Smells from the flat below

[anti-pacer]

We live in the top floor flat in a block that comprises of two storeys. Since the neighbour below moved in, we have had strong smells of his cigarette smoke coming up into our flat. Now bearing in mind our floors are concrete, this has been concerning, not to mention the rank smell we've had to endure.

Our housing association have finally carried out some works using "firefoam" in the flat below, as well as sealing up a hole in our boiler cupboard, and around the pipes in his kitchen and bathroom. All good you'd think.

Last night we could smell burning. We had the fire on and it wasn't coming from there. She walked round the flat and detected it was coming from the cupboard underneath the kitchen sink (a place where the previous cigarette smoke was normally strong).

It smelt like burnt toast, so I went downstairs and sure enough his kitchen window was wide open as smoke was abundant in his kitchen. He had indeed burnt his toast.

Relieved that I knew where the smell had come from, I went back upstairs and carried on watching TV. The smell became stronger and began filling our flat. It was almost as if WE had burnt the toast. Now I know burnt toast is a lingering smell but even today it still stinks!

I've never had this in any other flat I've lived in, but is this normal? Are we to expect smells drifting up into our flat to this extent? Also, I'm confused as to why after works have been carried out to prevent this, it can still happen.

What doesn't help is the fact this guy is a serious alcoholic, and predictably was p****d last night when he'd burnt his toast. I know burning toast isn't exclusive to those who abuse the booze, but I honestly think this is a disaster waiting to happen. If the smell can pertrude our flat, what else can?

Anyone able to advise on this? Any feedback will be gratefully received.

 

[fowler9]

Anyone able to advise on this? Any feedback will be gratefully received.

I worked for a social landlord for a number of years and I would always say speak to your neighbour first but I know very well that isn't always possible for a variety of reasons. Failing that make an anti social behaviour complaint with your housing association. Sadly I wouldn't expect anything to happen quickly. Not that your landlord won't want to help, just that there is a mountain of legal stuff to go through"

 

[Jones]

You could "encourage" his drinking till he croaks.

I had the same issue at a previous flat, but the person was the landlords family. Tried everything from writing to the letting agent, local authority, the landlord direct but all to no avail.

One of the staff at the letting agency told me to hope for a quick alcohol induced death. This was around 2000 so things may have changed.....

HOWEVER...

All buildings have to be sealed to prevent fires spreading, and if you can smell smoke it clearly is not. Contact the letting agency and ask them to investigate again.

 

[fowler9]

You could "encourage" his drinking till he croaks.

I had the same issue at a previous flat, but the person was the landlords family. Tried everything from writing to the letting agent, local authority, the landlord direct but all to no avail.

One of the staff at the letting agency told me to hope for a quick alcohol induced death. This was around 2000 so things may have changed.....

HOWEVER...

All buildings have to be sealed to prevent fires spreading, and if you can smell smoke it clearly is not. Contact the letting agency and ask them to investigate again.

The flat would need a decent level of fire protection. That doesn't mean you wouldn't be able to smell burnt toast. If you feel there is a health and safety risk include it in your anti social behaviour complaint. Keep in mind that you can't make the complaint anonymously due to the risk of malicious complaints. The person you complain about won't be told it was you though. They may make an educated guess of course. Ha ha"

 

[trentside]

My uncle has lived in a social housing flat for years - with a chronic alcoholic below him. On numerous occasions she has caused fires, been abusive to other residents, and caused other dangerous situations which have required Police or Paramedics attention. Despite the record and the various complaints, she is still in situ, though thankfully seems to have calmed a little now she's old. Apparently he was also told that it would be "only a matter of time", but that was at least 15 years ago!

I wish you well with your situation - I've experienced similar neighbours myself and it's very unpleasant at the best of times. We had a gentleman across the street from us who used to blast Dolly Parton records in the middle of the night, and never once cleaned his house - while on the other side, we had 3 lads who were in a "band" and used to practice late into the night. A beautiful house, but one of the nosiest places I've ever lived - it's quieter now I live by a busy railway line!

 

[fowler9]

My uncle has lived in a social housing flat for years - with a chronic alcoholic below him. On numerous occasions she has caused fires, been abusive to other residents, and caused other dangerous situations which have required Police or Paramedics attention. Despite the record and the various complaints, she is still in situ, though thankfully seems to have calmed a little now she's old. Apparently he was also told that it would be "only a matter of time", but that was at least 15 years ago!

I wish you well with your situation - I've experienced similar neighbours myself and it's very unpleasant at the best of times. We had a gentleman across the street from us who used to blast Dolly Parton records in the middle of the night, and never once cleaned his house - while on the other side, we had 3 lads who were in a "band" and used to practice late into the night. A beautiful house, but one of the nosiest places I've ever lived - it's quieter now I live by a busy railway line!

Sorry to hear that. Like I said before even if you make an antisocial behaviour report it can take a long while for action to be taken. It took a murder and conviction for one particular problem family to be moved.

