SNCF - off the beaten track questions

[Drsatan]

Good evening,

In January, I will be spending a week in France travelling with an Interrail pass. I'll be staying in Annecy and Montpellier.

I'm currently researching journey options from Paris to Annecy. One option is the direct TGV, or the indirect service changing at Lyon. However, the ligne classique is recommended in the Europe by Rail guidebook as being considerably more scenic than the LGV Sud-Est. I accept a journey via the ligne classique is considerably longer, but can anyone offer a verdict as to the scenic merits of each option? In addition, are the TER services from Paris Bercy to Lyon loco-hauled or have they gone over to multiple-units?

At the moment, I'm intending on reaching Paris via the Portsmouth to Caen overnight ferry, the bus from Ouistreham to Caen, and then a TER Nomad service to Paris St-Lazare. The most recent timetable indicates the ferry arrives at Caen at 0645, then the Ex12 bus to Caen departs at 0725 - does this leave enough time to get off the ferry and go through passport control? I've read that TER Nomad services are compulsory reservation, but these can be bought on the day - do reservations "sell out" for these trains?

I've watched a few videos of departures from Annecy station filmed in the past couple of years which show TER loco-hauled stock. Are any of the TER services from there still loco-hauled?

I'm also looking up journey options from Annecy to Montpellier Saint-Roche - one option is to go all the way by TER services instead of using the infrequent Lyon-Montpellier TGVs. Can anyone recommend which option is the most scenic?



Thanks in advance.

 

[Peterthegreat]

1) Both routes from Paris to Lyon are pleasant but I wouldn't class either of them as particularly scenic.
2) Most, if not all, Paris Bercy to Lyon services are modern emus.
3) I think if the ship docks on time there should be sufficient time to get the bus.
4) I wouldn't expect the Nomad services to sell out in January (unless you are travelling during the holiday period). However I believe you can obtain reservations via Interrail (2 euro supplement) if you hold a pass.
5) Some TER services at Annecy are still loco hauled (BB22200). These include trains to Lyon and on the Geneva to Valence axis. I'm not sure how many there will be after the December timetable change.
6) Both routes south from Lyon are reasonably scenic. The classic route follows the river Rhone for much of the way whilst the TGV route is a little more hilly. Apart from Nimes to Montpellier it would be possible to do the classic route Loco hauled.

Hope this helps.

 

[MotCO]

At this time of year, will it be dark on the 'scenic' part of the route?

 

[dutchflyer]

Its dark when the sun has set-or before it rises-so roughly till 8.00- till 17.30 now.
@4. THEse NOMad services-and only to/fro Paris have a ´compulsory´ RES for 1,50-perhaps now 2€, and from the community.EUrail I grasp this canNOT be done via that site-only in person locally, I have also forgotten (caught out once by this when it was just introduced) if it can be done via a machine or not. Its more a nuisance and as with any RES: once indeed all is sold, its ´no more´. But checks on this are also reported to be nil and only in Paris is there a check on it by boarding
@6.LOCO are only the IC-trains in the south, doing Marseille-Bordeaux, roughly ev 2 hrs,-in between are the TER-sets. IC also require RES for 10€ extra. I also kind of remember that even when its daylight there may be lots of fog preventing much views in that time of yr.
Extra HINT: in the region where Montpellier is also situated there is since this year a TER-ONLY pass for 2/3/4/5 days for 10€/day-but it must be bought online and not via counter. Saves an awful lot even compared to IR-Passdays for juniors. Ranges till beyond Toulouse from there. On some days there is even a flat 1€ fare on all.

 

[Gordon]

I've been travelling to Geneva via France on and off for 63 years to visit family. In June 2022, fearing the imminent end of loco haulage I made a 'farewell' trip from Paris to Geneva loco hauled via the classic route (only London - Paris had to be by high speed train). Paris Bercy to Lyon was a BB7200 + Corail on the traditional 'Ligne Imperiale' via Dijon and Lyon - Geneve was BB22200 + Corail.

As has been noted, both Paris - Lyon routes are pleasant with traditional scenery on view, but not necessarily 'scenic' in the Switzerland or Scottish Highlands sense of the word. Nevertheless the Ligne Imperiale is the nice route simply because the scenery passes the window more slowly and you see more of the original railway facilities, eg the extensive station at Les Laumes Alesia where large facilities were provided because the railway then climbs the severely graded 'Blaisy incline' up to Blaisy Bas summit tunnel.

As has been said already, sadly I think it is now too late for locos on Bercy - Lyon. As it stands, what might be termed the 'Rhone Alpes triangle' (Lyon - Geneve - Chambery - Valance) is still something of a hotbed of loco + corail - but again as already noted this may not survive the December timetable change.

For railway interest I recommend staying in Chambery not Annecy. For similar reasons if you want to view freight, stop over for a day / night at Dijon, and visit Amberieu

 

[route101]

I used the Portsmouth to Caen ferry last year. There was only a handful of foot passengers at passport control and through within minutes. I walked to the village centre and caught the bus there.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

From Annecy there are through TER services to Valence. These call at the TGV station where you can pick up a fast Montpellier service or alternatively continue to the Ville station for an onward TER. This saves the faffing around in Lyon.

 

[30907]

Essentially, the TGV cuts across the grain of the land while the classic route follows it (though obviously there is a summit tunnel before Dijon!)

From a railway point of view I find the classic lines more interesting, though I've not used the PLM route between Montereau and Montbard.

Last month there were certainly some L/H Dijon-Paris (but it was a Sunday evening....), a fair number south towards Marseille and into the Alps from Lyon (NB if you are in 2nd - 1st isn't always declassified on Corail TERs!).

 

[rvdborgt]

@4. THEse NOMad services-and only to/fro Paris have a ´compulsory´ RES for 1,50-perhaps now 2€

€1.70 now.

and from the community.EUrail I grasp this canNOT be done via that site-only in person locally, I have also forgotten (caught out once by this when it was just introduced) if it can be done via a machine or not.

Reservations for the TERs can also be done at a ticket machine, the "Grandes Lignes" variety, anywhere in France.

 

[Austriantrain]

As has been said already, sadly I think it is now too late for locos on Bercy - Lyon.

If not travelling on Interrail or willing to spend extra, the Ouigo classiques are loco-hauled on that line.