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Solving the Valley lines bottleneck at Cardiff Central?

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DPWH

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How many coaches can platform 0 take now? By Google maps it looks like it could be extended to take another 2 coaches. But ultimately the main station building is in the way to the east and the River Taff in the way to the west. I guess you could extend the bridge north but that would be expensive.
 
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daodao

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The bridge at Queen Street you mean?

I was looking at this the other day and wondering if because there are now four through platforms at Queen Street should the bridge have four tracks given that there are four tracks directly to the north (at the moment four tracks become two to cross the bridge then become four in the station) however I can't see a way to increase capacity between Queen Street and Central - that surely is the bottle neck and unless that gets solved there's no point in sorting the bridge?*

* Unless the Welsh Govt pulls there finger out and the Metro becomes a reality and trains start/terminate at Queen Street or we get an expanded network in the Bay with through trains from the Valleys?

Cardiff Central to Queen Street should be able to cope with 12 trains per hour. The number of trains on this section could be reduced in busier periods by running some fast trains to/from the Taff Vale line via the City Line from Radyr, returning via Cathays, and vice versa.

Many years ago, there used to be 2 bridges across Newport Road, with the easternmost one used by the Rhymney and Cardiff Railway services to Cardiff Parade railway station (closed 1928 when passenger services were diverted to Queen St) and onto the Cardiff Docks.
 

MarkyT

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Cardiff Central to Queen Street should be able to cope with 12 trains per hour. The number of trains on this section could be reduced in busier periods by running some fast trains to/from the Taff Vale line via the City Line from Radyr, returning via Cathays, and vice versa.

With conventional colour light signalling, a mixture of 8 and 12 coach trains, and its flat junctions at Blackfriars, Thameslink in London achieves up to 16 trains per hour today on a single pair of tracks. With ETCS and ATO, up to 24 tph are planned in future on Thameslink and on the LUL subsurface lines (Circle, District, Metropolitan, H&C) LULs future signalling is claimed to be able to deliver over 30 tph through the complex inner circle network, with all its flat junctions. It is a mystery why capacity through the 'Valley Lines Core' is so constrained comparatively, considering that the local trains are typically shorter, even, than London's deep level tube trains, some of which are running at up to 33 tph on the Victoria Line. Clearly signalling in Cardiff is not optimised for capacity today. ISTR the 'home signal' overlap at Central for trains coming down the bank from Queen St. was extraordinarily long, extending at least part of the way along the one platform available for trains from that direction, and that meant trains would have to wait at the top of the hill before approaching a clear platform. Applied during the 1960s resignalling, the purpose of that exceptional safety measure was to protect passenger trains loading at Central from heavily loaded unfitted and partially fitted goods trains descending the hill behind them. With the remaining freight on the route now fully fitted, I expect the replacement signalling will be better for capacity than this, and there will be two platforms available to accept down trains in the future as well. In the up direction (towards Queen St.) one platform will have to suffice, but traditionally permissive working was always employed there to keep things moving. A train could enter the platform whilst the previous one was departing. This was a sensible use of the long platform considering trains are relatively short, and particularly useful for trains entering service from the depot which could be brought out empty behind trains already in service. Today such methods are frowned on using permissive signals, but the functionality can be replicated using mid-platform signals, as implemented today on Thameslink. An ETCS overlay, as being built for Thameslink, could allow an even greater throughput. With a new fleet planned for the Valleys and new computer based signalling about to be commissioned, a limited ETCS/ATO overlay to vastly improve capacity and performance through this important corridor should be possible.
 
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gareth950

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So for the next 5 consecutive weekends (inc. this one) there are blockades between Central and Queen St and no VOG or Barry/Penarth services all weekend this weekend, Sunday 16th Oct, Sat 22nd - Sun 23rd Oct, Sat 29th - Sun 30th Oct and Sun 6th November. And then there's the blockade between Central and Queen St and on the Barry/VOG lines and up to Pontypridd on 27th - 28th December.

