Of course FPTP delivers complete quality and competence. Oh wait.Well said to both. PR is a totally moronic basket case of a system and when it delivers quality like this I cannot see anybody finding an even vaguely valid argument otherwise
Of course FPTP delivers complete quality and competence. Oh wait.Well said to both. PR is a totally moronic basket case of a system and when it delivers quality like this I cannot see anybody finding an even vaguely valid argument otherwise
I feel sorry for him on those grounds, but, having inherited a poisoned chalice, he hasn't exactly helped himself by burning his bridges, then managing to mock and annoy pretty much all those who have the power to oust him in the space of one day. He doesn't exactly come across as a politically savvy individual - even I know that, if you want to win over someone for the sake of your whole career, you don't call one group of them "deserving of electoral oblivion", say another group has been displaying "political cowardice and hypocrisy", mock the third for only having a small number of parliamentarians, and leave your survival in the hands of someone you had described as "no great loss".I feel a wee bit sorry for Yousaf. Having to follow two extremely charismatic leaders is hard, and when standing to lead the SNP he was seen as the continuity candidate, just when a lot of the SNP were looking for change; result: a narrow victory (52-48%). Then he inherits impossible climate commitments and difficult gender issues while in an alliance with the Greens. No wonder he's struggling.
He's come a long way by being very close to the leaders, now he's on his own.
No it does not, but it is at least a sane easy to use and easy to understand system that voters trust in.Of course FPTP delivers complete quality and competence. Oh wait.
No it does not, but it is at least a sane easy to use and easy to understand system that voters trust in.
Well said to both. PR is a totally moronic basket case of a system and when it delivers quality like this I cannot see anybody finding an even vaguely valid argument otherwise
No it does not, but it is at least a sane easy to use and easy to understand system that voters trust in.
"Do what is right, not what is easy or popular." - Roy T. BennettNo it does not, but it is at least a sane easy to use and easy to understand system that voters trust in.
First minister says he won't resign
Yousaf says he will not resign as first minister of Scotland.
He says he will write to all party leaders later today asking them to meet him.
Indeed - yesterday he cuts the Greens out of power, but today - now there's a no-confidence motion against him - he begs them to vote for him, because "we have so much in common" or somesuch.I think he'll try to get the Greens onside and frame them as 'voting with Tories and unionists to bring down an independence government'
Don't know if it will work- Alba probably see this as their big moment to get influence.
Yousaf certainly had big shoes (heels?!) to fill. Whatever people think about Sturgeon, it was never going to be easy for him to follow. Do I feel sorry for him? Well, no, not really. The Greens would probably have withdrawn from the Bute House Agreement anyway - there is an extraordinary general meeting coming up soon - but, by terminating the Bute House Agreement the way he did, he has cut off his nose to spite his face.I feel sorry for him on those grounds, but, having inherited a poisoned chalice, he hasn't exactly helped himself by burning his bridges, then managing to mock and annoy pretty much all those who have the power to oust him in the space of one day. He doesn't exactly come across as a politically savvy individual - even I know that, if you want to win over someone for the sake of your whole career, you don't call one group of them "deserving of electoral oblivion", say another group has been displaying "political cowardice and hypocrisy", mock the third for only having a small number of parliamentarians, and leave your survival in the hands of someone you had described as "no great loss".
The system we have is easy enough to understand. You vote for a local candidate on one paper and a regional candidate on the other. You don't have to understand the maths behind it. The number of MSPs will roughly be proportional with the number of votes cast. As I said earlier, it's not perfect but it's better than FPTP.No it does not, but it is at least a sane easy to use and easy to understand system that voters trust in.
I don't think he can survive this; the sooner he goes, the better.Meanwhile Yousaf has said he won't resign, so I'm expecting him to resign next week at the latest:
That's if he's not forced out before then.Meanwhile Yousaf has said he won't resign, so I'm expecting him to resign next week at the latest:
Eh? Do voters in Germany not trust in their system? Voters in Ireland? Or New Zealand? To name but a few? As for "sane" a system which gives a party a majority of 66 seats on the basis of 35.2% of the popular vote (Labour in 2005) cannot in any way, in my opinion, be considered "sane". A system which awards 56 seats to one party securing 4.7% of the vote but only one seat to another party securing 12.6% of the vote (SNP and UKIP respectively in 2015) is not a "sane" system. It's a system which is broken and delivers incredibly damaging results. Is it any wonder people feel disenfranchised when the electoral system produces absurd results like that?No it does not, but it is at least a sane easy to use and easy to understand system that voters trust in.
Would you prefer the Scottish Parliament to have an overwhelming majority of SNP MSPs, with very little representation from any other party, despite the SNP only getting a minority of the vote? That is after all what FPTP would have delivered
Unless the leaflet was published by the Greens, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.
But to be fair my comment would still apply even if it was the Greens.
Labour, Conservative and Libdem parties all support the union, but you wouldn't expect them all to hace the same policies, would you? Why then should all independence-supporting parties do the same?The leaflet was not published by the Greens, but by an independence-supporting organisation, as are they.
You're within your rights to disagree with the Greens' policies, but to class them as extremist comes across as being slightly hysterical! Oh, and where does it say that they're opposed to economic growth?Being opposed to economic growth and believing the Cass report should be ignored, among other things, are why I class the Greens as extremist. I note my view of them as such has been disputed (and fair enough), but my comment regarding their Ministerial competence has not!
