Snow Hill Tunnel London

[Sad Sprinter]

Inspired by the recent thread on the Birmingham tunnel. Why did freight end on this corridor in the 70s? I’m guessing the fact it only really linked onto the Midland was apart of the problem?

 

[Harpo]

Snow Hill also linked to East Anglia via Gospel Oak & Kentish Town. When the East London Line closed, freight which had used the ELL diverted via Snow Hill.

 

[The exile]

Inspired by the recent thread on the Birmingham tunnel. Why did freight end on this corridor in the 70s? I’m guessing the fact it only really linked onto the Midland was apart of the problem?

Fewer and fewer economically viable flows which required its use? Sending freight right through the middle of a city on some of its busiest lines is surely to be avoided if at all possible. I know the lines immediately on either side were nothing like as busy as today - but the inner reaches of the Southern as a whole probably were.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Fewer and fewer economically viable flows which required its use? Sending freight right through the middle of a city on some of its busiest lines is surely to be avoided if at all possible. I know the lines immediately on either side were nothing like as busy as today - but the inner reaches of the Southern as a whole probably were.

THere were weight limitations on Blackfriars Bridge (some one will know I am sure , plus some gauge constraints) - only 73's and 33's were allowed on engineering trains - and like the ex Moorgate branch the OLE had to be both isolated and earthed.

In any case , who would consider the madness of running a possibly slow accelerating and lengthy freight on a very heavily trafficked urban and regional route with 20+ trains per hour in the high peak , with crippling gradients on the "core", and all sorts of constraints on associated routes. A long time ago , a paper excercise was done on Crossrail spoil trains using the the Thameslink core - an useful excercise and well worth doing to bin and bury this idea. ("Snow Hill banker anyone" - )

 

[Magdalia]

A key date was the reorganisation of coal traffic in 1966 as part of the National Freight Plan.

Until 1966 there were large flows of coal via Ferme Park and then the Widened Lines to the Southern Region. By then the traffic was already in decline and, as part of the National Freight Plan, it was concentrated on the Midland route

The East London line also closed to BR traffic in 1966.

One other factor would have been the availability of suitable traction to work the route, the list of locos permitted over Blackfriars Bridge was not very long.

THere were weight limitations on Blackfriars Bridge

In addition to the weight limitations on Blackfriars Bridge there was also a requirement for locos to be tripcock fitted for working on the Widened Lines.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

In addition to the weight limitations on Blackfriars Bridge there was also a requirement for locos to be tripcock fitted for working on the Widened Lines.

Even if they didn’t run on LUL metals?

 

[Haywain]

like the ex Moorgate branch the OLE had to be both isolated and earthed.

That would have been easy as there wasn’t any when freight was using the line.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Even if they didn’t run on LUL metals?

At one time , the Widened lines were part of the Metropolitan Railway and its successor - and until segragation , had "LT" signalling......

That would have been easy as there wasn’t any when freight was using the line.

No - but there was the very odd engineers train from time to time.......

 

[Taunton]

Snow Hill also linked to East Anglia via Gospel Oak & Kentish Town. When the East London Line closed, freight which had used the ELL diverted via Snow Hill.

and also from the GN/ECML main line; there were always more suburban passenger services through Farringdon from the GN lines than from the Midland. The Snow Hill banker was provided by the Eastern Region; it waited in a loco spur just beyond the end of the northbound platform at Farringdon, to push freight up the steep gradient onto Blackfriars. I believe that when dieselised a Class 08 shunter was used, so obviously a slow speed operation.

Coal traffic to London fell right away when the smokeless zone legislation came along in the late 1950s, but beyond the limits into Kent/Surrey/Sussex etc remained for a while longer.

 

[Magdalia]

there were always more suburban passenger services through Farringdon from the GN lines than from the Midland.

Suburban traffic to and from Moorgate did not use the Snow Hill tunnel.

Coal traffic to London fell right away when the smokeless zone legislation came along in the late 1950s

Domestic coal is only a small part. Coal continued to be used after the late 1950s in electricity generation, town gas and many industries. House coal consumption continued with smokeless fuel.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

The Snow Hill banker was provided by the Eastern Region; it waited in a loco spur just beyond the end of the northbound platform at Farringdon, to push freight up the steep gradient onto Blackfriars. I believe that when dieselised a Class 08 shunter was used, so obviously a slow speed operation.

In the early 1960's a good friend was a fireman / second man who used to "work" on the pilot before he progressed to Met Line driver and a fair bit further managerially.

There was very little traffic around even then , so they were bored stiff , but apart from exploring the disused freight complexes down there , he used to take a .22 rifle to work and shoot rats.

 

[Haywain]

Suburban traffic to and from Moorgate did not use the Snow Hill tunnel.

It used the same northern approaches.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Why was the tunnel so steep?

I like to think that the LCDR did away with Ludgate Hill and began declining as soon as they crossed Blackfriars Bridge. They’d have to raise or bend Ludgate Hill but it would be a more gentle gradient. You could then build a ground level terminus under Smithfield.

 

[Taunton]

Suburban traffic to and from Moorgate did not use the Snow Hill tunnel.

No, but the question was whether it was only connected to the Midland route, and the Widened Lines, from which the Snow Hill route branches, was connected and used more from the Great Northern than from the Midland.

 

[Snow1964]

Why was the tunnel so steep?