RTT has the first platform 8 services as running on Monday 2nd January which are Barry Island services starting and terminating in and out of Platform 8. Interestingly also on this date there are semi-fast VOG services running non-stop Central to Barry, then calling at Rhoose, Llantwit Major and Bridgend. But these are West Wales SWML services that are diverted via the VOG, but I think this is the first time diverted SWML services via VOG have called at any VOG stations en-route? It's a shame that there isn't the capacity to run semi-fasts in this pattern to Bridgend via the VOG in the normal timetable, as peak time VOG trains are usually full and standing to/from Barry.

Does anyone know also if there are any major infrastructure improvements going on at Cogan junction? There must be, as Barry and Penarth services would still be able to run via the Penarth curve up to Radyr over the next 5 weekends if it was just the platform 8 track and signalling work happening at Central. Instead all Barry, VOG and Penarth services are bustituted for the next 5 weekends.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The bridge at Queen Street you mean?

I was looking at this the other day and wondering if because there are now four through platforms at Queen Street should the bridge have four tracks given that there are four tracks directly to the north (at the moment four tracks become two to cross the bridge then become four in the station) however I can't see a way to increase capacity between Queen Street and Central - that surely is the bottle neck and unless that gets solved there's no point in sorting the bridge?*

* Unless the Welsh Govt pulls there finger out and the Metro becomes a reality and trains start/terminate at Queen Street or we get an expanded network in the Bay with through trains from the Valleys?

Yes, it would be logical to four-track the Newport Rd bridge, as it does make the extra platforms at Queen St seem a bit surplus to requirements. Observing it from a layman's position when crossing the bridge, it certainly looks like there is room to widen it, whether that's the reality though in technical terms is a different matter. At least some of Dumfries Place car park would need to be demolished.

The track could also be four tracked between Central and Queen St if the Eversheds offices were demolished along with 3 Callaghan Square. The Eversheds offices and it's rear car park were built within touching distance of the railway, It's shocking it was allowed to be built that close.
For non-locals, just put 'Callaghan Square, Cardiff' into Google Maps, click on Google Earth and zoom in.
It's an impossibility that these offices would be demolished though as they are in the WG's 'Enterprise Zone' in this area, even though it's in the economic interest of Cardiff and the Valleys for the bottleneck between Queen St and Central to be dealt with.
 
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headshot119

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With conventional colour light signalling, a mixture of 8 and 12 coach trains, and its flat junctions at Blackfriars, Thameslink in London achieves up to 16 trains per hour today on a single pair of tracks. With ETCS and ATO, up to 24 tph are planned in future on Thameslink and on the LUL subsurface lines (Circle, District, Metropolitan, H&C) LULs future signalling is claimed to be able to deliver over 30 tph through the complex inner circle network, with all its flat junctions. It is a mystery why capacity through the 'Valley Lines Core' is so constrained comparatively, considering that the local trains are typically shorter, even, than London's deep level tube trains, some of which are running at up to 33 tph on the Victoria Line. Clearly signalling in Cardiff is not optimised for capacity today. ISTR the 'home signal' overlap at Central for trains coming down the bank from Queen St. was extraordinarily long, extending at least part of the way along the one platform available for trains from that direction, and that meant trains would have to wait at the top of the hill before approaching a clear platform. Applied during the 1960s resignalling, the purpose of that exceptional safety measure was to protect passenger trains loading at Central from heavily loaded unfitted and partially fitted goods trains descending the hill behind them. With the remaining freight on the route now fully fitted, I expect the replacement signalling will be better for capacity than this, and there will be two platforms available to accept down trains in the future as well. In the up direction (towards Queen St.) one platform will have to suffice, but traditionally permissive working was always employed there to keep things moving. A train could enter the platform whilst the previous one was departing. This was a sensible use of the long platform considering trains are relatively short, and particularly useful for trains entering service from the depot which could be brought out empty behind trains already in service. Today such methods are frowned on using permissive signals, but the functionality can be replicated using mid-platform signals, as implemented today on Thameslink. An ETCS overlay, as being built for Thameslink, could allow an even greater throughput. With a new fleet planned for the Valleys and new computer based signalling about to be commissioned, a limited ETCS/ATO overlay to vastly improve capacity and performance through this important corridor should be possible.

Whist Cardiff PSB still controlled the whole area, a warner route was available which meant the occupancy of Cardiff Central platform 7 didn't matter in terms of the overlap. The layout around Cardiff Central was actually very flexible when it came to overlaps.