 

[anti-pacer]

I have spoken to him and we are on reasonably good terms, and the housing association know about it, and it was them who carried out the repairs. It's concerning that even following them sealing holes up we're still getting smells from his flat.

Last night, despite his kitchen being filled with smoke, his smoke alarm didn't go off. It will have been tested by the housing association prior to him moving in so my guess is he's unscrewed it. We're talking about a guy here who's too idol to ring Wakefield Council for a wheelie bin, prefering instead to have his brother take his bin-bags to his house (or knowing these, some deserted woods somewhere!).

I think the best thing for us is to move somewhere else, and somewhere far more salubrious, which to be honest won't be difficult.

 

[fowler9]

I have spoken to him and we are on reasonably good terms, and the housing association know about it, and it was them who carried out the repairs. It's concerning that even following them sealing holes up we're still getting smells from his flat.

Last night, despite his kitchen being filled with smoke, his smoke alarm didn't go off. It will have been tested by the housing association prior to him moving in so my guess is he's unscrewed it. We're talking about a guy here who's too idol to ring Wakefield Council for a wheelie bin, prefering instead to have his brother take his bin-bags to his house (or knowing these, some deserted woods somewhere!).

I think the best thing for us is to move somewhere else, and somewhere far more salubrious, which to be honest won't be difficult.

Well I'd report that but I suspect that the housing association will ask for the tenant to report it to arrange an appointment to get it fixed. Perhaps call your housing officer or ask for them to give you a call (Easier said than done some times I know). You can always ask for a transfer but again that could take longer than evolution itself.

 

[455driver]

When you make a complaint make sure you make a note of the date, time and nature of the incident, the name of the person and what the complaint is, in detail.

Keep a complete log for future references, it does focus their minds when you start spouting "on such and such I complained about <this> and reported it to <whoever>".

As stated, dont expect anything to happen quickly, thwy will be hoping you get fed up and dont report any more problems.

Yes I do have a very low opinion of Councils/ housing associations where complaints are concerned!

 

[fowler9]

When you make a complaint make sure you make a note of the date, time and nature of the incident, the name of the person and what the complaint is, in detail.

Keep a complete log for future references, it does focus their minds when you start spouting "on such and such I complained about <this> and reported it to <whoever>".

As stated, dont expect anything to happen quickly, thwy will be hoping you get fed up and dont report any more problems.

Yes I do have a very low opinion of Councils/ housing associations where complaints are concerned!

Completely agree, record every incident as well as you can. As a former worker for a social housing company can I just say that some railway staff are held in equally low esteem. Ha ha. Not by me I hasten to add.

 

[455driver]

My problem isnt the frontline staff (I am sure they get as peed off with it as I do) but rather the systems that are in place to deal with the complaints.

If my post came across that I was berating the staff then I apologise, that certainly wasnt my intent.

 

[St Rollox]

I'd be wary of the neighbour dying off line.
I've had three neighbours pass over and were replaced each time by a sadder case.
The smoke coming up the building is alarming, been there and bought the tea shirt.
Long term you've got to think of moving.
At a certain age could you really be bothered.

 

[fowler9]

My problem isnt the frontline staff (I am sure they get as peed off with it as I do) but rather the systems that are in place to deal with the complaints.

If my post came across that I was berating the staff then I apologise, that certainly wasnt my intent.

Not at all mate. Sorry if I seemed like I was taking the hump with you. I just know what its like when you are in the front line and are the target. Like your good self. I just feel sorry for you, me and the OP who deal with the fallout of people who don't know how to behave.

 

[anti-pacer]

In fairness to the housing association (Wakefield District Housing) they are pretty good at communication, but they fall short with actions. Bog standard repairs, fantastic, couldn't complain as they're always same day so couldn't ask for more. In terms of this, different story.

They seemed rather dismissive of my concerns that this is an alcoholic who has almost set fire to his kitchen (well, not far off), who has also now seemingly disconnected his smoke alarm.

God help us when he gets his cooker, because you can bet your bottom dollar he will be cooking with a chip pan. If he falls asleep with that on, with no connected smoke alarm to wake him up from his drunken state, we're in trouble (him more so obviously)!

I just fear this is a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[fowler9]

In fairness to the housing association (Wakefield District Housing) they are pretty good at communication, but they fall short with actions. Bog standard repairs, fantastic, couldn't complain as they're always same day so couldn't ask for more. In terms of this, different story.

They seemed rather dismissive of my concerns that this is an alcoholic who has almost set fire to his kitchen (well, not far off), who has also now seemingly disconnected his smoke alarm.

God help us when he gets his cooker, because you can bet your bottom dollar he will be cooking with a chip pan. If he falls asleep with that on, with no connected smoke alarm to wake him up from his drunken state, we're in trouble (him more so obviously)!

I just fear this is a disaster waiting to happen.

