speed limits to full ALR. Whilst I'd love there to be a hard shoulder everywhere, the fact is the technology should be made able to work for this without having to resort to costly road widenings. The bit I was most concerned driving on was the old variable hard shoulder sections just after coming off the M5.

Maybe the money could plug the HS2 hole though...

 

[JonathanH]

I can‘t quite put into words the feeling of stress and anxiety that I have felt when travelling between J19 and J16 of the M6 on the new smart motorway. I think quite possibly it’s something to do with not being in control and not being able to escape.

Is your anxiety about braking down and having nowhere to go? Am I placing undue expectation on the reliability of my car?

I have to say that I feel driving on the M3 between Bagshot and the M25 Junction is a much smoother experience since the road was widened and the hard shoulder removed.

Even if the permanent hard shoulders were restored on all smart motorways, as I think safety campaigners are demanding, I would expect the gantries to remain. Is my expectation wrong?

It would be good if the 'breakdown spotting' technology could be improved, which appears to be part of the issue.

 

[Altrincham]

The M6 J16-19 section is all lane running - so it's effectively an A road with additional emergency lay bys.

Whilst the safest thing is to retain the hard shoulder - a smart motorway with ALR is still safer than your standard issue dual carriageway, such as the A50.

I drove from Bristol to Lancaster a few weeks ago - all three standards of smart motorway, from variable speed limits to full ALR. Whilst I'd love there to be a hard shoulder everywhere, the fact is the technology should be made able to work for this without having to resort to costly road widenings. The bit I was most concerned driving on was the old variable hard shoulder sections just after coming off the M5.

Maybe the money could plug the HS2 hole though...

Is your anxiety about braking down and having nowhere to go? Am I placing undue expectation on the reliability of my car?

I have to say that I feel driving on the M3 between Bagshot and the M25 Junction is a much smoother experience since the road was widened and the hard shoulder removed.

Even if the permanent hard shoulders were restored on all smart motorways, as I think safety campaigners are demanding, I would expect the gantries to remain. Is my expectation wrong?

It would be good if the 'breakdown spotting' technology could be improved, which appears to be part of the issue.

I think what I am finding is that my senses are heightened when driving on all-lane-running sections of motorways, so the absence of the hard shoulder ends up being on my mind continually. Hence the feelings of anxiety (no doubt brought on by the fear of breaking-down going through my mind).

 

[AlterEgo]

What do you think should have been done to increase capacity instead?

Just to be clear as well, the point you are making is about a continuous hard shoulder? I assume you think there is nothing inherently wrong with variable speed limits which existed before 'smart motorways'?

I’m a bit confused, variable speed limits only existed on smart motorways didn’t they? The illuminated gantries with a “50” for example, in a red circle?

 

[JonathanH]

I’m a bit confused, variable speed limits only existed on smart motorways didn’t they? The illuminated gantries with a “50” for example, in a red circle?

I guess they all come under the heading of 'smart motorway', but variable speed limits exist on some motorways with hard shoulders as well - eg on the western side of the M25 (and other places).

Described as 'Controlled Motorways'. I don't think there is any debate about these being removed. I assume that if the other types of 'Smart Motorways' return to having a defined hard shoulder they will continue to be 'Controlled Motorways'.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_motorway

Controlled motorway

Variable speed limits with the hard shoulder operating as it would on a conventional motorway. They have most often been installed where a motorway has previously been widened but with a discontinuous hard shoulder to incorporate existing bridges, therefore using the hard shoulder as a running lane is ruled out. Existing gantries are upgraded to support signals capable of displaying a mandatory speed limit and speed cameras.

Locations
M1: J6A-J10, J23A-J24, J25-J28 and J31-J32
M6: J10A-J11A
M8: J7-8, J8-10 (Eastbound)
M9: J1-J1A (southbound)
M20: J5-J7[Note 1]
M25: J2-J3, J6-J7 (anti-clockwise), J7-J23 and J27-J30
M40: J16-M42 J3A (northbound)
M42: J3-J3A (eastbound), J7-J9
M60: J8-J18
M62: J9-J10 (eastbound) and J28-J29
M73: J1-J2, J2-J2A (Southbound)
M74: J2A-J5
M90: M9 J1A-J2 and J2-J3 (southbound)[Note 2]
A90: Special road between the M90 in South Queensferry
A14: J22-J33
A1: Brampton Hut Interchange: Where the A1 meets the new A14
A470: Between the A468 and M4 J32 (Southbound)
Notes
1: J4-J5 upgraded from controlled motorway to all-lane running in 2020.
2: A bus lane is in operation on the southbound hard-shoulder between J1a and J2a and on the approach to the southbound M9. The hard shoulders on the Queensferry Crossing are opened to buses when the Forth Road Bridge is closed.