So for the next 5 consecutive weekends (inc. this one) there are blockades between Central and Queen St and no VOG or Barry/Penarth services all weekend this weekend, Sunday 16th Oct, Sat 22nd - Sun 23rd Oct, Sat 29th - Sun 30th Oct and Sun 6th November. And then there's the blockade between Central and Queen St and on the Barry/VOG lines and up to Pontypridd on 27th - 28th December.

RTT has the first platform 8 services as running on Monday 2nd January which are Barry Island services starting and terminating in and out of Platform 8. Interestingly also on this date there are semi-fast VOG services running non-stop Central to Barry, then calling at Rhoose, Llantwit Major and Bridgend. But these are West Wales SWML services that are diverted via the VOG, but I think this is the first time diverted SWML services via VOG have called at any VOG stations en-route? It's a shame that there isn't the capacity to run semi-fasts in this pattern to Bridgend via the VOG in the normal timetable, as peak time VOG trains are usually full and standing to/from Barry.

Does anyone know also if there are any major infrastructure improvements going on at Cogan junction? There must be, as Barry and Penarth services would still be able to run via the Penarth curve up to Radyr over the next 5 weekends if it was just the platform 8 track and signalling work happening at Central. Instead all Barry, VOG and Penarth services are bustituted for the next 5 weekends.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Yes, it would be logical to four-track the Newport Rd bridge, as it does make the extra platforms at Queen St seem a bit surplus to requirements. Observing it from a layman's position when crossing the bridge, it certainly looks like there is room to widen it, whether that's the reality though in technical terms is a different matter. At least some of Dumfries Place car park would need to be demolished.

The track could also be four tracked between Central and Queen St if the Eversheds offices were demolished along with 3 Callaghan Square. The Eversheds offices and it's rear car park were built within touching distance of the railway, It's shocking it was allowed to be built that close.
For non-locals, just put 'Callaghan Square, Cardiff' into Google Maps, click on Google Earth and zoom in.
It's an impossibility that these offices would be demolished though as they are in the WG's 'Enterprise Zone' in this area, even though it's in the economic interest of Cardiff and the Valleys for the bottleneck between Queen St and Central to be dealt with.

The last lot of diverts just recently had diverted trains calling at Barry, as they replaced what are normally a Barry Island service, and a bridgend service.


The new platform allocations when platform 8 opens seems to be :-

Platform 6 - Northbound Valley Lines Services
Platform 7 - Penarth and Radyr via the City Line (Terminating trains from Treherbert)
Platform 8 - Barry Island and Bridgend.
 
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MarkyT

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Yes, it would be logical to four-track the Newport Rd bridge, as it does make the extra platforms at Queen St seem a bit surplus to requirements. Observing it from a layman's position when crossing the bridge, it certainly looks like there is room to widen it, whether that's the reality though in technical terms is a different matter. At least some of Dumfries Place car park would need to be demolished.

One extra track on an extra span would be enough over Newport Road, to the east of the existing double track bridge, then simultaneous arrivals could take place from Caerphilly and Pontypridd.

The track could also be four tracked between Central and Queen St.

I think that's overkill. A lot more could be squeezed out of the double track with high density modern signalling as applied in London. Why not in the capital of Wales too?

See attached for a four platform twin island layout for Queen Street with the additional bridge and track I suggested around the east of the station. I've cheekily added an extra station on the Cardiff Bay branch at the top end of Bute Street. The extended double track there would be to hold a train waiting to enter the single line clear of Queen Street station. The Cardiff Bay treain would not terminate at Queen St in my plan but would continue on to and from the Caerphilly direction, using some of the capacity created by the junction improvement.
 

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PHILIPE

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SWML trains, ATW Manchester to West Wales have run quite often via VOG at weekends calling at Barry, Rhoose and Llanwit Major in lieu of the normal service and when SWML blocked. Have travelled on one and passengers travelling in 175 rather than a Pacer.
I remember the former Newport Rd bridge being replaced by the current one in the late 70s because there was no need for a 4 track bridge:p:p
 
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The track could also be four tracked between Central and Queen St if the Eversheds offices were demolished along with 3 Callaghan Square. The Eversheds offices and it's rear car park were built within touching distance of the railway, It's shocking it was allowed to be built that close.
For non-locals, just put 'Callaghan Square, Cardiff' into Google Maps, click on Google Earth and zoom in.
It's an impossibility that these offices would be demolished though as they are in the WG's 'Enterprise Zone' in this area, even though it's in the economic interest of Cardiff and the Valleys for the bottleneck between Queen St and Central to be dealt with.

