SNCF Loco-hauled services.

[j2002]

Good Evening all.

I'm planning a trip to France later this month and would appreciate some info/opinion from you guys.

I would like to spend 4/5 days travelling on some of the older stock (loco-hauled etc) services in France. I don't have a particular area in mind, so might head to wherever is best to do this

However... I unfortunately don't know where to even start looking for information on what services (and diagrams) are loco-hauled or operated with older stock. Would anybody have any advice or be able to point me in the right direction of where to find some information?

Any help on this would be hugely appreciated.

Thanks,

J.

 

[CC 72100]

It's a brief response for the moment, and I'm sure someone can help with something more detailed.

There are a few desserts to be avoided. Pretty much nothing out of Paris Est or St Lazare these days.

Lyon area used to be pretty good, not quite as good now but still some loco-hauled.

Marseille likewise; limited loco-hauled runs to Lyon and Nice, big benefit is these are TER so no reservations.

Northern France out of Paris Nord is not my strong area, nor are the workings from Paris Austerlitz towards Orleans.

A good bulk of the loco-hauled are Intercités trains, but reservation compulsory. That means lots of planning and fixed moves as no reservation = can't take the train. There is a 2-hourly Bordeaux - Marseille service.

 

[rvdborgt]

AFAIK the TERs Basel-Strasbourg are still push-pull with Corail stock. No reservations, just find a comfy seat.

 

[DanielB]

AFAIK the TERs Basel-Strasbourg are still push-pull with Corail stock. No reservations, just find a comfy seat.

They were 2,5 weeks ago, so yes.

 

[Flying Snail]

It's a brief response for the moment, and I'm sure someone can help with something more detailed.

There are a few desserts to be avoided. Pretty much nothing out of Paris Est or St Lazare these days.

Is the Paris Est - Strasbourg TER no longer Corail stock?

 

[StephenHunter]

Is the Paris Est - Strasbourg TER no longer Corail stock?

Don't think so, but there is Corail from Strasbourg to Basel.

 

[rvdborgt]

Don't think so, but there is Corail from Strasbourg to Basel.

With 1st class even. You don't see that a lot on TERs.

 

[D6130]

Paris Austerlitz-Limoges-Toulouse.

 

[j2002]

Morning everyone and thank you all for your replies... That's all really informative and gives me a lot to look at to decide my next steps.

Thank you

 

[mugam4]

TER Gare de Lyon - Laroche-Migennes. Stops at Fontainebleau-Avon for Napoleon's Versailles

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Bordeaux-Toulouse-Narbonne-Montpellier-Marseille is Corail loco-hauled Intercité, every two hours.
So is Toulouse-Brive-Limoges-Paris Austerlitz (irregular timetable, but quite fast at both ends).
I recently used the Orléans-Paris TER and was surprised it was also operated by a Corail set, just a bit down-market from the Intercité sets.
All on borrowed time, I believe.
All the locos I encountered were 26xxx Sybics.

 

[D6130]

Also some TER services on the Lyon-Grenoble/Chambery-Annecy/Bourg St Maurice/Modane routes are worked by class BB22200 electric locos and Corail stock in push-pull mode.

 

[nwales58]

Also Ouigo Classique Paris-Nantes and Paris-Dijon-Lyon.

 

[StephenHunter]

Paris Nord had pure loco-haulage i.e. no DVT on some services last year, but I think EMUs are coming in now.

 

[Beebman]

Paris Nord had pure loco-haulage i.e. no DVT on some services last year, but I think EMUs are coming in now.

I follow a travel vlogger called Scott from Paisley in Scotland who has a channel called 'Planes, Trains, Everything'. A few weeks ago he posted a video of journey he made in May this year from Paris Nord to Bruxelles Midi via Mauberge without using Thalys. He took a train to Mauberge timed to depart at 10:19 and at 2:46 in the video he can be seen walking towards a rake of Corail stock without a DVT on the rear:

According to my Thomas Cook timetable from 1989 you could travel from Paris Gare du Nord to Brussels Midi in 2.5 hours. Now it takes 1hr 20 min by high speed Thalys, but that's not very interesting scenery-wise. There are no direct regional trains between the capitals, but if you are prepared to change trains, it is still possible. Filmed May 2023 | Paris, France

 

[railfan99]

Bordeaux-Toulouse-Narbonne-Montpellier-Marseille is Corail loco-hauled Intercité, every two hours.
So is Toulouse-Brive-Limoges-Paris Austerlitz (irregular timetable, but quite fast at both ends).
I recently used the Orléans-Paris TER and was surprised it was also operated by a Corail set, just a bit down-market from the Intercité sets.
All on borrowed time, I believe.
All the locos I encountered were 26xxx Sybics.

In October 2022 we travelled on what is now IC4657 (compulsory reservation) from Narbonne (depart 1210, nine mins. late) in car 1 (one of two 1st class cars) at the rear of from memory a nine car Corail loco hauled set to Marseilles (arrive 1521 hours, 44 minutes late - delayed with a 20 minute stop at Montpellier due to police looking for undoumcented migrants I think). Also lost 15" on approach to Marseilles St Charles.

I recorded the loco as SNCF 7301.

Most enjoyable: all seats taken in the two 1st class cars, and a few standees in standard class, so extremely well patronised. Refreshment trolley hidden in a std class compartment but later made a brief appearance.