I think that's a good point in many ways. You can see that in the USA in which the Republicans do not dominate the Presidency in quite the same way that the Tories dominate here, because if you don't like the Republican candidate, you will almost certainly vote Democrat. Of course they also have the electoral college, but that's another discussion...First past the post works fine in a two party system because it’s a relic of the Victorian political system, but Scotland has at least four in play.
You're within your rights to disagree with the Greens' policies, but to class them as extremist comes across as being slightly hysterical! Oh, and where does it say that they're opposed to economic growth?
The NSET does take some significant steps forward, and the positive impact of Greens in government is clear for all to see, but that doesn’t make it a green economic strategy. This is most obvious when looking at the aims of the NSET, which include continued economic growth as a key objective.
Economic growth is an excluded area in the Scottish Greens cooperation agreement with the Scottish Government. This means we have agreed to disagree over its role, which we consider to be a relic of outdated economic thinking that is driving the destruction of the planet.
And this is before we find out if Nicola Sturgeon is getting charged, and before we find out what all the funny goings on in Dundee with people falling out windows and so on were, either of which could turn into a something very negative for them!Labour wants to force an election; a projection gives it 41 seats in place of its existing 22 seats if so. SNP 63->46, Conservative 31->22. So Conservatives don’t want an election, they just want to cause trouble with as much noise as possible.
EDIT LibDem also want an election to go from 4 to 10 seats.
See https://ballotbox.scot/
Believing the Cass report should be ignored because it doesn't say what they want it to say reminds me of a certain other Scottish political party...believing the Cass report should be ignored, among other things, are why I class the Greens as extremist. I note my view of them as such has been disputed (and fair enough), but my comment regarding their Ministerial competence has not!
Oh, and where does it say that they're opposed to economic growth?
As per JamesT's post #49 (thanks!). And I would say that a party whose views on one key area are completely opposite to those of every other party, despite those other party's huge differences on other policies, does indeed warrant them being described as extremists.
One of the key stated aims of the NSET is to “reorient our economy towards wellbeing and fair work, to deliver the higher rates of employment and wage growth, and to significantly reduce structural poverty, particularly child poverty, and improve health, cultural and social outcomes for disadvantaged families and communities.”
This means we have agreed to disagree over its role
Come back Kate Forbes, all is forgivenWords I never thought I would say;
Thank you First Minister Yousaf!
Two incompetent extremists finally ousted from positions of power they should never, ever have occupied; Proponents of Proportional Representation please take note.
Even this would leave the SNP as remaining the largest party at Holyrood - Alex Salmond's legacy. Even polls pointing to the SNP retaining just 18 MPs at Westminster is more than they ever had pre-2015 - Nicola Sturgeon's legacy.Labour wants to force an election; a projection gives it 41 seats in place of its existing 22 seats if so. SNP 63->46, Conservative 31->22. So Conservatives don’t want an election, they just want to cause trouble with as much noise as possible.
EDIT LibDem also want an election to go from 4 to 10 seats.
See https://ballotbox.scot/
Labour however need to realise that under FPTP, they have zero power for the majority of the time and FPTP heavily favours the Tories (as the main divide in England, at least, is between the Tories and the non-Tory parties, meaning the Tory vote is often united while the non-Tory vote is split).The discussion about electoral systems is interesting, but the truth is they all have pros and cons. FPTP generally delivered a clear result which allows for a government to last a full term, but the ‘winner takes all’ nature of the system leaves many feeling they don’t have a voice. Even at constituency level, many MPs don’t even have the support of a majority of voters. PR is clearly fairer, but often ends in coalition where a small party with limited support can end up with a disproportionately loud voice - aka the greens in Scotland. The political reality is that no government is likely to rip up the system that they just won an election under.
Mr Salmond suggested Alba could support Humza Yousaf in a confidence vote if the SNP co-operated to maximise the number of pro-independence parliamentarians.
A source close to Mr Yousaf said the SNP leader would not agree to such a deal at Westminster or Holyrood.
"An electoral pact with Alba is a fantasy," said the source.
An Alba party source later suggested such a pact was only one of a range of options that might be acceptable to win its support.
But the SNP MP for Glasgow South, Stewart McDonald, said a deal with Mr Salmond "would go down like a bucket of cold sick with voters and be met with horror in European capitals" because the former first minister used to host a show on a TV channel funded by Vladimir Putin's Russia.The current first minister is fighting for his political future after ejecting the Scottish Greens from his government.
He faces confidence votes in his government and his leadership, which could come as soon as Wednesday.
The SNP has 63 seats in the Scottish Parliament while the opposition parties have 65, meaning Mr Yousaf would be defeated if the Conservatives, Labour, the Liberal Democrats, the Greens, and the sole Alba MSP, Ash Regan, all voted against him.
There is no constitutional requirement for Mr Yousaf to resign if he loses a personal confidence vote but the political pressure to do so would almost certainly be irresistible.
Former SNP Westminster leader Ian Blackford apologises to the Scottish Greens
“I apologise for what has happened this week, it could have happened in a different way”
Loading…
twitter.com
Would it have though? The Greens would've gone ahead with a vote on whether or not to ditch the agreement and who knows what the outcome would've been.
Humza Yousaf has written to Scotland’s opposition parties asking them to find “common ground” ahead of confidence votes in his leadership.