I'm glad you acknowledge that it won't happen - it won't.

I agree the area should have been protected, but it wasn't.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
See attached for a four platform twin island layout for Queen Street with the additional bridge and track I suggested around the east of the station. I've cheekily added an extra station on the Cardiff Bay branch at the top end of Bute Street. The extended double track there would be to hold a train waiting to enter the single line clear of Queen Street station. The Cardiff Bay treain would not terminate at Queen St in my plan but would continue on to and from the Caerphilly direction, using some of the capacity created by the junction improvement.

Interesting concept. In my head I've never been able to work out what to do with the Bay Line - either by extending it in the south or to find a natural fit into the rest of the timetable/route planning.

In your plan/idea would all your trains from the Bay carry on to Caerphilly (or elsewhere in the Valleys) or would you retain a few that stop in Queen Street (at the current platform 1)?

Do you think Caerphilly residents would be put out by not having a direct train to Central?
 

MarkyT

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In your plan/idea would all your trains from the Bay carry on to Caerphilly (or elsewhere in the Valleys) or would you retain a few that stop in Queen Street (at the current platform 1)?

All Bay trains would work through to and from the Caerphilly / Coryton line. Platform #1 would be extended round the east of the station via the new bridge span. I've shown a reversing facility in #3, mainly so a train can get to between the branch and the depot at start and end of service or if they need to swap a unit during the day.

Do you think Caerphilly residents would be put out by not having a direct train to Central?

I'd only have some of the Caerphilly trains go to the Bay, or perhaps the whole of the Coryton service as an alternative. Either way, Caerphilly people would still be able to get directly to Central.

I'm struggling to see the point of the new platform on the west side of the station (#5?). Will this be used predominantly for trains terminating from Central?
 

PHILIPE

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I'll put the record straight to start with re Cardiff Bay services. They used to run to and from Caerphilly or Coryton but were made self contained for a reason which was to avoid crossing movements across the throat. Any problems with the number of tracks over Newport Rd bridge would be purely performance and not signalling or Timetable issues. It will be seen from the Timetable that trains have a 5 minute headway between each other and that they run to or from the Taff or the Rhymney routes alternately. Where delays used to occur at Queen St was down trains awaiting a platform but this was dealt with a couple of years ago with the introduction of two new through platforms thus allowing a train to run straight into a vacant platform without having to held outside. Queen St was made permissive in the early 90s with altered signalling, but after privatisation there was a case of a unit running into the rear of an HST at Newton Abbot while under permissive working. Following this, Railtrack carried out a review at all locations where permissive working was authorised and identify locations where it should be abolished (unofficially, there may have been targets) and Cardiff Queen St found the list. Eventually, for the benefit of up trains a new signal was installed on the approach to the station to speed thongs up,
Somebody thought some body should be financially re-imbursed for the cost of re-signalling to allow permissive working but due to privatisation nobody knew who should claim as BR no longer existed.
I haven't yet studied platform arrangements in any real detail at Cardiff Central following the Xmas/NewYear work but it appears some Down Valley trains will use Platform 8 . Platform 7 bi-directional will take both Up and Down trains and Platform 6 Up trains. I can see nothing running from the East into 0,1 or 2 platforms, down terminating trains (mostly GWR & Ebbw Vales) going down to the West and crossing over as now. I don't really think it is really timetabled practical for such movements, but the option is there if required.