Keep on at the housing association and your housing officer. Where I work now no functioning smoke detector is treated as an emergency. I wouldn't guess that other landlords treat it very differently. Sadly dealing with anti social behaviour can be a long and drawn out process. But there is still a process that has to be followed.

By the way, be grateful for the day to day repairs being same day, that is an emergency for many companies, ha ha. Day to day routine work is often 15 working days.

 

[Greenback]

fowler9 is correct. Make sure that the HA and your Housing Officer are kept aware of your concerns. Make sure that they know it it is a safety matter, and try and steer clear of subjectivity and hearsay eg alcoholic, dumping bags in woods and so on.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Ask the local fire brigade to carry out an assessment. from what you say, the building is likely to fail the assessment in which case the landlord will be given a very limited time to carry out compliance works or lose his insurance certificate.

Such thoughts tend to concentrate the minds of landlords because no certificate = no renting out = no income.

 

[fowler9]

Yeah, exactly what Greenback said. The minute you start throwing in that you think your neighbour is an alchoholic or a junky or what have you it sounds like a personal vendetta. Not that I'm saying you are wrong. For every case like yours the housing officer will have a dozen where neighbours just don't like each other. Keep on at them about the safety issue though and stick to that.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Ask the local fire brigade to carry out an assessment. from what you say, the building is likely to fail the assessment in which case the landlord will be given a very limited time to carry out compliance works or lose his insurance certificate.

Such thoughts tend to concentrate the minds of landlords because no certificate = no renting out = no income.

Being able to smell burnt toast from another persons flat doesn't mean the property is likely to fail a fire safety inspection. Housing associations are very hot on such things, ahem, also carbon monoxide detectors and gas leaks. It goes to the extent that if a tenant doesn't get their gas safety inspection done they can eventually be evicted and will at least get no further repairs done until the gas safety inspection is done in the case that it is outstanding. I can't speak for private landlords but am saying this since the OP said they are with a social landlord.

 

[cjp]

We live in the top floor flat in a block that comprises of two storeys. Since the neighbour below moved in, we have had strong smells of his cigarette smoke coming up into our flat. Now bearing in mind our floors are concrete, this has been concerning, not to mention the rank smell we've had to endure.

Our housing association have finally carried out some works using "firefoam" in the flat below, as well as sealing up a hole in our boiler cupboard, and around the pipes in his kitchen and bathroom. All good you'd think.

Last night we could smell burning. We had the fire on and it wasn't coming from there. She walked round the flat and detected it was coming from the cupboard underneath the kitchen sink (a place where the previous cigarette smoke was normally strong).


Anyone able to advise on this? Any feedback will be gratefully received.

It seems from what you have written that it is not simply a case of the smell permeating your flat through ill fitting, or open windows.
So either the housing associatiion have not properly fire stopped between floors ( and you may find either your local Environmental Health or Building control will be on side against your landlords.)
Or possibly at some time the waste from from your kitchen sink has been renewed and either the opening in the wall was not made good or a cement mortar was used which may have shrunk or fallen out.
It takes only a small opening for odours to permeate especially when aided by a prevailing wind.

In the kitchen both you and your neighbour are likley to have fixed vents (grilles) which if you are unlucky will let smells out (or in).

No quick instant fix I am afraid but a few options for you to consider

 

[Marionaki]

This must be very frustrating for you. Unless the laws have changed recently, it is the responsibility of every landlord, social or private, to have a yearly gas safety check done. Smoke detectors and carbon monoxide detectors are not a legal requirement for landlords to supply, but recommended. If there isn't one or the other or both in the flat, a tenant can always get those themselves. They are not too expensive.
All the best and hope all will be sorted very soon.

 

[Morden Via CHX]

My problem isnt the frontline staff (I am sure they get as peed off with it as I do) but rather the systems that are in place to deal with the complaints.

Correct. Whenever I find myself moaning at someone about something, I generally find I get treated a lot better if I make it clear that I am moaning about "the system" rather than ranting at the poor soul who is taking the call. These people are only human after all and like I say, I do find I get treated much more favourably.

 

[fowler9]

At the end of the day like I said before just because you can smell stuff it doesn't mean there is a fire safety risk. As regards smoke detectors and CO detectors I know that most large social landlords take these very seriously along with gas safety checks, although the landlord cannot forcibly make a tenent stay in when an appointment is made serious proceedings will be taken if the gas safety check isn't done. As far as I know the fire brigade will fit smoke detectors for free and the social landlord will not complain about it.

If you feel there is a persistent risk or problem keep on at them. They should keep a note of every call you make. Ask for it to be escalated. Personally speaking if I get a call from someone who is persistently calling about the same problem even a couple of times I will offer to escalate it myself without being asked to. When you call get peoples names, note times of calls and what number you called from etc. You are probably aware anyway but there is a Housing Ombudsman Service, you should always go through your own landlords complaint procedure first though as this is what the Ombudsman will ask you to do first, there are strict guidelines your landlord will have to follow and the Ombudsman will pull them up if they don't follow them.