I like to think that the LCDR did away with Ludgate Hill and began declining as soon as they crossed Blackfriars Bridge. They’d have to raise or bend Ludgate Hill but it would be a more gentle gradient. You could then build a ground level terminus under Smithfield.

Partly history, and partly the requirements of City (of London) Corporation.

Originally line got to Blackfriars (the old bridge where piers had nothing for years, but now northbound platform partly reuses them). Then there was a station at Ludgate Hill (which was hidden behind other buildings for years facing Farringdon Street). The extension crossed Ludgate Hill.

The short version was Ludgate Hill was a processional route (the Lord Mayors procession used it every year in November) so gradients were restricted so horse drawn carriages can easily use it. When the bridge was removed (about 1990) Ludgate Circus was raised about half a metre to clear new line and limit the gradient (which is why the older buildings in the corners are lower). At the same time the bridge over Queen Victoria Street was dropped and tilted and road below lowered (because City Authorities wanted to maintain at least 16'6" clearance). The line basically has to go over one road then have steep gradient to get under next road.

Formally before the lowering under Ludgate Hill, the line had to fall to level of Smithfield Sidings

 

[Taunton]

Why was the tunnel so steep?

I like to think that the LCDR did away with Ludgate Hill and began declining as soon as they crossed Blackfriars Bridge. They’d have to raise or bend Ludgate Hill but it would be a more gentle gradient. You could then build a ground level terminus under Smithfield.

The line had to be squeezed in among a dense city, either crossing over streets or under them. The lowest point was actually north of Farringdon, at Ray Street, where the Widened Lines pass under the Circle Line. This was long a troublesome flooding point after heavy rain as it is below the level of the Thames at high tide, and the last Metropolitan 4-4-0T tank loco was retained, equipped with a steam pump, to come and periodically deal with this. From Farringdon the line southwards continued under streets, then in a short section rose steeply to cross over Fleet Street, and then higher still for shipping clearance at the bridge over the Thames. Thameslink changed this to passing under rather than over Fleet Street, but still then needs a steep gradient up to Blackfriars and the bridge.

John Betjeman in the 1950s persuaded a porter at Holborn Viaduct station to take him down through a side door to the abandoned Snow Hill platforms, which were beneath street level.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

So the LCDR wouldn’t have been able to persuade the City Corporation to raise Ludgate Hill to get underneath it?

 

[Magdalia]

No, but the question was whether it was only connected to the Midland route, and the Widened Lines, from which the Snow Hill route branches, was connected and used more from the Great Northern than from the Midland.

Which I had already pointed out here:

Until 1966 there were large flows of coal via Ferme Park and then the Widened Lines to the Southern Region. By then the traffic was already in decline and, as part of the National Freight Plan, it was concentrated on the Midland route

Parcels trains continued to run from/to the GN via the Widened Lines after 1966.

The 1968 timetable has an 0149 Ferme Park MX/0145 Holloway MO-Clapham Junction returning to Holloway at 0330.

Also 2155 SX Ferme Park/2105 SuO Holloway-London Bridge and 2308 SX/2310 SuO returning to Holloway.

I don't know how long these continued to run, but they had gone by 1972. Given that they were probably worked by BTH Type 1s then I think they must have ended by December 1970 when the last BTH Type 1s were reallocated away from Finsbury Park.

The extension crossed Ludgate Hill.

The short version was Ludgate Hill was a processional route (the Lord Mayors procession used it every year in November) so gradients were restricted so horse drawn carriages can easily use it. When the bridge was removed (about 1990) Ludgate Circus was raised about half a metre to clear new line and limit the gradient (which is why the older buildings in the corners are lower).

There is a picture of the Ludgate Hill bridge here:

Ludgate Hill bridge

Until 1990 this bridge carried the four lines from Blackfriars to Holborn Viaduct. Ludgate Hill station was around the corner to the right, though out of use by many years. The line is now below ground and extensively built over, so that this scene is much different today.

www.flickr.com

Until 1990 this bridge carried the four lines from Blackfriars to Holborn Viaduct. Ludgate Hill station was around the corner to the right, though out of use by many years. The line is now below ground and extensively built over, so that this scene is much different today.

 

[Gloster]

The line had to be squeezed in among a dense city, either crossing over streets or under them. The lowest point was actually north of Farringdon, at Ray Street, where the Widened Lines pass under the Circle Line. This was long a troublesome flooding point after heavy rain as it is below the level of the Thames at high tide, and the last Metropolitan 4-4-0T tank loco was retained, equipped with a steam pump, to come and periodically deal with this. From Farringdon the line southwards continued under streets, then in a short section rose steeply to cross over Fleet Street, and then higher still for shipping clearance at the bridge over the Thames. Thameslink changed this to passing under rather than over Fleet Street, but still then needs a steep gradient up to Blackfriars and the bridge.

John Betjeman in the 1950s persuaded a porter at Holborn Viaduct station to take him down through a side door to the abandoned Snow Hill platforms, which were beneath street level.

I think that the pump was detachable, but as it had been specifically designed for use on the A Class, there was probably no other loco it could be fitted to after 1936. L45 lasted until 1948 and was used on a number of odd duties.

 

[Magdalia]

While looking for something else, I have now identified when the last train ran. There is a report in Railway Observer December 1969 page 418. The last train was the Sunday 2310 London Bridge-Holloway on 23 March 1969.