EDIT - Just looked at Central on RTT for 04/01/17 and Platform 7 Down trains only apart from early morning variations. Throughout day, all Up trains via 6
 
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daodao

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I'll put the record straight to start with re Cardiff Bay services. They used to run to and from Caerphilly or Coryton but were made self contained for a reason which was to avoid crossing movements across the throat. Any problems with the number of tracks over Newport Rd bridge would be purely performance and not signalling or Timetable issues. It will be seen from the Timetable that trains have a 5 minute headway between each other and that they run to or from the Taff or the Rhymney routes alternately. Where delays used to occur at Queen St was down trains awaiting a platform but this was dealt with a couple of years ago with the introduction of two new through platforms thus allowing a train to run straight into a vacant platform without having to held outside. Queen St was made permissive in the early 90s with altered signalling, but after privatisation there was a case of a unit running into the rear of an HST at Newton Abbot while under permissive working. Following this, Railtrack carried out a review at all locations where permissive working was authorised and identify locations where it should be abolished (unofficially, there may have been targets) and Cardiff Queen St found the list. Eventually, for the benefit of up trains a new signal was installed on the approach to the station to speed thongs up,
Somebody thought some body should be financially re-imbursed for the cost of re-signalling to allow permissive working but due to privatisation nobody knew who should claim as BR no longer existed.
I haven't yet studied platform arrangements in any real detail at Cardiff Central following the Xmas/NewYear work but it appears some Down Valley trains will use Platform 8 . Platform 7 bi-directional will take both Up and Down trains and Platform 6 Up trains. I can see nothing running from the East into 0,1 or 2 platforms, down terminating trains (mostly GWR & Ebbw Vales) going down to the West and crossing over as now. I don't really think it is really timetabled practical for such movements, but the option is there if required.

EDIT - Just looked at Central on RTT for 04/01/17 and Platform 7 Down trains only apart from early morning variations. Throughout day, all Up trains via 6

When I lived in Whitchurch, it used to be very inconvenient to have to change at both Queen St & Central if I wished to make a connection to a mainline train. It is better that the service to Cardiff Bute Rd is a self-contained shuttle from Queen St, as at present.
 
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I'm struggling to see the point of the new platform on the west side of the station (#5?). Will this be used predominantly for trains terminating from Central?

Do you mean in your plan you cant see the point or find a use for platform 5?

Platform five is up and running and has been for well over a year now.

4 and 5 take all the north bound trains from Central - whilst no two trains should ever (in theory) be using 4 and 5 simultaneously, due to there only being one north bound track entering and leaving the station, it gives a huge amount of extra platform room.

Ditto platforms 2 and 3.
 

gareth950

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Do you mean in your plan you cant see the point or find a use for platform 5?

Platform five is up and running and has been for well over a year now.

4 and 5 take all the north bound trains from Central - whilst no two trains should ever (in theory) be using 4 and 5 simultaneously, due to there only being one north bound track entering and leaving the station, it gives a huge amount of extra platform room.

Ditto platforms 2 and 3.

It does happen during disruprtion though and it does help to keep trains running through the station more smoothly rather than holding them outside.
 

MarkyT

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Do you mean in your plan you cant see the point or find a use for platform 5?

Yes that's right with #3 and #4 becoming the up platforms, #3 being the 'right turn lane' for Caerphilly, #4 being for Pontypridd.

Platform five is up and running and has been for well over a year now.

Thanks I wasn't aware. the NRE map is out of date and I'd not checked the sectional appendix.

4 and 5 take all the north bound trains from Central - whilst no two trains should ever (in theory) be using 4 and 5 simultaneously, due to there only being one north bound track entering and leaving the station, it gives a huge amount of extra platform room.

That's understood. I was achieving similar but all moved over one track to the east with two directional islands. Northbound I guess the island arrangement doesn't matter if each of #4 and #5 can be dedicated to Caerphilly and Pontypridd respectively, and passengers can change between trains at the same platform at Central (or across the same island in the future). The lack of a same or cross platform interchange at Queen St will become more inconvenient in the Southbound direction however once the extra platform at Central is in use with more subway transfers being necessary. If a new down island can't be afforded, then the simultaneous arrival and departure features of my 3 track bridge might be achieved by a different layout as attached. Note on platform #3 I've moved the signal back so there's a clear overlap, hence a Caerphilly train can always enter the platform from the south at the same time as Pontypridd train is entering #3 from the north.
 