 

[Austriantrain]

There are also plans for Ouigo Classiques services from Paris to Rennes and Bordeaux, AFAIK from December 2025, so there will be some loco-haulage for years to come (until the last Corail are really not serviceable anymore - the Ouigo classiques seem to be a success with very low-cost, siphoning off excessive demand from the TGV at the same time).

 

[Gordon]

Good Evening all.

I'm planning a trip to France later this month and would appreciate some info/opinion from you guys.

I would like to spend 4/5 days travelling on some of the older stock (loco-hauled etc) services in France. I don't have a particular area in mind, so might head to wherever is best to do this

However... I unfortunately don't know where to even start looking for information on what services (and diagrams) are loco-hauled or operated with older stock. Would anybody have any advice or be able to point me in the right direction of where to find some information?

Any help on this would be hugely appreciated.

Thanks,

J.

Paris - Orleans hanging on - very old school bb7200 plus ageing corail stock. Some services out of Nord on the Amiens and St Quentin - Maubeuge still hauled. Lots of 22200 (depot Chambery) and push pull corail in Rhone Alpes. Lyon to Annecy/ Geneve. Geneve - Grenoble - Valence. Lyon - Marseille.

Lille area 22200 push pull - services to lots of places in a large triangle of Nord Pas de Calais (Hauts de France)

TER 200 Strasbourg - Basel solid 26000 push pull refurb corail


All the above are walk-on

Please note the comment about compulsory reservations is too blanket. A significant proportion of the remaining old fashioned loco hauled is 'walk on' TER corails.

Ps - just remember that services (especially the big conurbation commuter trains (eg Lille, Strasbourg )) often stop being loco hauled in the summer holidays as less capacity is needed. Thus August is traditonally a bad month for non inter city loco haulage.

 

[j2002]

Thank you for all that information, you've given me some very good ideas... Out of interest, what kind of locos do you get on the Intercites Nuit?

J

 

[Gordon]

26000 or 22200. 75300 on diesel on Briancon and Rodez. Rodez still sometimes 67400. The latter and a couple of locals around Strasbourg is the last knockings of 1960s SNCF diesel traction

 

[j2002]

26000 or 22200. 75300 on diesel on Briancon and Rodez. Rodez still sometimes 67400. The latter and a couple of locals around Strasbourg is the last knockings of 1960s SNCF diesel traction

Much appreciated - thank you!!

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Thank you for all that information, you've given me some very good ideas... Out of interest, what kind of locos do you get on the Intercites Nuit?

J

BB7200 do also work the Intercities Nuit

Is the Paris Est - Strasbourg TER no longer Corail stock?

Yes it is, now with BB26000 think it’s two round trips a day, certainly very limited.

 

[Dren Ahmeti]

I had a BB 22000 on a Marseille St Ch. - Antibes run on TER 17495…

Seems to be a lot running down there still on TER Zou?

 

[railfan99]

I had a BB 22000 on a Marseille St Ch. - Antibes run on TER 17495…

Seems to be a lot running down there still on TER Zou?

On an Oct 2022 Monday we travelled on the 1427 hours Marseilles St Charles-Nice (arrive 2" late at 1913 hours) on a loco-hauled train, our first class car with 2+1 seating having been built by Alstom in 1986. Most unusually I did not record the loco number. We were at Antibes 1851 to 1853.

 

[JonathanPrince]

Bordeaux-Toulouse-Narbonne-Montpellier-Marseille is Corail loco-hauled Intercité, every two hours.
So is Toulouse-Brive-Limoges-Paris Austerlitz (irregular timetable, but quite fast at both ends).
I recently used the Orléans-Paris TER and was surprised it was also operated by a Corail set, just a bit down-market from the Intercité sets.
All on borrowed time, I believe.
All the locos I encountered were 26xxx Sybics.

BB7200 do also work the Intercities Nuit



Yes it is, now with BB26000 think it’s two round trips a day, certainly very limited.

Are all Paris - Strasbourg and Paris Toulouse (non TGV) services loco hauled or is it luck of the draw? Is there a way to see what's scheduled in advance, e.g. some indication from SNCF booking page?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Are all Paris - Strasbourg and Paris Toulouse (non TGV) services loco hauled or is it luck of the draw? Is there a way to see what's scheduled in advance, e.g. some indication from SNCF booking page?

All Paris to Toulouse ICs are
I say all the Paris to Strasbourg TERs are, there’s only about 2 each way a day.

 

[Dren Ahmeti]

On an Oct 2022 Monday we travelled on the 1427 hours Marseilles St Charles-Nice (arrive 2" late at 1913 hours) on a loco-hauled train, our first class car with 2+1 seating having been built by Alstom in 1986. Most unusually I did not record the loco number. We were at Antibes 1851 to 1853.

I had 522310, 17:57 Marseille - 20:12 Antibes!

 

[ricohallo]

Is there a way to see what's scheduled in advance, e.g. some indication from SNCF booking page?

The SNCF Connect app usually shows what type of unit will be used and when it doesn't there is a big chance that it's older (loco hauled) stock. I have seen it show a loco hauled train when it was in fact a unit, so it's not 100% correct, but it gives a good indication.

 

[WibbleWobble]

There are electric locos (BB27300) used on some Transilien line J diagrams, I believe the last RER/Transilien line to use loco-hauled trains (and even then, their days are numbered).

 

[Jamesrob637]

Bordeaux to Marseille is loco-hauled