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krus_aragon

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One observation about your planned layout, MarkyT: as you have dedicated platforms for southbound ex-Pontypridd and ex-Caerphilly trains, it wouldn't be possible to rearrange services that arrive from Pontypridd in the wrong order due to disruption by diverting one to another platform. (I have the impression that is one of the key advantages of the layout implemented.)
 

gareth950

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So RTT has updated the platform allocations for January and it seems only Penarth services will be using platform 8 at Central with all other down valleys services still being routed through P7.
It's almost as if only Penarth services with be using P8 as a token gesture. Remind me why so much money was spent on an extra platform again?

Yes, I know it will help during disruption but for only one regular down service to be using it seems a waste.
 

krus_aragon

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I'm out of the area these days, so could you remind me: has the loop at Cogan Jn been built yet? That could influence platforming decisions.
 
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So RTT has updated the platform allocations for January and it seems only Penarth services will be using platform 8 at Central with all other down valleys services still being routed through P7.
It's almost as if only Penarth services with be using P8 as a token gesture. Remind me why so much money was spent on an extra platform again?

Yes, I know it will help during disruption but for only one regular down service to be using it seems a waste.

It would seem that some trains to Penarth will still leave from platform 7 - the 08:16 for example. I've also spotted the 09:25 to Barry departs from Platform 8 too.

Very odd - I don't think all the correct info is uploaded yet.
 
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krus_aragon

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Cohan junction had had loops for many many years!

Then I suppose it must now be many years since I moved from Cardiff! :P Thanks.

That won't be the reason for odd (planned) usage of P8. Perhaps it's a little early to read too much into January's platform allocations anyhow.
 

WelshBluebird

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To be fair, isn't one of the main reasons behind P8 is for redundancy? So in cases of delays a service won't have to wait for P6 or P7 to be free.
 

Parallel

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There is also a train to Penarth every 15 minutes though most of the day, so it leaves Platform 8 getting four trains an hour, and Platform 7 will have four towards Barry, two towards Ninian Park and two terminating from Treherbert, totalling 8.

Obviously we do need to see if plans change nearer the time, but IMO the bottleneck between the two stations won't truly be sorted unless somehow they lay another two lines between Central and Queen St.
 
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There is also a train to Penarth every 15 minutes though most of the day, so it leaves Platform 8 getting four trains an hour, and Platform 7 will have four towards Barry, two towards Ninian Park and two terminating from Treherbert, totalling 8.

Obviously we do need to see if plans change nearer the time, but IMO the bottleneck between the two stations won't truly be sorted unless somehow they lay another two lines between Central and Queen St.

RTT suggest that all trains to Penarth will leave from platform 8 along with one or two Barry Island trains throughout the day.

Having taken another look at the platform this morning it seems that the signal and stop marker is at the far west (so river end) of the platform meaning that the trains will stop nowhere near the entrance to the platform - helpful or what!
 

gareth950

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There is also a train to Penarth every 15 minutes though most of the day, so it leaves Platform 8 getting four trains an hour, and Platform 7 will have four towards Barry, two towards Ninian Park and two terminating from Treherbert, totalling 8.

Obviously we do need to see if plans change nearer the time, but IMO the bottleneck between the two stations won't truly be sorted unless somehow they lay another two lines between Central and Queen St.

Incidentally I was reading a Network Rail report from 2007/08 last night about the CASR and options were laid out for increasing frequencies up the valleys and solving the 'bottleneck' (as it was called) north of Queen St caused by the bridge over Newport Rd.
A proposal to have at least one more track span over the bridge were put forward to take place as part of CASR and that a land compulsory purchase order would be needed to widen the bridge. Obviously that hasn't happened and I guess unless it's done as part of valleys electrification / light rail conversion it may never happen.
 
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PHILIPE

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Incidentally I was reading a Network Rail report from 2007/08 last night about the CASR and options were laid out for increasing frequencies up the valleys and solving the 'bottleneck' (as it was called) north of Queen St caused by the bridge over Newport Rd.
A proposal to have at least one more track span over the bridge were put forward to take place as part of CASR and that a land compulsory purchase order would be needed to widen the bridge. Obviously that hasn't happened and I guess unless it's done as part of valleys electrification / light rail conversion it may never happen.

There's not really a case for widening the bridge. Each train has it's headway and they leave and arrive at 5 minute intervals. The additional platforms at Queen St are there to speed trains up arriving at Queen St giving them the option of 2 platforms in each direction instead of 1 and avoiding having to wait at the signal outside.
 

Envoy

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Trains coming from Radyr via the City Line have always been held at a signal just before crossing the Taff. I wonder if they will get a clear run once the changes have taken place?

Talk is of a tram or tram/train system for the valley lines north of Cardiff. The Vale of Glam Coast Line would remain as a ‘normal’ railway as it is also used as a diversion route for the main line and may even get 25Kv electrification. That being so, it would be a great loss have the through links between valleys and coast broken with one almighty mess in Cardiff with two different systems.

The Metro maps also show a re-built railway linking Caerphilly with Newport. Now, obviously the Ebbw Vale Line would have to be 25Kv as the trains have to use the main line. To get from Caerphilly to Newport involves using a section of the Ebbw Vale Line - hence, we also would have a conflict of systems at Caerphilly! (The line is still in place from Newport to Machen Quarry).

It seems to me that more capacity is needed for mainline trains entering Cardiff from the east as they are often held by Bute Street bridge.
 
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gareth950

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There's not really a case for widening the bridge. Each train has it's headway and they leave and arrive at 5 minute intervals. The additional platforms at Queen St are there to speed trains up arriving at Queen St giving them the option of 2 platforms in each direction instead of 1 and avoiding having to wait at the signal outside.

It still happens though. I'm regularly on trains held at signals waiting to enter Queen St from the north (from Cathays), or to enter Central from the west (from Barry). Hold ups of up to 10 minutes haven't been unusual in the last few weeks, esp. when waiting to enter Central. I was held for 15 minutes waiting to enter Queen St one evening last week.

Once CASR is commissioned 16tph (+1 freight path) rather than the current 12tph will be able to run between Central and Queen St so that 5 minute interval could potentially be brought down in the near future?
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Trains coming from Radyr via the City Line have always been held at a signal just before crossing the Taff. I wonder if they will get a clear run once the changes have taken place?
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It seems to me that more capacity is needed for mainline trains entering Cardiff from the east as they are often held by Bute Street bridge.

I'd highly recommend buying this month's issue of Modern Railways as it has a 6 page feature on the commissioning of CASR over the holiday period and all the improvements it hopefully will bring (an end to frequent signal failures I hope is one of them!). Unfortunately Plat 4 won't be linked up to Queen St until next March.
 
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Llanigraham

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The Metro maps also show a re-built railway linking Caerphilly with Newport. Now, obviously the Ebbw Vale Line would have to be 25Kv as the trains have to use the main line. To get from Caerphilly to Newport involves using a section of the Ebbw Vale Line - hence, we also would have a conflict of systems at Caerphilly! (The line is still in place from Newport to Machen Quarry).

It seems to me that more capacity is needed for mainline trains entering Cardiff from the east as they are often held by Bute Street bridge.

Err!
Diesels can and do run under the wires.
How do you think the Cambrian trains get into Wolverhampton and Birmingham New St?
 

Envoy

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Err!
Diesels can and do run under the wires.
How do you think the Cambrian trains get into Wolverhampton and Birmingham New St?

Everything I have read suggests that the intention is to have an all electric system for the Valleys.

If a tram/tram train system is adopted for the valleys north of Cardiff, it would also mean an end to the City Line - which at present almost encircles Cardiff linking Radyr with Coryton via Central & Queen Street. (The eastern section would be trams whilst the western section would be ‘normal’ trains as it uses tracks for the VOG Coast route out of Central). Goodness knows what would happen at Radyr where the two systems would meet. One almighty mess?
 

gareth950

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Everything I have read suggests that the intention is to have an all electric system for the Valleys.

That was the plan until 2014 when the Welsh Govt started to dither and change it's mind. Now it looks like the new operators of the Wales & Borders franchise will own and operate the track and infrastructure/signalling north of Queen Street, with Network Rail owning and operating the rest of the current valleys network.

The valley lines as we know them now will be split up between 2 different owners and operators. Potentially a tram / light rail electric system north of Queen St, with heavy rail DMUs continuing elsewhere, esp. if NR eventually decides not to electrify past Cardiff to Swansea.

All very depressing compared to the original vision in 2012 of electrifying every line in the current valleys network and keeping it all as one joined up system.
 
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